Sexless Japan – Really?
Blue on Dec 11 2006 at 12:08 am | Filed under: Japan: Culture
With maid cafes where pretty young girls that ooze submissiveness to their “masters”, and “shuccho health” (出張ヘルス, basically, dial-a-prostitute) and soap-lands (sensual bathing houses with soapy special service) to vending machines for porn, and specialty shops with used high school girl underwear; Japan, at least on the surface appears one of the most sexually proactive nations in the world. Japanese men are as perverted (if not more perverted) than those in other countries, and as for the ladies, on top of being naturally feminine (with petite sexy bodies, skin that doesn’t seem to change complexion from childhood, pretty faces and silky black hair), the women of Japan have no misconceptions about what style – clothes, perfume and make up – makes a man stop in his tracks, and rouse that tingle in his loins.
When interacting with others, sex and everything surrounding it is fair game for a topic of conversation in Japan and, it is certainly not frowned upon by religious groups or society at large as it is in the USA and other countries. When it comes to secreting sexual hormones and sexuality in general, almost nothing is taboo in Japan – until that is, the day one gets married, or so it seems. Indeed in stark sexual contrast, Japan may be suffering from a sexual drought, where being totally open about sex and being sexy in general, doesn’t seem to be converted into the ins-and-outs of baby making when it comes to married couples.
Shown in these statistics, a recent survey by Japan’s health ministry found that as many as one-third of all marriages in Japan are sexless. The problem is now so widespread that the government fears it is a major contributor to the dramatic plunge in Japan’s birthrate (now only 1.28 births per woman). This sexless phenomenon is not only found in those relationships that are plunging down the drain toward divorce, but to the contrary, more and more couples that consider themselves healthily married (and have no intention of separating), have not had sex with each other in the last month or more (the common definition of “sexless” in Japan), with many saying that they have not had sex together in the last 6 months to one year.
According to the most recent survey of 41 nations last October, the average Japanese has intercourse 45 (and according to Bayer Pharmaceuticals as low as 17) times a year, compared with the global average of 103. Japan is repeatedly at the bottom of the list. Last year it trailed Singapore, which was 28 shags a year higher!
The term “sexless”, was first used in Japan in the early 1990s, but now is instantly recognizable to the Japanese as a universally understood concept, and widely discussed in the media. There are books on the subject and thousands websites and heartbreaking blogs discussing sexless Japan, while letters on the subject fill agony columns on “dear doctor”-type sites.
One in five sexless couples say they view sex simply as a nuisance. A small number cite the lack of a private space, because children or elderly parents often sleep just the other side of a paper-thin door, leading many married couples to even sleep in separate rooms. Mitsui Home announced recently in an Asahi Newspaper article, that in 30% of the new houses they build, the couples are asking for 2 “master” bedrooms. This is a shocking statistic, which shows that sexless couples want to continue living their lives together – separately! “We are sort of room-mates rather than a married couple”, one 31-year-old man, who had not had sex with his wife for two years, told the Asahi Shinbun.
There are many other theories about why the Japanese become less inclined to raunchy evenings in the sack together, but likely it is a mixture of some of these:
- Stress of work/life in Japan (maybe the taihen cloud?)
- Lack of understanding, and usage of contraception, especially “the pill” (who wants to use condoms with their wife!?), making sex with your wife viable only when you want to have a baby
- Abundance of 不倫 (furin, or extra-marital) relationships
- More and more Japanese women choosing career over family
- A tendency among Japanese married couples to feel an aversion to sex with their spouse, not because they dislike one another, but rather because they feel that they have more of a sister-brother relationship; the sanctity of which would be destroyed with a repulsive incest-like feeling, by what westerners would consider normal conjugal relations
The last point is an interesting one, as in the past, it has been traditionally Japanese women who complained that they couldn’t see their hubby “as a member of the opposite sex.” But in the last few years, there’s been an exponential increase in men who can’t view their wives as sexual partners either. While it is true that many Japanese married couples seem to be sexless in nature, they key thing to remember is that this certainly does not mean that they lack the desire for sexual fulfillment. While marriage and children may bring on a sex drought in the home, Japanese people who want (and in the case of most men, need) sex do not simply abstain from sex because they cannot see the feminine qualities in their own wife, or the sexual attraction of their hard working husband.
Japanese men love their companies; they live for work, and many don’t even think it is a problem if they don’t have sex with their wives. They have pornography and the sex industry (soap lands, cabaret bars, and dial-a-girl services, and trips to Taiwan) to take care of their needs, but their wives have nowhere to go. They just suffer in silence.. or do they? The divorce rate in Japan has nearly doubled in the past 10 years, with more women blaming their sexually inactive, as opposed to sexually errant, husbands for break-ups. Though they may not be seeking sexual pleasure from their better halves, married Japanese women are seeking intimacy from other sources, leading double lives – being the good mother, while at the same time seeking out “Leroy” the lover, who is always lurking, and ready to fulfill her every desire.
Japan is full of temptation, and it doesn’t matter whether you are a housewife or salary-man, there is plenty of raunchy action waiting out there – if that is what you desire. Furin sites to find a (extra marital) “sex friend” partner are just as rampant in Japan as in other countries, however they are much more widely used by women in Japan to solve their sexless quandaries. For the more conservative ladies, sites like mixi.jp – which are neutrally classed as “social networking” spaces – are abound with profiles (men and women) looking for partners to secretly spruce up their sexless, but otherwise happily married lives.
Many Japanese marriages may be sexless, but this is only a statistic about the state of sex within marriage itself. In fact, there may be a good reason for the sexless condition of marriages here – Are the Japanese getting enough of the good stuff outside their marriages to keep them happy? I certainly think so.
Japanese people will never be sexless as individuals; therefore Japan is not sexless, so don’t let mere statistics confuse the situation!
(If you are married in Japan, or married to a Japanese, let us know what you think of “Sexless Japan” by leaving a comment below!)
Other stippy.com articles possibly of interest:
829 Responses to “Sexless Japan – Really?”
Leave a Reply
| Stippy Friends | |
Fun article! Im curious as to how many times the word “sex” and its derivatives were used
I especially liked the fact that the govt was able to correlate the reduced frequency of sex with the declining birth rate….amazing insight!
Also curious to see a pie chart on those that have sex but not with their spouse!…or one including “self amusement”
I know plenty of foreign men who don’t have Japanese wives, but who have ‘had’ Japanese wives…. The real lonely housewives of Japan are throwing themselves at any willing piece of meat.
Yet every foreign women I know in Japan has given up mostly or completely on cold fish unresponsive Japanese men.
I think there are more and deeper psychological reasons for sexless couples in Japan than this article mentions, with the main issues centering in the men. From what I gather from all my discussions and readings, the (stereo?)typical Japanese man is shy, embarrassed, timid, and doubtful about sex. Their impotence causing low self-esteem turns them to the comfortable and non-demanding fulfillment of porn, hostess bars, etc. thus leaving the door wide open for all the eager single men to whisk their willing wives away for salacious romps.
Japanese men need to stand up and get some balls, then take those balls on home instead of leaving them at work or the hostess bar.
Mmmm, an interesting debate. I’m engaged myself to a Japanese women, but admittedly we have a somewhat lack-luster love life. I’m an American myself, and tend to find the bed-side of a relationship just as important as the emotional side. This time around though, having been with this women for two years, with a bit of distance (she is in Osaka, I was in Akita, now Tokyo) really helped the emotional side develop while the physical side sort of went stale. I’ve had my share of sleepless and frustrated nights with it, and have had the occasional why the hell am I getting married thoughts, as well told the same… but for me, the emotional support truly covers all boundaries and I do think of her as a best friend, thusly I don’t worry about the lack of sex as much. But… I can see why Japanese men cheat, and why there is such an abundance of extra-marital affairs. Almost to the point that it’s accepted as going to happen. The mother-in-law-to-be has even gone so far to say, as long as you don’t go to fuuzoku, it’s acceptable…. Unfortunately the next thing that pops up in my mind is, if it’s ok for me, it’s ok for her…. for as sexless as they say the country might be, people are getting their jazz on elsewhere.. For as conservative as this country supposedly is, they have some pretty hard double standards to get used to.
Robert, funny you mention the “as long as you dont go to fuzoku” thing! I got exactly the same thing from my mother in law. It is exactly like that all women of one generation ago actually expect their husbands to have affairs outside of marriage. It’s really kind of weird hey. I must admit, that I have thought (and had the opportunity) a few times to have some extra-marital fun. When my wife rolls over and says she’s not in the mood for the third week in a row, what else do these girls expect us to do? If they don’t do what we need as men, sometime or another, their will be a need for external procurement, no? I dont think this whole idea is Japan specific either – as many of my friends without Japanese wives experience the same thing!
To continue this discussion a little farther, I recalled a couple of shows that had discussed this.
One was one of the crappier variety specials, which was on I think this last summer. Basically they were comparing percentages and trying to guess which would have a higher percentage. We’re talking banal stuff like, which is higher, the percentage of nurses who marry patients or the percentage of nurses who marry doctors. That sort of stuff. The stuff about extra-marital affairs was interested, in which they said something along the lines of 3 out of 4 couples have extra-marital relations. Interestingly enough, 2 out of 3 OL’s supposedly have intra-company affairs. Anyways, typical Japanese variety crap, but they at least had surveyed a large enough amount of people to be statistically sound.
Show two, which I’m sure some of you have seen, the Sunday night law show at 9 on Ni Tele (I think) with Shinsuke and the Lawyers turned Talent. Usually it has the humdrum shtick of I want a divorce crap, but usually shinsuke talks with the guests and goes ero-kei all the time. One time they had a couple on, don’t remember who, and they had been married for 20 or so years. The husband blatantly said he sleeps around, and has fun. The wife says? It’s ok if the body plays because the heart belongs to me only. Everyone just laughs and all is good.
Lastly, another observation that a website I used to read had posted.
Not my words, but I sure as hell understand where he’s coming from…
When you stop to think about this as well, marriage here in this country is considered something you simply have to do, it’s to have a family, some sort of stable life and kids and continue the line. But you don’t have to take it seriously, you can sleep around, because that’s part of the socially acceptable norm. Flings and sexing around here is borderline “you can’t talk about it or do it” and no one is blatant about it, but everyone is doing it.
It’s actually things like this that make me realize that Japanese people, for all that they are xenophobic, holier-than-thou, conservative, and image conscious, are simply no better than other societies that they think they are.
Yet here I am getting living and working in this country, eventually getting married to a Japanese as well. Is it because deep down I like this constriction? Constricted yet in unbelievable areas full of freedom?
What do you all think?
As a side note, I have lived in Japan for 3 and a half years, but have been studying Japanese and involved with related things for 6 years now.
EDITED by Blue: Robert, I made the quote visable as a quote to differentiate it from your writing. Thanks for the insights!
Yep, heard the “don’t go to sex parlours please” story from a friend who had that from his mum in law. Wow. Though my wife said that one of the neighbours wives doesn’t care if her hubby heads out as at least he is not falling in love! Double wow!
In my humble and not very Christian opinion, I find marriage is a fairly difficult concept to get around. I am happy enough but really suffer under the burden of only being able to look and not touch.
Sex with one partner for the rest of my life is a concept I really find hard to live with in my early 30′s (I may be okay when I hit 50 as things slow down on me). Okay if you made the “perfect” choice, but how many people do you know who have that perfect marriage anywhere on this planet? I know very few that do. At least very few who are not just plain boring people. In fact stats will tell you that 50% end in divorce, so I assume another 25% live on the verge, another 20% like me have ups and downs and the other 5% are the ones described above and those who found that perfect match.
Even with the kids that make marriage so “comlete”, both sides (he and she, though he more than she) have major temptations to go find a bit of nooky on the side. I do/did – I may have stopped that… arrrgh, burden it all seems!
But come on! Sounds like the lads on this post are married to women who have an entirely different culture, language and lifestyle to ourselves. Do we expect to find that perfect harmony and have a perfect sexless marriage? Not really I expect and I’ll take the bumps along the way, even if that means not getting laid with my wife as often as I’d wish. Though I just long for something different (and I know I am not the same).
Even the same-culture marriages in the article reflect the same inevitable urges in their non-Christian way of life. We, like our Japanese counterparts, can easily end up the same. There is danger here that people start to believe that EVERY Japanese wife is gagging for it from any stray guy that crosses her path. We need to work out what is urban legend and what is reality here. We all know some shocker stories but that isn’t at all the majority is it?
Anyway, as an aside from my corner, I read an article in some science magazine years ago that tried to tie a theory to the fact that many humans to break up after 6-9 months of dating. I was amazed as that fitted with my general break up point; that point when I started looking at other girls (sorry honey). It all (according to this article) came down to the time span of getting pregnant. If she ain’t getting pregnant, she will start looking for a new partner, as will he. I don’t remember which came first. Interesting theory though that made me out to be more monkey than man and explains my fiscally dangerous trips to seedy strip clubs in Roppongi (in the past, I should add). Though I digress.
Marvin,
Good post, and yes, I think you hit on one thread that does need to be addressed. That is, just because it’s blatant, doesn’t mean every Japanese woman and man is promiscious and horning to get it on. _Unfortunately_ and you have got to admit this, Japanese woman in general just don’t have a good image, I can’t tell you how many people I know think that Japanese women are easy, and that’s coming not only from foreign friends, but Japanese guy friends as well. Places like the meat markets of Roppongi do _not_ help allay this image. I actually can’t stand this image, because truth be told, I’ve never had any luck with woman like I hear other people do (a little whining perhaps? haha) and honestly that’s why I don’t tend to go to Roppongi, because it’s fiscally a waste of time, why the hell do I have to pay a 300% markup for a drink? To be honest we could go on and on about the stereotypes of Roppongi (Next Stippy article?). Anyways, the trick is not to fall into the trap of assuming that, or otherwise you’re going to have a hell of a time with any woman in this country.
Another good point is religion, which, personally, I’m not a devout anything, so I don’t quite have the moral restrictions that others might have, so for me, I’ve found it not wrong, not right, not going to hell or heaven, just a way of living and life and even if I don’t like it, it’s going to happen. I’m only in my late twenties, but I’ve found myself growing more fatalistic and cynical it seems (笑) That being said, while I spent a year of college in Japan, a majority of my education was in good old USA, and even being born and raised Oklahoman, and having gone to a bible belt college, I spent more of my share of weekend nights sleeping in the floor lounge because my christian roomie had “company”
As for the strip bars, and other bars of lesser repute, I will admit, there is sort of the desire to go and see what it’s about. I mean it’s not something I found regularly back home, so there is a curiousity factor, but to be honest, it costs enough to get by, live, and occassionally go out with friends, that I can’t see how people can afford to drop 1~5 man on those “services” for just a few hours or a night. Hell, just wining and dining a regular woman costs too much in this country… (either that or I need a better job!)
Pretty busy at the office today but there are loads of weird things around Japan that make life interesting and you don’t figure out even after years of living here.
Watching a drag queen on telly late last night I suddenly “clicked” and realized why there may be so many drags making their way up the tarento career track. Far more on TV here than back home in my conservative home nation.
The reason (according to my 11pm theory): Kabuki! Work that one out. Pretty simple I reckon.
PS: Yeah, the Pong is a bad trap. Been caught myself there many a time. Still, again, lots of meat market bars back home! Great fun back in the day. Now I’m married and sexless.
Haha, not busy enough at my office for me on my end, for me to be able to get away with write such long ripostes.
Japanese television itself is a phenomenom that is unexplainable, and goes to show you why some things are so screwy in this country I guess. I kinda envy the foriegn talents who make it on, but then again, most of them are their for show and exploited or stereotyped until the fad passes, so ehh. Basically though, if you’ve got enough money, or a stupid enough gimmick you can get on TV easy it seems.
But not to derail the discussion.
Japan is quite an anomaly. They make up almost half of the worlds most shocking and “out there” material (getting kicked in the groin fetish, anyone?), yet are very sexless.
Seeing as Tokyo is the highest populated city, it’s understandable that citizens would be so busy and stressed.
I, being a very non-sexual person, understand what the mean when they say they see their partner as a close friend or family member. They might feel that their emotional connection is fine, so they really might not think too much about a sexual connection.
This is really an intruiging article! More for us Japanophiles to ponder over, I guess.
What a sweet talker you are, Trevor. I have 50 women with bitch slaps in hand waiting for you:
“If they don’t do what we need as men, sometime or another, their will be a need for external procurement, no?” – Trevor
I think I’ve actually stopped talking to friends because they thought it would be funny to show some of Japanese more disgusting fetishes to me and others. Ah college days.
Ahem, Japan is quite an anomaly indeed. I’ve got my own theory, which I’m sure someone said or explained while I was studying Japanese anthropology here in college, but I really believe that this is true to an extension of their conformist society. Think about it, starting in school from an early age we start going group mentality, and once Junior High is hit, it’s pretty much hammered into them, conform, be homogenic, don’t be an individual. From there, an average Japanese person’s only out is their hobby, which, this is generalistic, consists of usually whatever 部活動 (club life) they decide to do. For those who don’t do the club, they tend to find one thing and throw themselves into it. From here is where I think Japanese start to differ from westerners in a way because they seriously, seriously throw themselves into it. Thusly we have anime otaku, game otaku, soccer otaku, train otaku, etc. It gets scary in a way how serious that some people can get. Which, personally, I’ve found makes it harder to try some club life and hobbies at times in this country, Japanese are not one for casual trial’s at times. Anyways, to go onto a tangent, this extends into the adult industry with really really weird fetishes and so-called “mania” Perhaps then finding a way to watch this or go out and fulfill this desire elsewhere keeps things at home happy, because heaven forbid if your wife knew you wanted her to walk around in no underwear in a school girl outfit in public flashing people, or some fetish worse then that. Anyways, I think this is why you can see a totally balanced person at work or school or seems absolutely wonderful, but they have this one thing that they concentrate, get good at, be obsessed with that totally (hopefully) helps them relieve stress. Anyways.. went off on a tangent. That and writing helps me pass time at work, hah.
In a way I’ve sort of realized then why you see men and women look for something new, something to break the hum-drum life of work, go home, do family duties, sleep, rinse and repeat. I myself have a commute of an hour to work (I really need to move into Tokyo) and lately I wish I had something to do or someone to talk to on the train. The wife-to-be is busy working her own job and so mail to her doesn’t really happen so often lately, because she tends to work later then me or be busy with her family.
As for Trevor’s quote
“If they don’t do what we need as men, sometime or another, their will be a need for external procurement, no?” – Trevor
This goes both ways, as it seems to be pretty obvious that some married women are apparently looking outside the home for something other then the emotional support. I wouldn’t have quite worded it that way though.
In a way, Japan is no worse then America or any other westernized country, people will sleep around, cheat, rationalize, and do their own thing. People are just afraid to respect opinions I guess. Just because someone has a mistress or sefure doesn’t mean they are a bad person.
Who knows though, for the time being it makes for great discussion and passing of time at work.
I am very sexless also so Im a bit confused about this article…sometimes I dont even care about the sex/gender of scrubbers I pick up in clubs
Thanks for all the comments people, keep them rolling in. This is one area that I would like more people’s perspective on, as it is kind of hard to ask those around you in your everyday life.
Taxman, you need a careful look at your own sexual preferences before worrying about others’ sexlessness… But please, you go ahead and keep picking up the scrubbers with a bulge down one of their legs and then we will never cross each other’s paths in or around the Roppongi Heartland!
It’s funny that some of you hear the “as long as you don’t go to fuzoku”. I get just the opposite from the wife and mother-in-law. I was actually told by the wife that if I had the urge for some strange, she’d rather have me messing around with a woman that I am paying for, rather a woman that I might develop feelings for. As for me, I enjoy sex with my wife. We have, at least I think so, a pretty adequate sexual relationship. 2-3 time s a week isn’t too shabby. Is it? As for me, I would love to have more. Just not with her. I do very much Love my wife but I would like to go dipping into something different once in a while. I on the other hand, would rather have a furin, than pay for a pro. As bad as this sounds I believe it is safer to find another married woman as a (temporary) lover because both of you have the same thing to loose. I do have married friends that are out and about beating around any bush they can find. I still have yet to act upon my hunger for another but the thought and temptation is always there.
Imagine that, being married for reasons other than slavery to sexual inclination!
Awwww darn, their culture isn’t churning out wage/sex slaves in record numbers, poor multi nationals.
How dare they treat sexual desire like any other consequence of being hairless apes? Slake it safely and move on, kinda like our built in desire to crush enemy skulls with jaw bones and severed limbs.
Less children means more individual attention per child, and on every level that’s a good thing. Japan is taking the opinion that quality trumps quantity when it comes to people, and I couldn’t agree more. There are other species that that the view that more=better ants, bees, fish, are you seeing a pattern?
It’s an adult culture with a clear vision of the capabilities of technology. Thus they see sex much like they see eating, a relic of or biological imperatives. Sure they have a problem, who dosent, but they clearly realize that doing things the old way is not a solution.
This is a teething event, and a problem I hope to one day see in America. But honestly I’m thinking we might not survive into national adulthood. To attack Japanese culture as some do because of this tiny hiccup is short-sighted without rational justification, and totally the typical behavior of the average American.
In short, this is a non problem and its short-term to a thinking man. Yea they’ll have a problem when the leftovers of previous fuck happy generations start needing their bedpan changed, but in time the new trend and numbers will balance out. These people survived and thrived despite nuclear attack, they live in the middle of the ocean, which isn’t exactly known for its uneventful weather, on a tiny island.
Color me crazy but I think they can handle a surplus of old people.
Interesting story, and even more interesting comments.
I would like to add two things: 1) the birth rate has fallen all over the world in first-world countries. Population growth verges between flat (avg. 2 kids per couple) or below replacement (
Good stuff,
Married a Japanese woman about a year and a half ago(together for 4) and man she wants action. We live in SF and I want to move to Japan(she is from Shinjuku(tokyo)) and learn japanese woodworking. My wife will have none of it-we will move to kansas(my family home) before Japan. I have to say Keiko is the best woman I have ever had-I tell I my friends marry a Japanese woman-You will be happy. That being said she won’t deal with my shit, she is just much more sanguine about it all and I love that.
Great blog and I will return to read please keep it up so I can keep reading-I might even show the wife.
Great comments, I have been with my girlfriend here in Japan for nearly 5 years. Of course that means that the marriage pressure is on because she is fastly approaching 25. She has the old thinking that you have to get married by 25 or considered worthless goods. This goes along with the Japanese concept of the Christmas cake, after the 25th, it is garbage. That being said, I am fearful of marriage. Right now we are very sexually active with each other and I have heard so many stories of men marrying Japanese women and then the sex slowly begins to disappear. She has told me about friends who are boyfriend/girlfriend and have already given up having sex. Is marriage going to be that bad? In that case, I want to be unmarried for the rest of my life.
How to deal with a Japanese wife 101 FAQ
(Circa May 26, 2000)
INTRODUCTION
This is a working draft version of the FAQ and has been concocted from various postings on fj.life.in-japan.
Read this FAQ before you go and get romantically/sexually/maritally involved with the female of the species Japanicus Autocentricus, thereby morphing yourself into Husbandus Superfluous.
* * *
I’m going to give you some advice that I wish I had gotten 11 years ago when I married a demure pretty Japanese wife who turned into a genderless piece of a dictative authority figure soon after marriage.
1.1 IS SHE FOR REAL?
Now you asked if she’s for real. Yeah, she’s certainly for real. A marriage for many Japanese isn’t about love. That’s just an Orwellian word that sounds better than the reality. One reality is that she expected to marry a guy just like her pussy-whipped father. The other reality, and the one that finds her living with you in the states, is that she got married to you because of her school girl fantasies of living as a spoiled housewife in a big house in an American suburb with some faceless foreign husband who alternated between Tom Cruise for cute and Harrison Ford for masculinity are not part of the reality she finds herself in.
1.2 LOGIC?
The first rule when dealing with a stereotypical Japanese woman is to throw logic out of the window. The use of Reason alone will get you nowhere my friend! But reason is not the same as communication, so go ahead and talk, rant, tell her how you feel. Just don’t expect any changes right away, because you’re dealing with emotions here and you’re just planting seeds.
Tell her you’ll accomodate and support her in a Japanese way, but that since she decided to marry an American, she has to come halfway to your side, too.
Every marriage comes with a 20 year marital torture guarantee. Don’t think you’re getting out of it. Your ancestors did it for you, now it’s your turn.
1.3 HAVING IT BOTH WAYS
Problem was this… her personality seemed to be very different on her home turf, with her own language. She became testy, sometimes abrasive, and dare I say it, cold and distant.
You might not realize it, but she’s trying to have it both ways: the freedom and individuality of living in America, while simultaneously being treated as a traditional Japanese woman. You need to expose this double standard to her.
2.0 PREGNANCY
Pregnancy has a profound effect on most women’s personality, and things don’t automatically revert to the way they were after birth. You can not fight mother nature, but you can finesse her. The popular myth of course is that cheating men cause marriages to fail, but I think we know this is a load of bull (hint: 2.6 times per week, ladies, and your man will not stray!). So don’t get all guilty.
3.0 WHY PEOPLE DO IT
b) stick it out and try to right the marriage ship. Sounds good on paper, but my hunch is that I’m in for 20 years-plus of absolute marital torture. (I’m not even 30 yet).
I think that a lot of women get married so that they can take you off the market and then get what they really want, which is a baby. Once they have the sprog, the husband then becomes a cash machine and little more. A lot of men, due to what they may feel are chivalrous (or religious) obligations, will try to make this nonsense work and that is what the wife counts on.
Sucker! She already has what she wants, a baby. Then she denies you what you want, which is emotional support, affection and sex. “Oh, you’re always thinking of sex” is something they will throw at you to try to make you feel ashamed.
“There’s more to marriage then just sex.” Horseshit. If there is no sexual attraction, affection or emotional connection, what you are living with is a friend.
Men don’t want to marry “just friends.” And now that she has just become your friend, she is treating you like crap. If a friend to whom you didn’t have a legal contract (marriage certificate) treated you like crap, you would say, “on your bike, mate.” So why put up with it from your wife? And you wouldn’t pay your friend’s bills, right? She is already saying, by being a slob, that she doesn’t care if you walked off a bridge tomorrow. You’re going to accept that? Are you that pussywhipped?
You also didn’t want a kid. Look, I know you like your daughter. That is only natural.
But you have to leave your wife and if you hold on to the child, it will always be a point of contention between you guys and it will give her an excuse to play games with you. And the child will feel perpetually guilty if she sees you two quarreling over her all the time. Moreover, this is complicated by the fact that you guys are straddling two nationalities.
4.0 BOYS BE AMBITIOUS
Be selfish, son. It’s your life. Life is short, so make the best of it. Jettison the bullshit (your wife) and find someone who will appreciate you (given the Draconian divorce laws in California, though, I would recommend that you avoid getting married again. There is nothing in it for men at all). And with your next mate, tell her what it is you expect and if she doesn’t like it then walk.
5.0 READ THE FAQ
I *hope* the guy isn’t really going through that hell…but this is a horrible case of “not reading the FAQ” before he went and got romantically/sexually/maritally involved with the female of the species Japanicus Autocentricus, thereby morphing himself into Husbandus Superfluous.
Fellas, this is why our daddies try (in vain) to tell us to keep it in our pants. Remember: If you can’t keep it there yourself, you run the danger of ending up married to somebody who will keep it there for you.
6.0 PARENTS
No, I am quite certain that there really are such men with such problems, because I have met such men, even just in Fukuyama. One was a Brit withone daughter. One was an American, with one girl and one boy, IIRC, and the other was a Canadian who was married recently and followed his wife to Japan, who got past the honeymoon stage in a hurry.
In every case, the women were living either with their parents (wife of Brit), or in the same town (other two). Guess who the parents sided with, no matter who seemed to be at fault?
7.0 MONEY
The Brit’s wife held down a good steady full time job despite being married with child, and made no secret she did not need her husband for support. The American’s former wife (who also revealed her belief woman should stay at home and watch TV while husband worked and also earned an MBA, after they were married) relied on her parents. The Canadian’s wife, a government worker, simply went back home one day and cut off communication with her husband, who seems to be totally in the dark about what the whole thing is about, and was threatened with police and legal action if he tried to go to the house again or refused divorce.
8.0 EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
I don’t know many Western men married to Japanese women around here, but the batting average does not seem to be good.
9.0 WHO ME WORRY?
Let’s expose this situation for what it is… a total SHAM!
It’s not a sham. Your wife walked into marriage with expectations that you would head off to work in the morning, come back late in the evening with your paycheck in hand and be too tired to do anything except go to sleep in your own futon without making a whole lotta racket.
That is marriage, son. It’s marriage in the US, it’s marriage in the UK, it’s marriage in Japan. It’s probably even marriage in Bumfucked Peking. Women have expectations that go something like “We’ll have a romantic honeymoon in Hawaii, and then I’ll have lots of time to spend at home watching Leave it to Beaver re-runs or maybe Hollywood squares if she’s already seen the episode where the Beaver gets a paper route to pay for the bicycle in the window.
Marriage is not a romantic stroll on the beach. It’s a non-stop boring routine that isn’t helped by the addition of a kid or three. You’ve got responsibilities. So does she. Her responsibilities revolve around your child/children. You no longer count as anything more than a paycheck and an extra plate of food on the table. If you want to have wild and sweaty sex, get a girlfriend. You’re married and that kinda stuff went out the window when the kid showed up.
10.0 I THINK I’M TURNING JAPANESE
It’s not just you, me, Japanese men, American men, Chinese, Russian or Nigerian men. All of us guys, no matter where we find ourselves, jumped into the sack of marriage with a lusty little demure girl and woke up with duplicates of our mother-in-laws.
Our wives didn’t get a much better deal. They married a well educated(i.e. paycheck) and a romantic guy that didn’t fart at the dinner table. They ended up with duplicates of their disgusting father-in-laws who fart at the table, fart in bed, aren’t interested in romance anymore, and never wash their feet.
I told you before that if you have expectations, then sit her down and explain to her how things are going to be. She should have done the same thing to you, so I guess both are at fault. It’s kinda late now that you have a child, but I don’t really believe she’s asking so much from you. Your traditional role in a marriage is to provide the money and security. Hers is to make sure that the children’s diapers are clean and the beans aren’t burned. Didn’t you ever watch the Brady Bunch?
I think marry with japanese girl is very good for your future because Japanese girls is very loyalty and care and love her husband.
maybe someday I can get marry with one of girl from Japan.
Anyone japanese girl want for serious…..
hehe….
try to understand her and keep your relation.
riza22222@yahoo.co.id
All,
You’re really worrying me. The comments seem to be all completely classified into two groups:
1) Gaijin who have married Japanese and distinctly noticed their sex lives dwindle upon having married (but generally had a great sex-life while courting)
2) Randy Gaijin who haven’t actually married (although they might have dated a few) a Japanese person but have strong desire to because they’ve heard somewhere that most Japanese people are really randy, too, and so Blue’s article couldn’t possibly be right.
This is all starting to make me really believe that old saying 釣った魚には餌をやらない。 Is there anyone out there who is happily (and hornilly) married!?? I’m contemplating marriage with my long-standing Japanese partner – please help!!
Gourmet, my opinion – don’t get married to a Japanese. I would just keep her as a girlfriend if you want your sex life to continue as is. Japanese girls are like transformers, pussy whips in disguise. They transform on your wedding day, and only whip for penis when they want babies. The rest of the time is spent whipping you for money, and whipping your friends away from you.
there are so many foreigners marrying japanese girls, i bet the next generation of japan might be the cutest in the world…
guys, the whole concept of getting married is about having family. living with family members is not always romantic, it could be very stressful some time. It needs efforts from both husbands and wives, and kids too. no efforts (and it’s a countinuous one), no happy marriage!
Gourmet, this looks like more evidence to support Trevor:
“No sex, please: we’re Japanese – and married”
published earlier this month in the times. I haven’t been married long enough to give you any reliable advice, but surely it boils down to communication. If you are open and honest with your hubbie/wife from the beginning then it’s hard to say that your expectations weren’t met. Or am I just another naive gaijin who has joined the list…?
>> am I just another naive gaijin who has joined the list…?
I thought that too!
>> If you are open and honest with your hubbie/wife
And that!
I think maybe sometime if your living with family members make your stress,but some time if you far from them your feel loose them….
OK,
Having followed the comments through the rss, I notice that we’re kind of starting to lose sight of the main article. Yes, Japanese marriages are sexless, yes, us foreigners married/getting married might be experiencing that. So yes, the talk to going to fuzoku, or is is accepted to play around while married and what not is relevant, but I think we’re falling into a rut of saying “Japanese girls are great in bed, until their married, so just hit as many Japanese girls as you can, because that’s all they’re good for” and playing into building a very bad image. Think we should stop and step back a second, we’re falling into drunknanpa level comments here, and bring the level back up a notch.
That said, I was re-reading the comments, and what Drew said, about the wife and what not saying get your rocks off at fuzoku, because it’s a service, for your body not your heart. I have other friends say that, and it seems there are at least some level of the population that believes in that way of thought, that the body can play but the heart (and paycheck, for the most part) stays at home. I would have to say that the fact that there is an abundance of fuzoku, with delivery girls, and other weird abnormal things goes to say there is a demand, and that the population accepts it, even if they don’t talk about it.
However, I also agree with Drew that, _if_ I had to choose, I would rather go with the furin, or the friend with benefits, over the fuzoku, because there is a certain amount of trust to the friend with benefits, that you have then you would from fuzoku. I mean… who wants to sleep with someone who could be sleeping with three or four guys a night? The thought is absolutely chilling to me. Of course, in this day and age, you can get something from the girl next door even so…
Also, Autocentricus good faq, got a chuckle out of it, and there is quite a bit of truth to it.
Of the few girls I have spoken to on this topic, every single one said they prefer that if their man had to, then he should go to the fuzoku. Definately not furin. And the reason is that it is because a furin may start to play with the heart (even if you dont expect it), whereas the fuzoku is in, out, pay, and finished. No chance of the girl losing her mans heart to the fuzoku girl. That makes it a 100% bodily service.
Autocentricus, your post is amazing! I certainly don’t agree with everything you say, but there is much truth in it. That said, here’s something quite relevant that I posted (in desperation) to another web site (reddit.com) earlier today:
Yes, I’ve been married to a Japanese woman who I am still very much in love with. The major problem in our marriage has always been lack of intimacy. This translates into her not wanting to hold hands or hug (or return such gestures when I initiate them). This also means that she doesn’t like to kiss and has little interest in sex. Despite that, sex is sometimes good, but even with the better moments, her attitude always seems to be that it is something that I do to her rather than something we do together. In bed, she is extremely passive, happy to receive oral pleasure, for example, but almost never giving it. (When she does, it has only been at my request and it never last evena full minute before she lays her head back down and waits for me to do something.) She also seems to think of once per week as a maximum. I try so hard to please her. I know I’m not a perfect husband, but when she’s particularly unhappy with something I’ve done or haven’t done, she doesn’t tell me. In the over 10 years we’ve been married, I’ve tried to discuss these issues with her and to change my own attitudes, but I have seen no effort on her part to do the same. She seems to think that I must just adapt. When we have talked about these issues, she often justifies her attitude as stemming from her being Japanese. (For example, “Japanese don’t like to kiss,” she says.) Like many Japanese, she seems to have a fatalistic attitude, believing that we must accept the way we are. My attitude (which is no doubt related to my own cultural upbringing in the U.S.) is that there is certainly much in our personalities we can trace to culture and that when we see that, we must keep in mind and show patience, but that a cultural basis is never justufucation for not changin at all. (Slavery and segregation, after all, were major parts of American culture for a very along time, but that didn’t mean we should have jsut accepted them!) From my years living in Japan and from years of frustration with the woman I love, I am convinced that Japanese society has some of the most unhealthy attitudes toward sex and intimacy.
I said that the sex is good sometimes. Recently, I’ve come to realize that that’s mainly because if you starve someone enough, almost any food will taste good. About 2 weeks ago, as we were (or, more correctly, as I was) just beginning our same, old, predictible pattern of foreplay, I suggested something slightly different. When she balked, I said that we need to do something different at least once in a great while, she responded, “Why?”. I just said that sex gets boring if you don’t, then we returned to our usual pattern of me spending 30 minutes getting her turned on while she lies on her back with her eyes closed, then she signals that she’s ready while continuing to lie flat on her back — the only position she wants. Later, I realized that since it had been almost 3 weeks since we had had sex, I was like an starving man happy whose only food for over 10 years had been stale bread. After a few weeks with nothing at all, he can be grateful for even that same, old stale bread.
The reasons for this situation are many, and I am sure that I am not without blame, but I do think that Japanese culture is one of the primary causes, including the notion that change is not possible.
This post has gotten way too long! Obviously, we’ve got some serious problems here. I’ve spent so much time looking for books on this topic and advice on the web, but it’s very difficult to find any in English that address these problems from the standpoint of cultural backgrounds. Also, almost all advice realting to lack of sex and sex drive in marriage refers to getting your relationship back to where it used to be. Before we married and in the early years of marriage, we had the same problems, but there always seemed to be hope that things would change. Now, I don’t have much hope for the future and I’m desperate for advice. If anyone can point me toward good sources for that, I would be very much obliged.
Thanks — and sorry again for the long rambling post!
(My wife has many qualities that have led me to love her deeply, but I’m not sure how long I can continue without intimacy. I should add one other VERY important fact that will no doubt help you understand our problems: we have 4 kids. She’s a wonderful mother to them. To both of us, nothing is more important than them. She, however, also seems to think that it is not possible to make kids the #1 priority and our marriage #2. To me, she seems to think that kids are the ONLY priority and that I’m just being selfish. Uhg!)
Kakui,
I think I’m probably preaching to the converted but I read some interesting data somewhere – I just wish I could remember the source for you. It surveyed married couples in various countries about what their priorities were. I think the question was something like, if you were caught in a river close to drowning with your partner and your child, which would you save.
Apparently almost all Japanese participants announced that they would save their child whereas a lot (I can’t remember what percentage) of Westerners answered their spouse.
I think it is a difficult question because clearly there is no obvious answer and you could definitely answer that they are both wrong. I suppose what is different is this perception. ie
To Japanese there seems to be one right answer.
To Westerners there is no right answer.
It seems to have something to do with being a blood relation – what do you call it 血縁関係? There is something about family relationships in Japan which are much, much stronger than in the West. I’m not just talking about oedipus syndrome, think of how the eldest son looks after his parents – quite often more so than he does his own wife. If your wife and your own Mother had a fight – whose side would you take? That’s a tricky question again but I think that in Japan the answer is pretty obvious.
The problem with having a child (or four) is that you create more and more people in your “family” which are connected by blood to your spouse. That makes you a minority.
Kakui, is your wife close to her family? Am I right in guessing that she would side with her Dad over you in a fight. Boy, have I seen that happen before today.
I think this attitude to blood relatives is a cultural issue and will be very hard to change. If that is what she is referring to when she gives you the “it’s because I’m Japanese crap” then I think I can hear where she is coming from.
That aside, there is no reason why this has to imply that you can never have a strong bond with a complete strange (ie. you). If you don’t mind my asking, did you ever have that type of relationship? (To be honest the girls like Trevor was talking about are real mysteries to me)
In the few relationships that I have seen like that around me, the couple was very quick to have children. It is really hard to fight with your wive’s 母性本能. Unless you have spent a long time (and I think that means many years in some cases) building an extremely strong (and romantic) base to your relationship, you’re going to find that it suffers immediately once “mini me” (or should I say “mini her”) is on the scene.
Does that all sound plausible?
Wow, I unfortunately have a day job so must keep it brief. Kakui sounds like he’s married to MY wife. Amazingly similar. To try and fix things (without going the girlfriend/’ho route) I suggested to her that we get some toys and costumes and she said yes. So best I go buy them. I’ll let you know how it works out. I also suggested breast implants, which she said she wanted. So there goes 5 grand. I’ll let you know how they work out too.
Kakui, I am in the same boat as Marvin and you also. I have tried and recently succeeded in spicing up my “night” life with the wife. It just involved a few D&Ms with her about how I wasn’t feeling like a man, and I asked her if I could do anything more to help her get in the mood to, well, get in the sack. She soon saw my side of things, and all is good for now.
Seems the Koreans are also making fun of the Japanese in this article:
http://theseoultimes.com/ST/?url=/ST/db/read.php?idx=4976
I expected western media to ring this sexless Japan thing until the last drop, but when other Asian countries start, Japan has really got some thinking (and more!) to do.
Looks like the sexless issue is not only limited to Japan. Here is an article on China Daily today.
********************************************************
30% of couples abandon sex for stress
By Wu Jiao (China Daily)
Updated: 2007-04-02 06:45
With constant pressure from families and careers, a staggering 30 percent of middle-aged couples give up on sex, according to a new survey.
The survey, the first of its kind to measure intimacy between middle-aged couples in China, was conducted by American pharmaceutical manufacturer Eli Lilly Company and the Beijing-based China Population Communication Center.
Interviewing 32,906 people in 10 big cities including Beijing and Guangzhou, the poll found that middle-aged couples in the Chinese mainland seldom communicate in their daily life, and often rate their sex lives poorly.
The survey suggests that the major problems affecting marriages are lack of communication, arguments and unsatisfactory sex.
While 46 percent of respondents said they believe a satisfactory sex life promotes intimacy between couples, most couples admitted that their sex life has deteriorated since their wedding.
Around 45 percent of couples said that the husband has sexual dysfunction. Of those, 76 percent said they feel frustrated and complain about it.
Specifically, 30 percent of middle-aged couples and 25 percent of couples younger than 30 have given up sex altogether as a result of physical or psychological problems related to stress.
Many couples also said they were frustrated at the lack of day-to-day intimacy in their lives.
According to the survey, 41 percent of middle-aged couples only kiss and cuddle at home when their children are not around.
About 25 percent only want to mind their own business when they are left alone, either just talking or not communicating at all.
The older the couples are, the less likely they are to communicate or act intimately, found the survey.
Another notable finding was that family responsibilities often lead to a decrease in communication – 37 percent of respondents said pressure from concerns over their children’s education, caring for parents or finances had led to less communication with their spouse.
According to Qiu Xiaolan, an expert with the China Sexology Association, a healthy sex life and frequent day-to-day communication are the foundations for maintaining an intimate relationship between husband and wife.
A decline in sex will lead to a decrease in communication and adversely affect the relationship, said Qiu.
“Due to the heavy burden having a family and a career puts on middle aged people today, sexual dysfunction is affecting more and more middle-aged men, overshadowing their relationship with their wives and undermining the stability of the family,” said Qiu.
Perhaps they should consider renaming it the China Once-in Every-Few-Monthsly?
Dammit these alerts suck me in all too often… popped in to say:
“Uh oh lads… check this out: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=alJHtBVJQRgY&refer=japan“
Hey Marvin,
That is OLD NEWS on stippy. We wrote about that one months ago!
Yeah, I feel like I’m in a time warp sometimes. Sorry. I’ll improve my game.
Gourmet in Washington, you make some good points. I should underscore, however, that these issues were present even before we had kids. She always had a reason why this was not the moment — you know, the usual: I’m really tired, I have a headache, . . . . Before kids, during the first year and a half of our marriage, she was working a lot of hours at a tough job, but so was I! We were both stressed out at times, but she always seemed to view sex as another chore, another duty that added additional stress rather than something we do together that helps reduce stress (among other benefits). She hasn’t changed in that regard, and kids have, of course, made things even harder.
Who do you save from drowning, your spouse or your kids? Well, I’m a Westerner, but I would have to say the kids — no doubt about it. I have always felt that way. I don’t say that because of the problems between my wife and me, and I am glad that she also would not hesitate to choose the kids. But I should add that she is very close to her mother, and I’m not so sure if she would choose to save me before saving her mom — despite the fact that her mom’s got 24 years on me! I love my mother very, very much, but I would choose my wife over my mom if faced with such a situation.
Marvin & Jim, I feel for you guys, of course. I’ve tried spicing up our sex life, and it seemed to work a bit at times, but then we too easily fell back into the same situation. She’s not into costumes, but I’ve introduced toys, which she seemed to enjoy, but again, she always just laid back and let me do something to her. They never resulted in any real change, and they came with her usual list of “don’ts” and “can’ts (e.g. Don’t touch my breasts – I don’t like that. Don’t expect me to roll over. I can’t do anything to you – too tired or I just don’t want to.). We’ve also views some carefully selected porn together, which seemed to get her turned on a bit, but she still just laid there. A couple years ago, in an act of desperation, I even suggested we go to what was supposed to a very nice, on-premises swing club. I wasn’t suggesting swinging — and, supposedly, many of the couples at this club are only there to see and be seen — but I thought if she saw what other couples do together, it might encourage her to relax. (Previously, when we had been talking about love hotels back in Japan, she mentioned that in recent years — since we left Japan — love hotels where you can see other couples were becoming more popular. She said she’d be interested in visiting one together.) She was open to going to the club and suggested that I check out the certain dates. I did, but nothing was good anytime very soon. After a few weeks, when I came back to the idea and tried to schedule it again, she was totally negative about it. Okay, maybe it was a dumb idea, but I was — and am — desperate.
She’s hinted that I might follow the example the example of the husband (American) of a good friend of hers (Japanese). As far as we can tell, their marriage is totally or almost totally sexless — at least betweent he two of them. The friend’s husband is always mentioning to me strip clubs here in America and his visits to Bangkok. But it’s my wife I want. It’s her I love. I’ve told her that again and again and again.
Some great comments here. It really is a deep subject, and something that I dont think we will find a solution for soon. But it is still fun seeing people’s views and opinions. There is another good thread on this at gaijinbot:
http://www.gaijinpot.com/bb/showthread.php?t=3170
Yeah, some interesting comments on that site too.
I gotta admit, it sounds like I have it pretty good after all. At least in my case it is ME, not my wife who slows our sex life down. I just need some “strange”. Same old, same old. That gets old. For both he and she. Also, I don’t buy into this “Japanese only” crap, I have friends back home who are pretty similar and don’t shag so often. You just get bored with the same old rituals, same old tools.
Everyone needs a change now and then, it is basic human hormonal nature, the way God made us or however you wanna put it. Speaking of which, we need some God freaks on this thread to spice up the conversation!
Do married Christians have sex? What about married Japanese Christians then?
Please Help me for information free website looking japanese women for married.
Try 1st and than comment…
Thank you
My girl caught me looking at this thread and the gaijinpot thread (actually I left it up and she used the computer the next morning) and she asked me if it is something I was worried about. We’re not sexless (not married either) but there has definitely been a tapering off.
Well, we had sex twice that night, with renewed passion. So an answer to all you sexless guys out there… let her catch you looking at this thread (or the gaijin pot thread). It will work better than direct confrontation.
Let me know if this works for anyone else.
Interesting advice Kuri. I was actually preparing to try out the chocolate test…
Kuri, my girl caught me writing the damn thing.. She didn’t ask me anything..
>Marvin
>Do married Christians have sex? What about married Japanese Christians then?
Good questions — I guess! My wife (Japanese) and I (American) are both Christians, but I don’t think religion has anything to do with it. Indeed, the ideal marriage as laid it in most Christian theology with which I’m familiar, emphasizes the union of two souls. The brand of Christianity that we practice encourages couples to express their love for each other in various ways, including in the bedroom. However, she became a Christian only three years ago and has not paid any attention to such ideas. Whatever the source — from Christianity, sociology, philosophy, or simple advice columns — she tends to dismiss any notions that don’t conform to her own preconceived ideas. She thinks that I’m just expecting her to be an American woman. I’ve tried hard to make sure that that’s not what I’m asking of her, but fearing that she could have a point in at least a few instances, I’ve read and tried to learn whatever I can about universal ideas of love, intimacy and sex. I’ve purposely tried to find notions that would contradict my own thinking and challenge me to change. The more I do that, however, the more I’m led to the conclusion that Japan has an unusually high number of people with very unhealthy attitudes toward marriage and that I’m married to one of them.
I do not – or , at least, I know that I must not – expect that my wife will ever completely conform to what I believe, but I do expect that her to try to learn and understand as best she can what love is and how humans express it. She told me six months or so ago that she’s not so sure that she understands what love is, and therefore can’t be sure how much she loves me. My response was to try harder to learn more and understand better issues of love, marriage, intimacy and sex and to encourage her to do the same. She’s just not interested. I know, she’s working full time and we have 4 kids, so it’s awfully tough to find the time or energy, so I’ve really, really, really tried to lower my expectations, hoping only that there would be at least some little sign that she was trying at least a little bit. I’ve also been trying hard to make sure that I’m doing more around the house, taking more responsibility for the kids, etc. I’ve tried to talk to myself, to soothe myself and not to get angry or show frustration. I’ve tried to be as sweet and loving as I can be. I give her massages (which she loves). I tell her how beautiful she is. I tell her how much I love her. Her response: nothing.
About 2 months ago, reaching what seemed to be a crisis point, I stopped the massages and the words of love. I also tried my best to be polite and to just treat her the same way she treats me. At the same time, I also redoubled my efforts to take care of housework and kids. That didn’t work either. In fact, she just starting telling her friend how she had recently discovered some negative aspects of me that she hadn’t known before. So, about a month ago, I went back to trying to be more understanding and to treat her in a loving way. Now, she’s happier with me again, but she is still making no efforts In fact, we’re having even less sex!
I – rather, we – really need help. I just wish that she knew that.
Addendum:
One of the big problems, it seems, is that a lot of Japanese don’t view learning as something you do your entire life. My wife seems to think that by the time she was 23 years old, she was completely formed. That seems to be her attitude with almost everything.
A friend asked me how he could spice up his sex life with his girlfriend last year. I told him he should do cos-play and dress up as Buzz Lightyear. He took me seriously the fool. They broke up at Xmas.
Kakui, maybe you need to do the spicy thing. But hey with 4 kids!!! How can you get time? We have kids too but when they are asleep, I want to get the mrs all decked out in the suspenders, stockings and heels, school girl uniform and the likes and have my wicked ways. yeaaaah! Beats spanking off to the computer.
Has your wife ever busted you doing that? Ouch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OraQHpHvB3I
this is NEVER my problem! and i always laugh when i hear it from others, gaijin and japanese alike.
1) i set the stage by telling all the girls that i think i may have sex with that in all my relationships i have sex 3 – 5 times a week.
2) i learned the culinary art of cunnilingus. which means i can almost quarantee she’ll cum first. trust me, when she cums in that way she’s ‘addicted’ to me.
cunnilingus, you can’t rush it, count on minimum face time of 15 – 20 minutes. technique is important, try to think of savoring a juicy steak or licking an ice cream cone, not swallowing bad tasting medicine.
few men have that skill, learn it and i promise she’ll be asking to cum back
i think that the reason i’ve stumbled along so well as i have, is that giving a woman pleasure has always been my goal. women tell me i’m good, they voluntarily tell me, i’ve never asked,”was it good?” and i’ve figured out enough about the female anatomy where it’s hard to fake an orgasm with me. my very first lay out of highschool(i was a virgin ’till 18 but almost a freight train every since)was an older woman who had been chasing me who absolutely didn’t believe i was a virgin.
with my girl now we have sex sex 2 – 3 times everytime we meet, twice a week. my goal has always been to exhaust women, put them to sleep through body shattering, convulsive orgasms. i do this through oral sex, not cock insertion. which means they cum first, that is my goal. after i cum, they are surprised when i tell them i’m not tired. i smile sometimes as they can barely keep their eyes open as they play with their hair and smile at me. believe me there is nothing like the look of satisfied woman that has just cum sleeping next to you! heck i’m damn near getting a hardon just thinking about it. when a girl tells you her pussy “feels like indonesia” when she thinks about you at work, yeah, you are doing something right!
true story: in the states my mom came into my apartment to leave something for me(i wasn’t there) and she heard one of my girls leaving a message for me. later my mother asked me, “what are you doing to these girls? you better watch yourself! what, you think you invented sex!?” my response, “no mom, i didn’t invent it. girls just didn’t enjoy it before me! ha hah ha” my mother threw her shoe at me.
get a girl to cum consistently and you can have all the sex you want from her. it is truly a drug for them, because generally men do not care enough. my sex life is great because i know that hands down i’m one of the best lays on earth, this is not conceit, i work at it, i just truly really love giving pleasure.
Mitaboy: “i know that hands down i’m one of the best lays on earth”
Who knows….you might be, but that doesn’t mean you aren’t a complete tosser! Grow up mate – you sound like an 18-year-old.
Having sex is like learning a language – the moment you thing you are getting OK at it, someone comes along who shows you just how much better you can be.
Except of course if you are Mitaboy who seems to have peaked already….
All this is only just on topic though isn’t it….somehow I think that there could be deeper social issues behind this than just the willingness to go down?
“one of the best” means that there are others that are better. satisfy your woman and your sex life will improve, period.
that doesn’t ignore the other aspects of a relationship, but if she isn’t really satified sexually there isn’t any real inducement to have sex with you is there?
Mitaboy – If that’s what you wanted to say in your post you probably could have done it without comments like:
“this is NEVER my problem! and i always laugh when i hear it from others, gaijin and japanese alike”
There may be people out there reading this who are actually in one of the relationships described in the article, and would like some intellingent discussion on the issue rather having it implied that it’s all their fault because they are $hit in the sack???
You also seem to be missing the other side of the equation when you say “if she isn’t really satified sexually there isn’t any real inducement to have sex with you”.
This is implying that women are only interested in sex for their own pleasure, and to be quite honest, is a pretty derogatory comment. Thankfully the women I know are not as shallow and superficial as yourself.
please read: “that doesn’t ignore the other aspects of a relationship” this means that there other aspects to be considered, other than sex. i’m not suggesting that it’s only sex
however when men speak of trying to or meeting women’s other “needs” in many cases a woman sexual satisfaction isn’t given enough attention.
many men have stated how they try to accommodate their lover’s or wives needs that are in no way related to sex yet their sexual desires(the men’s) are met. some men feel that sex is like a reward, it isn’t a reward. approach sex from her perspective of satisfaction and having enough sex is a non issue.
i stand by this “if she isn’t really satisfied sexually there isn’t any real inducement to have sex with you”. one’s lover or wife is not a call girl. call girls don’t need to be satisfied, one’s lover or wife should be.
like it or not, many men could care less about truly satisfying their lover or wife. i don’t happen to be one of them. their are enough statistical studies that bear out the fact that women are less pleased than men with sex. that is because many men have a selfish view of the act of sex itself.
So then mitaboy, what you’re saying then is, most Japanese women don’t care about sex because they haven’t been enlightened to it, by say someone as talented as you? Bold words….
How about the obvious problem of a lack of marital intimacy? My wife and I (both Canadian) have been floored by comments like “Why are you so close?” (when sitting, literally, about 6 inches apart on a couch and not touching each other at all) and “Japanese expect to grow apart throughout their married life.” The person who made that second statement declared it with a fair deal of pride. I couldn’t believe two things: 1) That decreased intimacy was the EXPECTED path for a marriage; 2) That this person was actually proud of this because they saw it as “the Japanese way.”
I’m not at all surprised that the porn, maid cafes, affairs, and consuming work culture make marital intimacy a challenge of Fuji-esque proportions.
With impending changes to the pension system, expect a huge increase in the divorce rate. The intimacy is already gone and soon the economic incentive for couples staying together will be removed as well.
to robert:
you are 100% correct! the key, “‘someone’ as talented as you”, the operative word being someone, not necessarily me.
there are many men like me in the world. i’m not so special. the difference being is that i’ve studied(and continue to do so) how to please women. most men haven’t studied it, i have. there’s plenty of information out there. and basically the only men that take issue with me (i’m not saying that you are one of them) are those that aren’t sure that their women, lover’s or wives are sexually satisfied most of the time. i can say mine are. my sex life has never been an issue. that is because i think of her pleasure first. women have told me this – unsolicited and i’m experienced enough with the female anatomy to know they are telling me true.
many men think by virtue of the fact that they have a penis they can satisfy a woman, how incredulous.
Mitaboy: Still, knowing how to please a women, doesn’t exactly mean that they will let you get that far. It seems that you’re thinking that knowing how to please a women down below through the use of other then the conventional penis is what will get her fired up. While always a valid point, and I wholeheartedly agree with giving more, the problem here isn’t how you satisfy the woman, but _getting_ to be able to satisfy the woman. All your tricks won’t do you any good if she’s plain not interested, doesn’t care, or as I’ve noticed in the past, doesn’t want you to go down south. Technique’s not the problem here I think, it’s being able to use that technique or not that is the problem
robert
understood and i agree.
if she isn’t into you, she isn’t into you. if she was into you, find out why and rekindle that.
Mitaboy,
Seriously – go back and read your original post. Now have a good long think about the impression people are going to get after they read it.
1) You start by putting down people who are having problems and revel in the fact that you don’t.
2) You go on to call yourself “a freight train” and “one of the best lays on earth”
3) You suggest that “girls didn’t enjoy [sex]” before meeting you.
Then in a later post you go on to suggest that the reason people take issue with you is because of their own sexual insecurities?!? Wow.
Could it be that people take issue with you because it really doesn’t sound like you are trying to give helpful advice, you just love talking about how good you are?
Maybe that’s why your girlfriend likes it so much when you go down; its the only time that she gets a few minutes of peace and quiet.
Once you filter through all the cr@p, what you are saying is fine. But it essentially boils down to “try harder to please your partner” doesn’t it?
I completely agree, but it’s hardly groundbreaking stuff, and I’m pretty sure your message could have been made without all the self gratification.
For someone you claims to be so focused on others you really do spend a lot of time talking about yourself!
flintstone:
won’t disagree with you. that being said.
most people(51%+) that are good at something express(brag about) it at sometime.
i NEVER take bragging personally. i see through it, take as a human ‘frailty’(?), question that individual if i’m interested in what he(she) is bragging about, determine where the substance may be and utilize it.
again, generally speaking men(i’m not saying that you are one of them) get tweaked when the issue of their sexual performance may be challenged. i don’t. i listen, determine what’s applicable, learn and get better.
this applies to the non-sexual aspects of my relationships too.
Mitaboy, you “listen, determine what’s applicable, learn and get better” and “this applies to the non-sexual aspects of my relationships too”? Then listen to all the applicable advice given by others here: you’re an ass, and apply it to these relationships: stop talking so you don’t look like even more of an ass.
whew!! you took it too personally. name calling. the lowest form of human communication. you’d have done better not to vent. breathe in, breathe out.
me: not affected by your rant, maybe others will be
It is the LACK of content in your posts that we take personally. We’re affected by your posturing rants. Please offer something constructive, or stop clogging the forum.
do you mean you want technical instruction?
i’ve not read any posting that has offered any solutions, if so, please point out the posting number.
if one wants technical instruction ‘google’ it
should anyone think my posts have ‘zero’ value. contact the administrator and have them deleted.
my feelings won’t be hurt in the least
No!!! Please don’t delete them!!!
I want to come back here whenever I feel down and have another good laugh!!!
Rest assured, we don’t delete any comments on stippy, as long as they are (sort of) on topic, and are not spam. By the way Mitaboy, congratulations, you are number one on Google for a search of “mitaboy”. Nice one.
and laughter might help rekindle a relationship. scientifically proven to affect one’s attitude, which may be all that the woman in one’s life needs – a change in attitude
Might I suggest we simply ignore Mitaboy?
While he made a good point, he totally blew it in the approach, and any sort of response to that and him will get you a less the satisfactory answer.
Let’s look at it as an example of what happens when your ego grows bigger then your common sense.
Like I said though, while pleasing your partner is valid point, I still think it is not the issue here. It’s not a matter of if you go down on your wife or please her or not, it seems like a majority of the people here want to love their wife and do all the dastardly things you can do with her. It’s just… well they’re not interested, and I’ve found that continued disinterest shown leads to disinterest on the male side as well, which leads to the other methods of output (gf, fuzoku, furin, sefure, etc). I reiterate, you could be the next best thing after sliced bread in the sack, but if she just don’t care, or doesn’t want anything other then the normal missionary style, regular sex, then it’s going to be hard to show her that you’re the pb&j in her sandwich.
Ahem… if anything, I’m amazed at the wide range of extremes in the country, with women who are either in to everything, or quite serious, lights off, no touching below the breasts, and amazingly shy/embarrassed about their bodies.
If anything, the one thing I wish is that Japanese women would be a little more congenial to… trimming down below, personally…not to be crude or anything, but sometimes it’s a jungle, and that’s just as much of a turn off to men to go down below as it is for women to do it for us.
Rob,
I think I can speak for everyone on this thread when I say we hear you on the jungle downstairs problem.
Its always a sticky topic to bring up with your partner, but if you have the courage to suggest that maybe trimming it back a little might help to spice things up, then the benefits can lead to much better things in the bedroom.
offer to trim your lover yourself and be sure you’re equally as well trimmed
and by the way:
the use of “dastardly”
“it seems like a majority of the people here want to love their wife and do all the ‘dastardly’ things you can do with her. It’s just… well they’re not interested,”
if one loves his wife but considers the things he does with her as ‘dastardly’, maybe his wife senses the ‘dastardliness’ of effort?
sex shouldn’t be considered a reward for good behavior.
whatever fire that kindled her interest in you sexually before(assuming it was genuine) , go back to that, rediscover that.
Mitaboy, if you hadn’t noticed, I was trying to inject a little bit of humor in the subject. As for you advice, it seems you’ve lost what footing you’ve had in giving advice with your rather brash start and then sudden turn around of taking everything serious, so perhaps it would be best if you refrained from more comments? It doesn’t seem like people are taking them very serious anymore.
read posts 65 and 67
you must be taking me seriously as you continue to respond to ME.
and quite honestly what you or anyone else thinks of ‘me’ is quite irrelevant.
you stated(post 69, great # btw) “While he made a good point,” the astute readers will catch that and get beyond the ‘tooting of my own horn’, which everyone one does i might add, maybe you’ve never done that.
but hey, i’m lovin’ the attention you’re giving me me me ME! ha hah ha because if i’ve irritated you, you are thinking creatively about your girl and i’ve done a good thing!
For those who want to know, the word for a shaved muff in Japanese is “Paipan”. I don’t know why and I haven’t been able to find any etymology on this, but there it is. Maybe just drop the word casually in conversation, perhaps when choosing peaches at the grocery store or something, and see how the wife reacts.
Oops I guess I should have done a google/wikipedia search first.
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%91%E3%82%A4%E3%83%91%E3%83%B3
and as for the ladies, on top of being naturally feminine (with petite sexy bodies, skin that doesn’t seem to change complexion from childhood, pretty faces and silky black hair)
Pretty faces, that’s subjective.
Sorry, but you sound like A PEDOPHILE! Petite sexy bodies (??) and and skin that is liek a child… One of the top pictures of your homepage shows school girls legs… That’s just SICK. I knew the person who made this site must be a pervert… But in most countries people DONT find petite bodies to be sexy… Now, if Japanese women are SOO NATURALLY SEXY AND FEMININE, can you explain HOW IN HEAVEN their husbands cheat on them?? How come Americans have more sex in their couples??No you can’t, because you’re just a gaijin with yellow fever who fantasizes on women who look like 10 year old girls… People like you give a bad name to gaijin… You are no different from the racists who depict Japanese as one stereotype. There are many ugly Japanese women, but in your sick yellow fever mind, you don’t remark them because it is SO ingrained in your mind that Japanese women have superior beauty… Yes, Akiko Wada is a prime example of this Japanese superior feminity you speak of…
Ever notice how people who accuse others of racism are often racists themselves?
Yes Whatever:
But think about what you are saying. Liking girls with skin that is like a child does not mean that the author thinks children are sexy. This is a metaphorical way of saying that he likes young looking skin, something that girls universally strive for (or at least, should strive for..). How many (non-teenage) girls do you know that say “I wish I looked older”? None right? They ALL wished that they looked younger, and Japanese girls have perfected this art of making their fully mature bodies look prime.
By the way, the reason why Japanese guys cheat, may be described in the article and comments above. Did you read any of them?
Hmm.. Anyway, you obviously are not going to agree with me, so look, you can stick to your fat (sorry, *curvy*) American chicks (leave the yellow for the rest of us).
Cheating is the brute instinct of human being, and it’s not limited to Japan or Japanese husbands. Didn’t you notice that the wives also cheat on their husbands, the famous example might be Prince Charles and Diana..
[...] not tired you can continue reading: Timesonline article, a book about the sexless phenomenon and great article at Stippy.com. Sin comentarios + → ←Sex in Japan – [...]
Some of the inane comments here are really something…I can’t believe that people here were really awarded Monbusho scholarships. You all compliment Japanese women to the high heavens on their “smooth skin,” etc. and then complain when the marriage goes wrong. What did you expect??
Hi Kakui,
I too have been married to a Japanese woman for ten years. As someone pointed out your wife’s character is the mirror image of mine too!
There’s no desire to be sexually active,I’m tired of all the excuses and the inability to have any body language and to initiate sex. I can count maybe 7 times in ten years when she has been the one to make the first move on me! I have therefore pleaded with her to find out how to be romantic and how to initiate any sexual desires she may have by looking on the internet. I might get a yeah yeah which means no way! I feel stuck in loveless marriage and DO feel like a room mate!
Just tonight there was a new show “Carmen’s sexy body work out shown at 11.30pm “. At the end of it I asked her if she could remember any of the moves so we could have a relaxed atmosphere and possibly a few laughs, but once again said she couldn’t remember. When I asked her more on this she said she was too tired and that she had done my ironing today and that I should help her hang up the washing now instead of arguing!I wasn’t arguing! Merely pointing out things. Why is it that she doesn’t use the past tense to think of good memories or achievements I have done yet is good at using the past only to show me what she has done? In this marriage, I started losing my feeling of masculinity about three years ago so started feeling maybe I was wrong too show affection and that I was be expecting too much from her. Talk about a feeling of role reversal. I was quickly shown the light, when I went to Osaka universal studios, and saw many Japanese couples holding hands! Boy was I confused!! I realised that I had been brainwashed by her and that I was normal!! As someone mentioned I felt I had been starving for affection and could see it all in front of me. Granted many of these couples as my wife said weren’t married, so???
Let me just add that we have 2 great children a 7 year old and a two year old. My wife does a good job cooking and looking after them and taking them out as well as balancing helping out our company, but the problem I have realised is that the 2 year old gets all the affection and regularly wants holding and cries for mummy at night and in the morning! It dawned on me that if the 2 year old is always the center of attention then she loses respect for her 7 year old sister and for me. If I tell my wife to hug me in front of the kids she might give me a sumo king of hug and a groan but my 2 year old will RUN to hug me!!! Can’t my wife get the message? NO!
My wife used to openly criticise me in front of the kids which thankfully has stopped but she continues to sleep in the kids room. I am only in my early thirties and am often smiled at by Japanese woman when I’m on my own so why do I feel like a popular commodity which is hers but she doesn’t want to use? Does this ring a bell?
What I want is for open feelings to be shown, for my wife to stop sleeping in the kids room, and to stop being such a pessimist. When this occurs then possibly the feeling of a boring marriage will stop! But I won’t hold my breath!
Oh yes did I not mention that it’s difficult to invite friends over since my wife says she will have to clean up the place before their arrival. This sounds very Japanese!
I love my kids but have stopped wearing my wedding ring since I don’t feel so OWNED! That’s all for now,but would be happy to hear your thoughts and insights on this to help find a solution.
Al
Hi Kakui and Marvin, Seems to be a pattern emerging here? Just the same story here too… once we had kids, then all of the passion ground to a halt! 100% of the attention is to herself and the children. I don’t want all the attention, but a proportionate amount is necessary for a healthy relationship. Never (or very rarely) wants to initiate sex with me, and no longer responds to my advances (excuses, too tired, not now, Japanese are conservative…) , although took the initiative of purchasing such toys to DIY, and makes no secret of it, even asking me to assist sometimes. (this is shocking for me), but does not want to touch me. Spends up big on the beauty with facials etc, but that is normal for j-girls, and I don’t mind her looking good. …Like Marvin, my wife also has her sights set on breast implants (A to C cup), and has been seeing various cosmetic surgery centres for the past two months checking out her options. She seems a liitle worried about what people around her would think (mainly family and friends), so has been wearing seriously padded bras since she stopped breast feeding 8 months ago in order to make the transition seemless. I think that this is an unnecessary step and tried to talk her out of it. My wife won’t admit that there is a problem and at the moment I just don’t know what to do about it…, or how to set things right.
Make sure this situation doesn’t exist…
“Can you help me…I feel like I’m your slave”, she says. Words of a Japanese woman and homemaker to an American man, echoed by Japanese women to Japanese men everywhere in Japan. Whether she works outside the home or not, the Japanese woman does almost all the home-related chores, while the man, no matter what nationality, many times sits on his butt like lord and master.
In all fairness, many foreign-born men do share the housework workload, and Japanese men are slowly coming around, but the vast majority of women still have two jobs: company and home.
Among the items on her lengthy to-do list of household tasks is ‘sex with the husband’. In Japan it’s stereotypically considered one of those things that’s just part of a relationship, whether she’s sexually satisfied or not. Because his salary enables her to buy the brand bags and shoes, puts a roof over her head and food on the table, that is if she wants to get married. Sex in such a situation is nothing more than a mechanical act. Can you imagine a man having to perform such a ‘chore’ with little to no sexual satisfaction?
So, if she doesn’t seem interested or says she’s too tired try lightening her workload.
Good points mitaboy, Ah, I wish I could attribute the characteristics I described to your scenario…Unfortunately I can’t. My wife quit her work upon getting married 7 years ago, and has no intention of going back to work. She’s not overworked on housework as we have a maid (no – not akiba type maid
, but domestic assistance style maid to wash, iron, clean bathroom, vacuum the house etc.) twice a week. My wife likes to socialise with other Japanese girlfriends about twice a week at downtown (uptown) cafes as well as meet the “mothers club” at the park weekly. Surely her life is not too stressful?
mike,
sounds like she has a life better than most japanese women! she may be the envy of some.
i’ll say something, it may seem brutal, please, it isn’t meant to be. think back and assess those times that ‘you’ thought sex was good, do you think she was really interested in sex or driven by something else? she does seem to have a good life.
assuming that you still find her attractive, the only thing that i might suggest is to rediscover what it was about you that made you sexually desirable.
some people say that japanese women are sexual enjoy sex until after they have children then a ‘switch’ goes off in their head. personally i haven’t found many japanese women to be sexual. though they can be trained to be sexual to some degree.
Let me start by saying great thread and great responses! I happen to agree with mitaboy on the goal of pleasuring a woman first as you main goal (with the corrollary that she should in turn want to please you!).
Ok, so I came across this thread/post/blog because I am new to the Japanese dating game and am having the same issues with the girl not being interested in sex as lots of others here are. I’m looking for answers but so far the general consensus seems to be that if I have such a girl, it is best not to take it too much further since if it’s bad now, it’s guaranteed to get 100 times worse if I ever decide to tie the knot.
I’m relieved to know I’m not the only one with these issues, anyway! What I am going to do (aside from trying a few suggestions out like cosplay etc, gently suggested to her) is actually discuss this thread with her (or attempt to – her english is ok but nowhere near the level required to understand this stuff fully) to show her that we have a common problem and aren’t unique in any way. Communication is always important and if she maybe understands that the issue is at least partly cultural then it may help. It may not, but if that turns out to be the case then I sadly may have to look elsewhere (at least she’s girlfriend only and not a wife like some here!). I really like her personality but as some have pointed out, it’s sex that gives a relationship its uniqueness – if you aren’t hving sex then really it’s no different to just being good friends, and that is NOT something I’m going to give a bigger commitment like marriage to.
Anyway, awesome thread and it’s helped a lot, so thanks for everyone’s input!
You guys may have seen this already but last week I wrote an article about pre-marital counseling in Japan.
link here
Everyone who we spoke to made it very clear that counseling shouldn’t be seen as a one-off thing. It is an investment in your marriage that should be done regularly. Even people with strong relationships revisit their counselors once every few years – hey, that is why they have strong relationships.
In the West I think pre-marital counseling is easier to bring up than post-marital as it is more widely accepted and a lot of people do it. I’m sure I’m preaching to the converted when I say that it isn’t the case in Japan and it took a lot of guts to suggest the topic to my fiance. I think it’s easy to interpret it negatively (like a free chance of testing your fiance before you make the huge plunge). The great thing about post-martial counseling is that it is much harder to interpret it as an escape/insurance policy – it is all about positive energy… it’s supposed to be anyway…
Since the majority of contributors to this article are foreign MEN, I think there are several HUGE things that people are overlooking.
The main thing is that people are simply looking at sex DURING marriage, not the nature of sex and relationships before marriage, and the nature of relationships in general, sexual or not. I think the Minister of Health should look very closely at what people’s values, ideas, priorities, and desires are BEFORE they get married instead of just going, “OMG WHY AREN’T MARRIED PEOPLE HAVING SEX?!” Instead of starting early and trying to encourage more meaningful, emotional relationships before marriage, they’re waiting till the marriage happens, then going, “Well….stop going to the hostess bar and screw your wife more often.” That is just putting a huge glob of concealor over a cold sore.
Also, again since the majority of the contributors to this article of MEN, people are so disgustingly ready and willing to attack Japanese men’s sexuality, but somehow praise Japanese women’s sexuality. Well, it takes two to tango, so let’s look at both seriously. As this article mentions, ANYTHING sexual is ok to talk about and do….UNTIL you get married. I think THIS is where the problem lies. The passivity of the women here is at least as big a factor as the passivity of the men, if not more. If men hear, “Yes,” to everything sexual, they’re going to get all their kinks satisfied within a month. So who could expect the men to be interested after even a year? Women everywhere else in the world know that saying, “No,” is part of the game. It’s also a way to get things your way, so why haven’t the Japanese figured this out yet?
A lot of women are relieved NOT to have sex because, before marriage, many of them see doing any and every sexual act that a man could possibly want as a way to bait men into marriage. It’s no secret that women here have an almost unnatural obsession with marriage, particularly that it be done BEFORE the age of 30, so they’re willing to do anything to become married. Once they get the marriage (and if they want, get the baby) and the Disney princess fantasy is fulfilled, they feel like they’ve got it all. So who needs sex, or who even needs to use sex to get what you want when everything you want is already there?
Thanks Katie, we really needed some female input in this thread. I’d never thought of it that way. Damn Christmas cake culture!
Don’t women like sex too? I have heard from several women that they “want it just as much as guys do”. I can understand that sex outlives its purpose once Daddy and Mommy get married and have their 2.5 kids (or 1.5 in Japan I guess) but why would there be such a resistance to one of life’s greatest pleasures?
well i will say sex something that is needed in a relationship. it bonds the partners together physically and spiritually. IM not like real religious or anything but since i started makign love to my girlfriend whom i am now engaged to, i could sleep whenever i like. but now i cannot sleep and when i finnaly do it within minutes of the exact time she fell asleep or grew tierd. recently i have felt her feeling even when not around, i can playing a game or hanging out with friends and bam im pissed as hell for no reason. come to find out my gfs parents are either being childish and pissing her off for no reason ( which they do alot) or are trying to make her get rid of me. They hate me for 3 reasons. 1 they feel i spoil her way to much. 2 they call me controlling when all i ask is to know who she hangs our with and when so i know she is safe and dont come over to see her while she is out. i did state i wouldnt mind meeting friends of hers so i can feel safer about her being out with them but im not demanding it. ( personally i dont consider any of that controlling when she demands to know who when where how long why and usually to go with me)
and 3rd i got her pregnant 5 months ago and the baby was aborted due to medical problems. she wasnt healthy enough to have the baby. underweight and not very well nourished. ( and yes it is her choice to be skinny and she isnt anorexic either) but i stuck with her through it all beside her as much as i could. they let her mom back with her for the surgery and the mom said she didnt even want me in the buidling.
with her parents hating me, the pregnancy, and everyone that is against us. i still love my gf we still have sex, not because i make her or she makes me but because we want to. we have went 2 weeks currently do to lack of place and time, she still lives with her parents and i lack truly personal space. we have a great relationship and if not for her parents would be a couple that has little to no problems.
ok now that ive said enough about my relationship i woudl like to ask why the heck is the security word GAIJIN, i am no outsider and that is just plain wrong. i request that is changed to something, anything. for most that may just be another word but i know what it means and to me thats offensive…
Kietsu, I tried really hard to understand what you are trying to tell us… Im sorry, I just don’t get it. Are you Japanese? If so, could you explain to us what you are trying to say in Japanese if it is easier? I’m not making fun of you, just curious.
I am an A.A. female in NYC who has sex with my Japanese fiance almost every night. If we miss a night, we play catch up. On days off we put in overtime. We find each other sexually attractive and have never had a decline in sexual prowess. I don’t know, doesn’t anyone still watch porn?
-The reason gaijin is a security word is because this post has a pattern. Its called using japanese words as security words. regardless of how offended you may be gaijin is a japanese word. Don’t feel bad though, I got osaka… I mean come on… Osaka? That’s bullshit.. (why didn’t I get gaijin?)…
Yeah, I have to agree that mitaboy was getting a bit out of line. Our problem has not been that she doesn’t get satisfied in bed. I have always done everything I can to make sure each time we’re together that my wife reaches the best orgasm possible. The problem is that no matter what communication approach I try, no matter what I do to and for her, no matter how hard she cums, she does little to nothing in return. Often, I have to take her hand and move it on to me. Even then, she often does nothing. She REALLY loves when I go down on her. Since it turns her on so much, early on in our relationship we established a pattern of me doing that nearly every time we have sex. I long thought that the more I ensured that the sex was really good for her, the more likely that she would begin to reciprocate and that she would sometimes initiate sex — that she would become less uptight about sex. My searching the internet for advice is an act of desperation after trying every everything I could think of. I long, long ago dedicated myself to pleasing her, but that just hasn’t seemed to work.
That said, there have been a couple signs of improvement over the past few weeks. Unfortunately, they only involve her letting me do certain things to her, but they are signs that she could finally be getting less uptight. For first time ever (in over 14 years together!), she let me enter her from behind. Previously, she had always stopped me, sometimes saying that it hurt, that she just didn’t like that, or – most often – giving no reason whatsoever. Why it happened this time, I’m not sure, but she REALLY seemed to enjoy it. (Two days later, she fell outside and hurt her knee, which made it impossible to try that again soon. What luck, eh?!) The other thing she let me do was enter a certain previously “forbidden” place (I’m not sure how explicit we can be here – I’ll just hope you can guess what I mean.) with my finger while I was going down on her. She REALLY got into that too! Then, last weekend, she let me try that with my . . . my uh . . . other appendage. (What are the rules for this board? I can’t find them!) I couldn’t get far in before she stopped me, but she really enjoyed it at first. I think I pushed it to the limit that time (I mean that figuratively in this sentence, but I guess it works literally too!), but I’m confident that I didn’t go so far that she would react against such openness next time. Since she continues to express herself so indirectly, I’m never totally sure about what she thinks, but our conversation afterwards seemed to make it clear that she liked it and may want to try again.
Why the change? Well, I’ve redoubled my efforts to take care of the kids and housework. I’ve also tried to be careful to catch myself whenever I start to interpret what she says or does (or doesn’t say or do) as a rejection. After so many years of feeling hurt again and again, that’s not easy, but I could see that my building anger and resentment were not about to help lead toward a solution – quite the contrary, in fact.
I am, however, very wary. This is not the first time there seemed to be signs of thawing. Previously, as soon as I became convinced that we had finally embarked on the path to a closer, more intimate relationship, she started shying away from me and getting very tense. We ended up back in the same place. Right now, I’m asking myself if a major cause of that has been me. Perhaps I have too easily slipped back into bad habits of being lazy around the house as soon as things started to improve. I’m not sure if that’s true, but there’s a real chance that it could be so I’d better be on my guard to make sure that my changes stick.
I still don’t like the fact that the signs of improvement I mentioned involve me doing things to her and that she still sees doing anything sexual together as something to do not more than once a week, but there is some reason for hope. Besides, my complaints are not just about what we do in bed, but the general lack of intimacy and affections. As I said, I just need to be careful to keep working on myself – on how I react to any perceived slights against me and on sharing the burden of our household.
a point to be considered is that if one’s sex life wasn’t what was wanted before marriage then it is unlikely(though possible) that it will change significantly after marriage.
also see post 90. sex has alsways been a tool to hook men, no matter what the culture. and the japanese woman is no different in that regard. a japanese woman’s role changes after childbirth. that’s culture. it’s not likely to change just because she’s married to a non-japanese man.
bear in mind that many japanese women just aren’t as sexual as western women. they can’t be faulted for that, just consider how their own culture objectifies them. japanese women may perhaps ‘be taught’ the how to enjoy sex and initiate, but you’re fighting culture to some degree. this must be realized and dealt with patiently.
You make some good points, mitaboy. I’ve long recognized the fact that her attitude is rooted in culture and I’ve therefore been very patient. Of course, a cultural basis for something does not make it good, does not make it healthy , or right. It certainly makes it damn hard to change though! I have been patient . . . 14 years! But with 4 kids in that time period, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that we haven’t been able to make much progress. I feel very frustrated at times, but I am feeling hopeful. I know that I can’t expect her to attempt to change something so deeply rooted if I’m not trying to improve myself as a husband (and a father). Yes, I’m glad for the chance to come to this board and blow off some steam – much of it justified, I believe – but I should not deny that there’s still a lot about my own sorry ass that I’ve got to work on! I hope I can do it because I really, really love my wife.
perceptions of ‘right’ and ‘logical’ should be tempered from the perspective of how the other person views it. the best way to have someone see one’s perspective is to have that person “see what’s in it for me”. this may be difficult to do when a problem isn’t perceived.
from a sexual viewpont, bear in mind just as in other aspects of life people like different things to varying degrees. doesn’t make that individual wrong or better, just different. and the fact is, no matter what culture, women will always be different from men and engage in sex for different reasons. doesn’t make them wrong – just different.
as men realize that change begins by looking in the mirror, life does get better.
Kakui,
I feel your pain, brother! Getting your sex life back should be high on your priority list. This is for your sake and your wife’s sake. She may not know it, but by not having sex with you she is denying herself too. Women never lose their desire for sex (my grandma tells me all about it), they just get distracted with kids and other shit that makes their life seem so busy. Just like investment bankers, working 16 hour days and never taking care of their physical needs.
I suggest solving your sexual dilemma in an amusing way. Whatever you do, don’t get too serious about it. The moment she feels compelled to do anything, game over. Be a Don Juan, sweep her off her feet, go over the top in setting the mood. Buy a red-colored light for your bedroom. When she asks why, just grin and turn off the main lights.
Back when I was a 20-year old virgin, my friend gave me the best advice. “How can I get laid?” “Just whip it out” he said. “Put it in her hand and ask her some silly question like “Do you think it’s big?” This may sound like the worst advice you ever heard… well, I did not make it to 21-year old virgin. Sometimes the crazy, off-the-wall approach works!
Anyway, I should note that I am still not married (though close) and I have no kids, so this may affect my understanding of your situation, but I just wanted to help in some way. Shed some new light on the subject. Best of luck! If all else fails, seek counseling!
Since when is a “feminine” and “sexy” figure one with no tits and no ass?
haikei
hajimemashite.watashi wa suriranka kara.namae thusitha. daitai nihon go ga wakari masu. ii tomodachini natte kudasaimasenka.kore wa watashi no e-mail adoresu: thusithadammika@sinhalaya.com
tel:+94-725163077
e-mail o matte imasu
keigu
thusitha
Thusita you sad ass…sign up for stippy friends like the rest of us and try your luck there!
Thusitha… Surii-Saizu ha? Yoroshiku…
Hello Japan culture,
I want to marry a japanese women porn star but how may do that maybe I can stop women from going into pornographic films by marrying them.
I am a chinese muslim I learn this.
my email is quezonspiderman@aol.com maybe you can help me find one with reason enough to marry me as a muslim.
My first post here: I have been married for two years to a Japanese woman. Before that I was married for 15 years to an American. My new wife told me she hadn’t slept with her previous husband for 8 years. I had big problems sexually with my American wife: she only liked the missionary position and refused to let me go down on her. She would never get wet enough “down there” and my efforts to get inside invariably resulted in premature ejaculation. KY jelly, lubricated condoms helped, but were always messy.
My Japanese wife loves it when I go down on her. When we first married we were doing it sometimes two or three times a day (okay, I hadn’t had sex in over a year at the time). Today, two years later we have slowed down. We have sex only two or three times on the weekends. But she is always complaining that we don’t have sex often enough! It’s getting so that I often have “performance anxiety.” I suspect she has an ulterior motive: she wants a baby. I think our ages (me,49 and she,44) are thwarting her plans.
I sometimes pinch myself, to make sure I really am this happy. I think I do make the extra effort to please my wife: I help with the housework, I give her my salary, etc. I think a big factor is my bad grasp of the Japanese language: I can’t understand her when she is angry with me, so I just apologize and a fight never really gets started! I think Japanese women are very, very beautiful, and I am sure the interracial thing adds a lot of spice to our sex. My wife and other Japanese women tell me Japanese men are lazy around the house and very childish. Thank you, Japanese men!
I’m happily married to a Japanese woman & have been for nearly 5 years. Our early days of marriage were filled with rampant sex & great satisfaction which eventually resulted in two wonderful kids. After our second child, things began to dry up a bit sexually.
I think this was just a natural progression, something that happens to most couples after having children. We went from having sex about thrice a week to having it only once a month….but when we did have it it was always really good for both of us.
I think the point I am trying to put accross is that, whatever culture you’re from, who ever you’re married too, sex after childbirth is always different & usually declines. It’s not a cultural thing, it’s a hormonal thing that everyone will experience at somepoint in their life once they’ve had children.
It does not just apply to women, men’s hormones also go a bit haywire after becoming a Dad…..the natural pattern is that the first child brings desire to have anothre, a sibling for the first child to grow up with; hence sexual desire is still strong after the first.
But after the second the sexual drive depletes, & for me it was obvious when this was happening. After that point a natural desire to concentrate on providing for the children took over & I consequently concentrated harder on my work & my wife concentrated harder on rearing the kids in the home.
We spent about two years in an alomost sexually passive period, but all of a sudden just the other day the drive came on again!! I managed sex thrice in one night, something I never thoughht I’d be capable of again after having two kids! My wife was shocked, but not withholding….& now I’m getting hot for it everyday (something that hasn’t happened for over 4 years since becoming a dad).
I think it’s human nature for men to continue wanting sex more than women. That’s the way we have been designed & is perhaps the reason why the Japanese, who understand this nature, expect men to have extra marital affairs & view it as OK.
Personally I expect most men in the world to have extra marital affairs / or at least jerk off to porn on a regular basis in secret. Given our relogious cultures, CHristianity & Catholicism, we have been taught to be ashamed of masturbation, & to relinquish our sexual desires, which only leads to “adulterous” actions anyway. in Japan it seems that they are open to sex & are almost too acceptant of this natural mechanism to want to stick your phallus in something, that they just turn a blind eye to it. Surely an intelligent man can direct his sexual desire to his partner. If his partner is spurning him then that’s a different matter, & of course he’s going to need to do something else to fulfill his drive.
I kind of hold respect for the Japanese view that men are likely to go on & do this, but I do wish that Japanese men would try harder to keep the home fires burning with their wives. It seems that they themsleves have become resigned to the fact that going to strip joints / using sex services / or just having a bit on the side is part & parcel of society without really trying to make it happen at home.
I have to say after reading all the post here on this site, I have to come to the conclusion that all you guys are Pussy Whipped Punks who did not set things straigh to begin with. First, as I combe through the internet and read Gaijin experiences with Japanese “cuties”, I get the feeling that the men treat these women like they are “special” than other women. They seem to be fooled by the innocent appearance and petite body of these women. These women are WOMEN…just fucking women guys..nothing special. You guys kiss their asses, as you think you are getting some “faithful” cute prize that you can parade around with since you are most likely incapable of getting the same level of pussies back home in the States or where you come from.
Now me: I met my Japanese bitch in Graduate school. I wasted no time fucking her….. and we still together although her ass is in Japan and mine is in the States. I screamed at her, pretty much from the beginning and let her know she was nothing special, just a bitch to me and if she plays her cards right I may keep her ass. She let me know, she was not attracted to Japanese guys cause they are SOFT….like you guys are. Now me..I am a divorcee, with no kids, from a bitch that was the bitch of bitches here in the States. Yep, I got married, when I was 19 years old to this ugly fucking 37 year ho bag. I learned alot about bitch mind games and stinking pussy being with held and promised myself that I will never let another WHORE Pussy Whipped me again. Oh yeah, for four years I was a money earning pussy whipped mudda fucker. Anyways, I am still angry at myself and this aggression is prominent with any woman I get with. Ok, continuing with my Japanese taming story. She tries to pressure me to marry her, since 2005 and I told her, I don’t need a wife…and pretty much she is useless unless I feel like getting married. You see, I am talented in cooking and house chores too…….thanks to my lazy fucking Stepmother who made me do all those chores, so ofcourse I know how to do all that shit too, plus I am good looking, educated, make my money and simply don’t give a fuck about a woman’s feelings sometimes (Ok, I pretend I don’t). But I have her trained in all aspects of what I want and what her role will be, and I have told her I am not above slapping the fuck out of her too ( although I wouldn’t since an assault charge will ruin my career) Guess what I am?
My point is guys…is this…you guys portrayed yourself the same way the Japanese guys do with their women. Too eager to please them and let them get away with bullshit. I have told my woman that if she ever holds sex as a ransom from me…..I will simply dump her ass and find many bitches who would gladly take her role. You have to make your voice clear, and it does not matter if you are in Japan or not. Be willing to be the man, no matter what. Since I have a big aversion to COMMITMENT its so easy for me to dump a broad. And I have her ass on the pill and even though her parents are begging for a kid…Ok, I will reveal here that I am a black male: they want to have Exotic looking black grand children and so does she. I told her, that I will not be second to NONE. I don’t want children with her or any bitch for that matter. I have seen the results of ill fated marriages and money hungry ho’s trying to get you to pay 90% of your paycheck to support some fucking ungrateful brats, who you never get to see or play with.
SO FELLOWS……..Stand up and treat that Japanese bitch like shit. Come on….have you not notice women try to please a man that they think will trade their ass in. It does help to be smart, good looking, full of ambition, athletic and a bad attitude. I cuss my Japanese girlfriend all the time and hang up on her ass when I get tired of her trying to persuade me to be positive. Plus, I make her send me money……. That way, you make sure if she is willing to loose all her worth and money to have a relationship with you, she must either be in real love or just a really stupid bitch. Anyways, I hope you’ll keep it real…..
And no…black guys are not all assholes Japanese women……JUST ME. I live by the motto..”No pussy is that good”
“I have told her I am not above slapping the fuck out of her too ( although I wouldn’t since an assault charge will ruin my career) Guess what I am?”
Lawyer?
Nah man….I am DEA, but JAG (Military) was my second choice, since getting hired by this fucking agency is so tough.
And yet another prime example why America has the stupidest law enforcement people in the world, and an uneducated population that keeps them in power. Mr. Tibett calls himself educated….hmmm, I would know what his standard for retarded is, because he certainly sounds like one from any other country on this planet.
Mr Tibett: Get some anger management, get some help, or you will find yourself 60, alone, miserable and even more pathetic than you are now. But I guess you will just keep on being the braindead person you are, and play with your gun and rant on how pleased you are with yourself on your delusional power trip. Get a life my fellow stippy reader.
while mr tibett has a ‘unique’ way of expressing himself, and i certainly don’t agree with all of what he says, many american men do tend to put japanese women on a pedestal then complain when the sex dries up.
i’ve had success by just telling women what my sexual expectations are(3 – 5x a week) , letting them know that i’m focused on their pleasure, and moving on from there.
TAXED MAN:
You know, if was very angry for a long time, but anger management only made me more angrier. And please fool, compared to me, you are perhaps a moron; You have no clue what it takes to be a Fed Agent and how dare a couch potato punk like you insult the brave REAL MEN and Women putting their lives on the line everyday. What are you, one of these “English” teaching gaijin? I only wrote it in a language so that someone with your extremely limited intellect may be able to grasp the concept of the story.
Now down to business. MITA BOY, I think 3-5 days a week is good! and you are a stand up guy taking care of business.
Keep it real ya’ll.
As a black professional woman, I am ashamed of the image that Tibett put out. You sound no better than a kindergartner who can not have his way. If anger management didn’t help, maybe you should commit yourself to a nice federally funded institution. Our government is foolish enough to pay you to be a DEA? ……. I’m sorry… I had to take a minute…. I just puked a little… Your attitude leaves a bad taste in my mouth… Tib, your attitude and lack of respect for women is a disgrace, not only to you, but to your mother who I am sure thinks she should’ve have chosen the coat hangar.
By the way, America does have one of the stupidest law enforcement SYSTEMS in the world. I cannot put down the individuals who work hard to support families, but I can’t stand to see people like you who make everyone else’s hard work not worth a damn…
You’re a lucky man. A better woman would have sprinkled arsenic in your donburi…
Professional Black Women, it is sad that you are ashamed of yourself. You see, your lack of pride of simply being a black person is why the world will always treat blacks like third class citizen, rather than the powerful nubians we really are. But this is not about race…its about you not accepting that all men are not pussy whipped weaklings ready to get with the self righteous “woman movement” busllshit that has overshadowed real men in America.
Some questions to you:
1. Have you ever served in the Armed Forces?
2. Have you ever been shot, while on duty, trying to clear black neighborhoods of drug dealers?
3. Have you ever volunteer your time in inner cities to help old people; minister positive goals to young black youths?
4. Have you ever been civil justice?
You see, I picture you as one of the same prissy cows, thinking because they travelled to a fucking foreign land it gives them the right to use Japanese alphabet as a Forum Post name. You are not Japanese and I highly doubt you are anything other than a self centered bitch who has never done a day of self act to help others. I have seen and dealt with your kind and Sista….you aint pretty. And by the way…my mother was a bitch! And Daddy did beat her ass.
My relationship with my Japanese woman is great. She knows her role………learn yours!
Interesting, while I served in the DEA we were forbidden to make comments on internet sites, claiming we were agency crew and making such public representations of our opinions.
wow times really are changing, I guess anyone is in now huh!
Aaaah, now its time to respond. If your lucky, you may learn something Tibs.
Ashamed of being black: never. Ashamed that you are black: YES!
I am proud to be of African descent. Everyday I find ways to bring myself closer to my African heritage. And not once have I ever been treated like a third class citizen. But you are right, this isn’t about race, its about your disregard for the rights of all human regardless of nationality.
Answers to your questions:
1. I was born in the Marines fool. After living that life, I think I have had my share of a parent that suffered mental disturbances in a war started by caucasians in power to benefit caucasians in power. I refuse to fall into that trap that America has set up for poor youth.
2. No, never been shot on duty. I work in a hospital sweetie. We don’t shoot each other. We help those who have been shot. Have you ever pulled a bullet out of a young black boy who got caught in the cross fire of drug dealers war? You would never know… People like you can only hurt, never heal.
3. I volunteer with NYPD auxilary. I volunteer at group homes, AIDS prevention programs….
4. Have I ever been civil justice….? No, I don’t think I have been civil justice, that’s not possible. I have however taken part in civil justice by showing up to jury duty and enjoying it.
You can picture me as a prissy cow… Cows can’t type. I can.
I have not travelled to A foreign land, I have travelled to MANY. I have to right to use whatever symbols I want to represent my name. I am not Japanese, but the guy I married is…. I am a bitch, and the things I do to help people are not “self-acts” as you put it, they are done because people need help and if they had to rely on you to do it, there would be a whole generation of black youths hanging from the rafters by their Nike laces.
I have dealt with YOUR kind before. Aint nothing sweeter than beating the ignorance out of a man with my two bare fists.
From your point of view, it wouldn’t be pretty…
PS- It would be just like an ugly man to attack a woman’s features without having an inkling of what she looks like.
And its Professional Black WOMAN, singular not plural.
DEA my ass…. It looks like the first letters that floated up in your soup became your profession… You should try harder to pick a job in your soup that fits you, like LOSER.
TRUCE TO ALL.
Yes Pango, times has changed, we are now DOHS.
What does DOHS stand for?
カミラ
Way to stand up for yourself. Just out of curiosity, and since this is a sexless thread, have you experienced sexlessness with your Japanese husband?
i haven’t experienced this sexlessness in japan, quite the opposite. are japanese people sexless when they are NOT in japan?
Ao,
I haven’t experienced sexlessness… I hope I never do. I feel bad for the men on this thread.
To other men on this thread:
I don’t know if this will help, but a woman is most easily aroused right before her period begins.
Downside is, if she suffers from PMS she’ll be a little more cranky than usual; so you may have to butter her up.
Another hint: no chocolate. If you want sex, stop letting her eat chocolate. The enzymes in chocolate replicate enzymes released during sexual activity. Don’t let Hershey have his way with your wife.
Women are visual: why not write an erotic story that stars you and your wife and give it to her page by page…
TALK to her. Everyone has been saying it. It can be effective.
Oh, and soft porn…. I know that sounds lame, but I only say soft because I don’t know other womens taste… find out what she likes and watch it with her…
Hi all,
I found this thread very interesting and informative, and would like to revive it for some updates.
I just got married myself last year to a lovely Japanese woman whom I love and am deeply committed to, but also found a simliar trend to what has been mentioned here – great sex before engagement, a waning during engagement, and then after a fantastic honeymoon a sudden drop in sex!!
We are both working hard at our jobs, so that may be the reason, but other comments and experinces are welcome … advice too ….
Joe Bloe,
Looking back at the mistakes I’ve made over the past 13+ years of marriage, I offer this piece of advice: deal with it now! My biggest mistake is that I kept putting off confronting the pitiful state of our sex life, hoping that it would improve on its own. I’m trying to deal with it now, but with four kids and habits ingrained, it’s only gotten harder. As you might imagine, our lives are now much more complex than they were when we were a newly maried couple. It takes guts, of course, to confront such issues, and I lacked those guts at that time — or that or I was simply guilty of a sort of lazy delusion. (It’s probably both!)
In any case, start dealing with it now, but also have patience. The few attempts I did make earlier on were done with kindness and understanding, but not with enough patience. I would too quickly give up on any real efforts and go back to just hoping that things would somehow improve on their own. Perhaps I often confused patience with lack of action.
If you really love her and your truly committed to this marriage, take action — and keep engaged with the issue — but have patience.
And never take advice from Mr. Tibitt!
a partial reprint of an article available on the net… keep the wheat throw out the chaff
[It’s almost laughable to hear foreign men talk about the sexual times they had with their Japanese spouse before marriage, and how now sex seldom occurs. These men are shocked and angry. Haven’t they realized that though many Japanese women appear sexy and attractive that they aren’t nearly as sexual as Western women? The statistics are everywhere; Japanese people don’t have sex as frequently as other cultures.
So what happened?
Japanese women are as smart as most women; they realize that one way to catch a man is through his penis. That means sex is bait! Japanese women don’t have the bait market cornered, no matter what culture sex has always been a tool to ‘hook’ a man. In many instances, the Japanese woman in fact hasn’t experienced the true pleasure of sex but just gave the foreign man what he wanted, no different than she would have done with a Japanese man. The difference between Japanese and Western women is that Western women may desire sex more frequently—again just look at the statistics.
However, with enough moans of excitement a man can be seduced into thinking he has found real love AND that he is a super lover. Amazing how unaware of the truth some men can be. For most men, the fact is that they aren’t fantastic lovers, so it’s easier for them to get hooked. If you are a man reading this, become a better lover and you won’t be caught by sex. A good lover truly focuses on the sexual and emotional needs of the woman. From the Japanese woman’s perspective, the foreign man is more polite and considerate than the ‘typical’ Japanese man because of his ‘ladies first’ attitude. So she is ‘willing’ to get married, even if the sex isn’t good—after which sex dwindles and the husband complains.
Now that she’s married why should she want sex? She has her husband, a gaijin man, her status symbol and the envy of many Japanese women. Sex wasn’t that good for her anyway. It was bait and it served it’s purpose. Amazing that foreign men don’t realize this fact. Now he’s trapped in a marriage and is angry because the sex has dried up. Wrongly, he faults her and tries to introduce sexual variety, basically what satisfies his fantasies and he hopes will satisfy her. The bottom line is that sex was never that good for her in the first place and he didn’t really satisfy nor develop a sexual need in her. Combine this with the time constraints of kids and possibly a job. The woman is just too tired and not interested enough to have sex with him.
A key thought, if sex isn’t good for her then there is absolutely no good reason for her to want sex. A woman should not have sex just because the man wants it; that isn’t a good enough reason. Good sex for a woman can be like their favorite food or dessert: if it’s good she will crave it and ask for it. ]
Thank you to both you of you for the supportive and advisory replies! This what I think these kinds of blogs can be – other’s experiences which let you know you are not alone and can help based on experience (not stereotypes), and also put the responsibility on looking at yourself first (ouch).
Are there also any foreign women who have Japanese spouses – I think that their perspective would be a welcome even more valuable and informative input? Thanks again.
I am sure most of you will agree that the way to a mans heart is through his stomach. Well, the way to a womans heart goes through her private parts. Get some olive oil and get buisy you guys. Lube it and get that plug in viberator going just as you stick it in her. Have her hold onto it so it hits her where she wants it. It isn’t in the way as much as you may think. Don’t leave home without it, even on vacation. 28 years later I am still married and still get it when I want it.
Those who think the whole problem with low-sex or no-sex marriages is due to techniques in bed don’t know what they’re talking about. I’ve tried just about everything you can imagine to make sure that sex is nothing but enjoyable for her. Those efforts have largely worked in that she loves what I do to and for her. The problem is that she does not respond in the way that I (and most people I know) would expect – e.g. “That was great! Let’s do it again!” . . . or “Thanks so much, Honey, for making me feel so good. Let me return the favor!” . . . or, best of all, “I love you.”
Those efforts, by the way, have always been done with loving words and gestures. In and out of bed, I’m constantly telling her how beautiful she is, how sexy she is . . . that she looks even better than on the day we married. And I really mean it — I’ve never said that just hoping that she’ll then “put out”. I love her dearly and would do anything for her. But maybe this goes to the heart of the problem: she doesn’t really love me and would not “do anything” for me. I hope that’s not true, but it probably is.
If that’s true, I wish she would at least TRY to love me. If you marry someone and even have kids with him/her, I would think that you would at least want to try to love that person. I do believe it’s possible for love to grow where none existed . . . or where it once was but has left . . . but such cases, you’ve got to put effort into it.
I know I sound pitiful (and that in this situation, I am, in fact, pretty damn pitiful!), but I guess that’s the way unrequited love goes. It’s one of the oldest stories around, and it frequently brings otherwise strong people to embarrassing states of weakness. If you never experience it, you’re lucky. If you declare yourself immune, you’ve got other issues you need to work on – besides, of course, your total lack of empathy!
Kakui,
Too much one-way-love only worsens the problem. Sometimes, you have to be an asshole. By all means, don’t give her a guilt trip about not loving you enough. One book I read and learned a lot from is called “How to Succeed with Women”. Much of the book is crap, and it focuses too much on getting sex, but I learned a lot about how women think and work, and what sort of things men should be doing and, more importantly, not doing.
In your case, I think the answer may be doing the opposite of what you are doing. However, I don’t know the specifics or what kind of person your wife is, so be careful of advice from strangers.
one thing i realized early on in life is that people generally don’t change very much after their teens.
i have been married, now divorced(had nothing to do with sex, she wanted to even after knowing the papers were going to be final) after not being to adjust to a personality trait that i chose to ignore before marriage. sex was very good, other aspects(that i ignored – my fault for doing so) weren’t tolerable. no hate there, we are still friends.
my only point is that men generally have a picture of who there wife is before they marry.
Kakui
[Those who think the whole problem with low-sex or no-sex marriages is due to techniques in bed don’t know what they’re talking about. I’ve tried just about everything you can imagine to make sure that sex is nothing but enjoyable for her. Those efforts have largely worked in that she loves what I do to and for her. The problem is that she does not respond in the way that I (and most people I know) would expect – e.g. “That was great! Let’s do it again!” . . . or “Thanks so much, Honey, for making me feel so good. Let me return the favor!” . . . or, best of all, “I love you.”]
please don’t be offended, but if she didn’t do it before marriage there’s no reason to expect it after marriage. if she did it before marriage reference my post number 124
Jeez, I feel really sorry for all these frustrated people! As I mentioned in my post#105, I am pretty happy with my marriage of two years to a Japanese woman. Maybe I should describe our relationship and some of you can see whether there are some shortcomings in your behavior/efforts.
1) I always tell my wife she is beautiful and sexy, at least 20 times a day.
2) I REALLY help with the housework, from laundry and dishwashing to vacuuming and cleaning the bathroom.
3) We do “dakko” at least once a day: she sits on my lap, facing me, one leg on each side of me and we hug each other for a long time, while talking about whatever we want.
4) Our sex mainly involves me going down on her until she comes at least two or three times, THEN we have intercourse, using different positions. For some reason, our sex never seems “old.” When she says thank you (sometimes she says “tensai”), I say “kochira koso” (me, too). As I said in my #105, our frequency is down a bit, now only two to three times on weekends. Frankly, anymore and I would get peformance anxiety.
5) I think massage is vital to a good relationship. It feels good and lets your partner know you care. You can massage her all over her body, don’t forget her face. Put your fingers in the back of her hair and lightly scratch her scalp.
6) You are going to groan at this, but I always open the car door for her and help her put on/take off her coat (especially in public!).
7) Buying presents is an art and an absolute must. I can’t say I have mastered it. She enjoys telling her friends about the unromantic gifts I have given her (don’t get her a coffee grinder for Christmas… even if you plan on using it yourself to make her fresh coffee every morning–yes, I do every morning).
That would be perhaps my CALL FOR HELP: what are some good, original, ROMANTIC, not too expensive gifts to give your Japanese wife? Yes, yes, I have already given flowers, jewelry (she lost that necklace) and sexy underwear.
HappyInJapan,
Good for you. Any guys who are thinking, “That’s too much work” or “It’s not worth the trouble” well you will reap what you sow. Don’t think of it as doing something for her, think of it as doing something for yourself. Kind of a wake up call for me, too. Time to start opening the car doors again.
I’ve tried to read through all these responses and find it curious that no one has considered that this isn’t about culture but about variability in libido and physiological responses to sexual stimulation. For the most part, the types of people who are likely to post responses to this article are the type in the same boat as the author.
If you consider that there are a lot people who are crazy about chocolate and some who are indifferent to it and accept that this is normal variation in tastes then it’s easy to believe that there are some people for whom sex is simply not all that appealing, particularly in light of the time it takes and the effort that goes into it.
I’m neither Japanese nor married to a Japanese person so I can’t speak from experience but mainly from logic and an understanding of psychology. It does make sense that there will be some people who will be indifferent to sexual activity and others who may eventually grow bored with it no matter what because, no matter how many different roads you take, the destination is always the same. (I’m not saying this is true for me but just it makes sense.)
I have talked to a fair number of foreign men with Japanese wives and girlfriends and I’ve been told many of their partners seem to have orgasms almost instantly. I’ve pondered whether or not there is a physiological difference for Japanese women or whether or not they’re culturally coached to fake it and never really develop a taste for sex as a pleasurable experience. I can’t say which and I can’t even say that this is true of more than a handful of women but it is food for thought.
I particularly wonder if there is something about the culture and the overt objectification of women sexually that may make them feel more put upon when men desire them. While women are objectified in most cultures, most of them aren’t exposed quite so freely and frequently to men reading explicit publications on trains, animation on T.V., or movies showing rape almost casually. This, coupled with the gropers on trains, may leave some of them feeling like pieces of meat. Could some of them be blamed for repressing their sexual sides because they feel almost oppressive attention from men who they have no interest in? Men tend to feel that women are flattered by their sexual interest but too much of it tends to start making women want anything but because they start to feel you only value their bodies.
I’m not making any proclamations or reaching any conclusions but I think it may be useful to look past the obvious answers Most people who have issues with sex either have a physiological issue or a psychological issue that they don’t understand the roots of.
Well, Shari sure gives us some food for thought. It’s always dangerous to generalize about a whole culture from the experiences of a few people. That’s a very good point that mainly people with the same problem are going to be responding to a blog like this, which gives the appearance of unanimity when it’s really only a small sample.
Do Japanese women have orgasms quicker than other women? Are they just faking orgasms? In my very limited experience it does seem true that Japanese women are more wild in bed and really get into it, resulting in quicker and more orgasms. This might have to do with the interracial element making the sex more exciting?
Early in our relationship, my wife seemed to come very quickly, we would have many “restarts” after orgasms, when she would have to catch her breath, and she claimed she had “come” many, many times. But more recently, I have noticed it takes much longer for her to get an orgasm. We seem to get into cycles of her “getting somewhere”, only to have her noticeably relax, but when she finally does come (or “go” as the Japanese like to say), the orgasm does seem to last longer. She told me this is exactly what is happening. She is simply holding off on coming as long as she can to heighten the orgasm when it finally comes. All I know is, my tongue, jaw and fingers are about ready to fall off!
Is she faking it? I don’t think she is faking it. She often signals her interest in sex (by wearing something sexy to bed or grabbing my privates in the morning) and sometimes she complains we don’t have sex enough. Would she do these things if she didn’t like sex?
I think Shari is right in saying we each have our own issues regarding sex, stemming from our upbringing, and physical things come into it, too. But maybe where I live is different from the big cities in Japan. I don’t notice the pervasive sexual fixation here that Shari is describing as typical of Japan. I have never seen any simulated rape scenes on TV. I know the Mangas in the bookstores can be pretty hardcore. I can imagine unwanted sexual advances could annoy women, but I don’t see how that should turn them off from sex in a loving relationship.
I’m from the US, and been married to a Japanese woman for 10 years and lived/worked in Japan for 12. Your article’s topic hit close to home.
First of all, for all of you who aren’t even in Japan, nor married to Japanese, nor have kids yet (that’s a big one) your ideas are interesting, but are nowhere near my experiences or anyone in the same boat as I who I’ve talked with. The guys married to Japanese who have kids fall along the same lines as I – Before marriage/before kids: good sex, after marriage/after kids: little/no sex.
And I have other Japanese guy friends who I talk to too. Same story. Unless you’re still working on more kids, there’s not a lot going on under the futon. But probably a for more practical and mundane reasons than people might think. Without going into a lot of psychological conjecture I’ll list my top 3 reasons.
1. Kids sleep with parents until they’re in Junior High (or old enough to WANT to sleep by themselves)
2. Spouses have drastically different schedules. Most “Salarymen” still work until late at night, regardless of what you read about how “official” working hours have been reduced in Japan.
3. Spouses barely have any time alone or privacy. See 1 and 2.
Overcoming those obstacles are hard enough. Combine that with the fact that my wife seems perfectly satisfied with being JUST a mother, rather than a wife and mother, and the product of this equation doesn’t lead to a lot of copulation. Other husbands, both Japanese and foreigner alike tell the same story. Japanese wives switch roles apon becoming a mother.
Thanks Simeon for your honet comment – well now I am REALLY depressed – given that this kind of blog attracts those who are of like mind or have the same ‘problem’ (so its a small sample, or not… – I have a sneaky suspicion of under-reporting on this), how extensive is this really? I am getting hints now about making babies on a virtual desert of sexual inactivity ….. I feel like I am being/have been had. More wine pleeeease.
Oh well.
@Joe Bloe
Don’t give up yet, my wife works too, so it makes it extra difficult. And I really haven’t been able to put a lot of time into getting the activity back, for obvious reasons. Maybe other people who are in a different situation have some more hopeful experiences for you.
But at least it shouldn’t be a stretch of the imagination as to why married couples in Japan find “alternative” sources for sex.
@Simeon
Thanks – I don’t intend to give up as i love my wife dearly, and you are right, not having the time to even try is exacerbating the non-activity too. Anyway, I feel like now I am going through each of the first 4 of Kubler-Ross’ emotional behavior stages, at various stages if that is possible :
* Denial (this isn’t happening to me!)
* Anger (why is this happening to me?)
* Bargaining (I promise I’ll be a better person if…)
* Depression (I don’t care anymore)
* Acceptance (I’m ready for whatever comes [or whoever doesn't in this case ...] )
I don’t think these apply only to physical health …. there is still loss in this. Anyway, my appreciation of farce and irony is what keeps me going, and I appreciate you sharing your point of view.
I was searching for japanese marriage statistics for an assignment and this comes up o.O.
God dang I’m appualed at this perversion.
=/
I am a foreign woman who was married to a Jap. man for many years and I can say that aftr 3 years of marriage the sex went out of the door. We were like roommates until I decided to divorce him. and even then he couldn’t understand why I wanted to leave him, he would say just don’t ask me for anything and we can stay together. So for him it was normal to be sexless in his mid thirties because that is how most Japanese men are. No libido.
I live in jpn and this country is a desert for women.
And I must say I am quite a curvy woman with a good size derriere and a big bust, most men aren’t intersted in that, they all like these fake blondes who look like cheap barbie dolls and speak in a squeaky voice.
An advice to foreign women who are thinking of coming to this sexless land, don’t come unless you like these nerdy, ugly men with pencil size penises who are scared of a foreign woman.
Jade,
Was it good at the beginning? So many of the posts here talk about gaijin men who had great sex at the beginning but then it dried up like a puddle in the desert. Is it the same for gaijin women? Any idea what did it?
Wow Jade harsh words… You sound awfully bitter. But you shouldn’t classify all Japanese men negatively because you’ve had a bad experience. You say Japanese men don’t like women with bust and rear, but that’s not true… And unless you’ve had sex with every man out here you can’t determine that they all have pencil dicks. Because when you stoop so low as to refer to a whole group of men that way, its easy for someone to say that you’re lying about curves, and that you’re just a chubby woman who doesn’t know how to attract a man sexually.
Japanese men aren’t scared of foreign women… they are actually very polite and they speak to you when given the chance. You sure your bitterness doesn’t scare them off…?
Choose your words carefully.
This has been an interesting thread to read and of course very familiar to hear these stories, how many gaijin have been caught out in the trap.
But the answer is quiet simple in terms of keeping the marriage sexlife active, it is just very alien and sometimes even repugnant to westerners.
When you marry a japanese women you really are the lord and master, their society over hundreds of years has evolved like that.
If you stop acting like that your wife will lose respect for you and will simply become a robot. Since the end of the war and the emergence of the salaryman this has become the norm in many japanese marriages as well as cross cultural ones.
If a gaijin learns early that sex is something that you can demand any time from your wife without questions or reasons why not and that you can order your wife to the bedroom at the drop of a hat, and that this is what she EXPECTS from you and what she ENJOYS, then she will stay the beautiful passionate women you married.
if you tenderly ask her if she is “up for it” chances are she will say no or be too shy and over time your sex life will die. Dont give herthe option and tell her what to do sexually and the passion never dies.
If you have a problem with that then you have married the wrong nationality plain and simple. east is east.
not all japanese men have fallen into the weak salaryman trap. a very wise japanese man of the old school who was a student of mine taught me that and saved me many years of unhappy marriage. My wife is my best friend and the hottest women i have met and after seven years and one kid we still at the very very least have sex three or four times a week.
Good call. Many women get turned on by a man who knows what he wants and takes it. You can be a nice guy the rest of the time (and I suggest you do, since modern Japanese girls are not happy to play the servant role like their mothers did) but when the lights go out you should take a more dominating role. It gets them aroused. You need to take it when you want it. Pure sexual desire that can’t be stopped is quite sexy to a lot of women. You just need to know where to draw the line. If she ever says no in a serious voice you need to stop. But remember that sex is animal in nature, and should never begin with a discussion as to whether or not to have sex.
This reminds me of a funny tale. I had a Brazilian friend in Japan before and he was telling me about his first sexual experience with a Japanese woman. She started moaning “yamete, yamete”. So he actually stopped. The girl was like, “WTF? I didn’t mean it literally.”
I`m from Scotland have a Japanese wife,she is a very kind and caring person and we had a good sex life,but we got married 3 month`s ago and I have noticed that our sex life has taken a dive,I will not explain to much about sex,but We really don`t have much of a sex life now,so I can understand the above comments on this issue.I really don`t know why this is the case,Honestly i believed this was just our case till I came across this site and seen there is many people that have this same problem. I love my wife and also see her as a friend,though I believe a wife should be a best friend and also lover.But what can we do? Loose the love of our lives because they don`t have as much sex with us,that is not good and would be very wrong,but I do feel sex is and should be important in a relationship and I guess we need to also accept WE did agree to have a Japanese G/F and wife,so we need to find something that works for all of us in our relationships.though that is hard,right guys? anyway thank you for reading my message
oh and btw,I live in Japan with her..sorry just forgot to say
colin
please pardon me, would you mind answering the following…
how old are you?
how many non-japanese girlfriends have you had?
how many japanese girlfriends did you have before your wife?
how long did you date before marriage?
Mitaboy
I`m 31 also My wife is the same age.and For the Girlfriends that I`ve had,around 4 that were western.and to answere you about how many Japanese g/f`s i had,well just one before My wife,though that was not really a good example of a G/f,as It was long distance,but we did stay together for many months .. and i was dating My wife for around 1 and a half years before we got married.. so how about you? do you have a Japanese wife?
colin thanks
not married. have had several j-gfs. i’m studying this phenomenon and have discussed it with sevral j-girls & guys.
are you in tokyo?
i really would like to chat with you outside of the board
Yeah I live in Tokyo,Koto ku area…are you in Tokyo?
in minato-ku. we could meet at shinagawa station, or ginza. if we chose a location, date and time that might work
Ginza is best for me over the next few days i will be kinda busy,but monday will be fine..do you know where Bic camera is in Ginza? and anytime is ok for me ..
yes. i work in front of bic camera how about 3:00pm. i can meet you at the main entrance. i’ll be wearing a suit. not being modest, i’ll be the best dressed gaijin there. almost like i stepped out of a magazine. very easy to pick out.
ok 3pm just outside Bic camera,and maybe you`ll be the 2nd best dressed Gaijin lol
are you American? British? I`m from Scotland..
ha hah ha
i’m american. great!!! don’t mind being second. so many gaijin dress so poorly.
08/20/07 @ 1500 monday
c yAA!
ok man..see you monday @3pm
Mitaboy, we would certainly like to hear more about what it is that you are looking into. I’m glad that you have arranged this meeting here, but not so sure others would like to know. I might set up a forum where we can all privately message each other soon.
In the mean time, if you both agree, I can send you each other’s email addresses?
great!! i agree, please give him my email address
Hello my friends. I saw this page on google and came to visit since I too am in romantic courtship of the Japanese woman. I don’t have problem with the sexual gratification of her. She loves the love I give to her all the time too. Maybe Czech are good lover like me and so the woman wants to have the big thing in her all the time.
Thank you
Mitaboy, Colin,
How was last week? Anything for this board and its avid readers?
steve88
the meeting didn’t come off with colin due to scheduling conflicts.
however, would be interested in meeting anyone that could make it to ginza, or shinagawa
Sorry Mita
This is my last entry in this site as I feel there is people here that do wish to discuss this matter in a serious way and recently there are just fools that use racist views about women ..This is supposed to be a place to talk about the above issue but as usual people come here and bring it down ..the internet has became a joke and that is due to people like 158 and 159…this is NOT the kind of views I appreciate ….just shows me how far society has fell….there is good people here and people that have sense,but for the most part some people have spoiled it and I dont want to be part of it..at first I just wanted to see if other people with Japanese wifes had that issue,but now it is between me and my wife,which has become a lot better with talking to her about it,as I was scared before to ask why there was some problems,which was my fault,as I should have spoke to her before..but now we are both happy..colin signing off…..
Comment from Blue: All the offending posts have now been removed. It is a shame that some people stop the discussion with racism. Don’t leave us Colin.
I’m sorry that those kinds people that scare off real persons who come to actually talk. I hope things work out for the best Colin, Good Luck!
I’m pretty happy for you Colin. It sounds like you had an issue with your wife and decided to talk to her about it. That’s often the hardest thing to do but it has got to be the best medicine. Even if your wife is of the same culture it is no easy task communicating accurately with her. I always try to communicate more rather than less to prevent problems but it is always a struggle. Good for you Colin.
I rarely delete comments. They have to be pretty bad (or plain moronic) to make me remove them, but the racist ones here were not tolerable.
This site should be active communication on Japanese related topics. Heated discussion and wildly different ideas – yes, plain boring racism – no.
To all, if I have personally offended anyone during my argument with the previous poster, it was not intentional. I get a little defensive over things like that sometimes. Sorry.
As a guy who almost married a Japanese girl many years ago, then married and divorced a Japanese-English Canadian, I have to laugh at some of these posts.
Post 19 could apply to just about any marriage to any woman.
If you want passion, sex and love, have a girlfriend.
If you want obligations, duty and tedium, well, ….get married.
After a long custody battle, I have my kids half the time, and pay a significant amount of child support, but I am free (living in America). Had I divorced in Japan, I would have my kids torn away from me in a heartbeat with absolutely no hope of ever seeing them again. Life would be worthless.
Times have changed – be selfish. That is something modern men seem to have difficulty doing. God only knows women have been conditioned to think for themselves, after 40 years of feminist indoctrination.
If you are living in wonderful Japan, have a few girlfriends and enjoy life. The only people concerned about shoshika are bureaucrats. Live life, enjoy your girlfriend, and take advantage of the pleasures life in Japan has to offer.
乾杯！
an interesting observation is that of the japanese women(all single and under 40 y.o.) with whom i’ve disussed this issue of sexual frequency among married couples all have said it is a case by case situation. perhaps using their married friends as a basis for their conclusion OR were they just imagining?
however all the japanese men have agreed with the general commentary voiced here.
it would be interesting to look at data that measures the sexual satisfaction of married japanese women.
I beg to differ about the cause of it all. Maybe it is not the wives’ fault. Maybe it is the man – or should I say, the society that he accepts working in. Have you ever heard the hours that those guys work? I worked for a couple of years in a Japanese company myself and I tell you, it certainly had a toll on my sex life. I didn’t get home until midnight and as soon as I did I was hitting the sack. No surprise that salarymen don’t get much action. If Japan is serious about increasing the birth rate then they need to do something about working hours. I’d love to see similar data for investment bankers and consultants in the US. It can’t be far off…
Richmond, You’ve hit the nail on the head. My Japanese husband could have even taught Mitaboy a thing or two before he became a salaryman. Now that he’s working 12 to 15 hours a day, 6 days a week–um…when are we supposed to get it on? Everytime I read articles about the declining birth rate, I just want to shake someone and say, “Duh!”
Yeah for sure..Japanese companies should be ashamed ,too much work and too many hrs a day..I`m suprised that anyone has a baby here…though I`m glad my Japanese wife comes back around 9pm,hey people ,it could be worse as some of you will know ..
Hi,
I am somewhat relieved by what I have read here because I realize I am not alone in my misery.
I have been married for 9 years to a Japanese and live in Tokyo. We have no kids because they don’t make themselves. I get a stale piece of bread about once every 3 – 6 months… For the past year or so my wife is really talking about how much she wants a kid…and has sex once, gets her period, and gets dissapointed only to wait another 3 months before wanting to try again.
I am so dissatisfied with my marriage that I am pretty much glad not to have more ties to my wife at this point. I just want to end my marriage and start over. I have brought up the topic in serious conversation lately but my wife just says something to the effect that marriage is permanent and there is no getting out. Any advice from those who have went through divorce?
Boku
My wife and I met in Tokyo and now live in California. We’ve had this discussion numerous times. Initially I was somewhat pushy and she got defensive. However after 14 years of great marriage and 2 kids we joke about this topic.
There’s no question that Japanese women need or desire sex less than Western women. I have no idea if it’s purely cultural or if there is some biological component. This is on average of course – I’m sure there are many horny Japanese wives too, but they probably can’t cook. Life is full of tradeoffs.
I’ve gotten used to it, or perhaps my testosterone levels have been tapering off. Now I focus on quality, not quantity. If your relationship is healthy then the sex will ebb and flow with your biorhythms. For me sometimes it’s once a week, other times once a month. I don’t really keep track of it or push the issue and she appreciates this attitude, so if I’m patient then eventually she’ll have the energy and inclination and the sex will be fantastic. Earlier I tried a different approach which focused on quantity and not quality. I’d politely ask if I could stick it in (to be crude), and most of the time she would accomodate me but obviously wasn’t into it. After a while I realized that if I self serviced in these situations then she would be more likely to initiate hot sex in the future.
This is an interesting thread. Everybody’s situation is different. I think the bottom line is if you have an otherwise solid marriage, then you don’t enjoy the infrequent sex but you eventually accept it. My advice to Boku above is don’t have a kid until you come to terms with this problem because if it’s only once every three months now, it will be once a year after the kid is born. On the other hand, maybe your wife is the type of Japanese woman who will tolerate her husband having his sexual needs met elsewhere, as long as he’s a responsible father and bringing home the bacon. (More likely the case if you live in Japan than in the US). I doubt that’s what you were looking for in a wife, but it could be an interesting option if she has other wonderful qualities that keep you in love with her. Good luck to everyone!
since it may be unlikely that i’ll meet any of you as i’m in central tokyo, i have a question.
does this issue cut across soci, academic, economic, ethnic lines?
do chinese, korean, spanish, african or african-american men experience these issues regarding sexlessness?
how does the background of the man and the japanese woman factor into this?
Well, the only people in Japan that are sexless are Black people.
Interesting….. so, SecretLurker…. How did you come upon that “intelligent” deduction…?
Secret Lurker,
I’m a black too. I get lots of it. But, I understand what you mean, in the sense that black men make *lurve* – we don’t just “have sex”.
I can only assume that you mean that you are sexless in this way, or that you are insecure brother. If that’s the case, we can’t help you, go home to where you came from, or keep jacking off alone.
i was hoping for more helpful commentary than ‘SecretLurker’s’ # 174, which on the surface seems it may be racist as it isn’t supported at all.
No, “lurve”. I am Black. Japanese people hate Black people. Everyone knows this is a fact.
>>the global average of 103
Good lord. Somewhere there’s someone with a huge grin raising the average at the opposite end of the scale from myself.
i like to feel the cool soft wind in my hair. But when i do the puggle wump churned at me and blasted a fruit filled Belch down my ear.
the succulent beast moaned and moaned as the Geisha girl stood up and it feasted on her every droplet.
i was transfixed. it groaned its flavour and at last the japan girl was throbbed no more.
mitaboy i want to bubble you. at will.
Hi guys! Read all this thread in digestible chunks of course! I’m married to wonderful Masami who’s been living in London for 4 years now leaving there age 30. 4 breaks with convention for her: marrying me, leaving Japan, being creative and of course no wish to return.
So, you may think, pretty well adapted to at least the fundamentals of western ways. Think again – she remains so bone crushingly aligned to home culture that I have marks on my hands where ive tried bending an iron rod of resistance. That said, I chose to marry her so I have no right to spew my liberal and alien ways onto her if they are not wanted.
Yet, shouldn’t one learn to adapt at least an inch or two towards your hosts culture?
This is where the sex comes in: The trajectory sounds yawningly familiar – rabbits before getting hitched, then slow burn to a trickle from there. But my gripe is her absolute blindness to ANY form of contraception other than rubber. Where do I start and do I really have a case here? I mean being married should bring certain privileges and compromises shouldn’t it? The bedroom is place these apply I think.
So I ask you guys – how does one put the case convincingly, with empathy for her point (just as a lever you understand) – in short, what’s the smartest way to get in the sack without having to sell my soul or visit Boots every week.
London, that sounds as though you two have got it the other why around. My memories of J-girls were that I always wanted to use the rubber and they never did.
As to your question, did she say why? (eg. is she afraid of an STD or something?)
this is reprinted here with permission:
[It’s almost laughable to hear foreign men talk about the sexual times they had with their Japanese spouse before marriage, and how now sex seldom occurs. These men are shocked and angry. Haven’t they realized that though many Japanese women appear sexy and attractive that they aren’t nearly as sexual as Western women? The statistics are everywhere; Japanese people don’t have sex as frequently as other cultures.
So what happened?
Japanese women are as smart as most women; they realize that one way to catch a man is through his penis. That means sex is bait! Japanese women don’t have the bait market cornered, no matter what culture sex has always been a tool to ‘hook’ a man. In many instances, the Japanese woman in fact hasn’t experienced the true pleasure of sex but just gave the foreign man what he wanted, no different than she would have done with a Japanese man. The difference between Japanese and Western women is that Western women may desire sex more frequently—again just look at the statistics.
However, with enough moans of excitement a man can be seduced into thinking he has found real love AND that he is a super lover. Amazing how unaware of the truth some men can be. For most men, the fact is that they aren’t fantastic lovers, so it’s easier for them to get hooked. If you are a man reading this, become a better lover and you won’t be caught by sex. A good lover truly focuses on the sexual and emotional needs of the woman. From the Japanese woman’s perspective, the foreign man is more polite and considerate than the ‘typical’ Japanese man because of his ‘ladies first’ attitude. So she is ‘willing’ to get married, even if the sex isn’t good—after which sex dwindles and the husband complains.
Now that she’s married why should she want sex? She has her husband, a gaijin man, her status symbol and the envy of many Japanese women. Sex wasn’t that good for her anyway. It was bait and it served it’s purpose. Amazing that foreign men don’t realize this fact. Now he’s trapped in a marriage and is angry because the sex has dried up. Wrongly, he faults her and tries to introduce sexual variety, basically what satisfies his fantasies and he hopes will satisfy her. The bottom line is that sex was (possibly)never that good for her in the first place and he didn’t really satisfy nor develop a sexual need in her. Combine this with the time constraints of kids and possibly a job. The woman is just too tired and not interested enough to have sex with him.]
To London – this is a generalization but I think Japanese women tend to be highly sensitive to pharmaceuticals. When we lived in Tokyo, my wife (who was my girlfriend at that time in the mid 90′s) agreed to see a gynocologist in Singapore to get birth control pills. It really messed up her monthly cycles and she became irritable and started gaining weight. She stopped taking them after about a year. Now we have been married 14 years with 2 kids, and in our mid 40′s we don’t need to worry about birth control but I still put on a rubber before ejaculating because she doesn’t like the feeling of leakage. I’m not sure if this is common, but it’s frustrating since judging from porn you’d think all Japanese women want their partner to come on their face.
some of what’s going to be said will seem mean spirited, it isn’t meant to be.
pornography is usually written by men for men(look at the credits). so, why would a man think that, “all Japanese women want their partner to come on their face.”? just because a woman “allows” an activity doesn’t mean she “enjoys” it. it’s porn, don’t think she enjoys it, she was most likely paid(most of it is acting). ask your girl if she enjoys it and watch what her body tells you, do not listen to her words. i haven’t met any women that wants or enjoys cum on her face!
empirical observation: judging by physical appearances and personality, many of the men who marry japanese women have had few sexual experiences in their native country. he comes to japan, “gets lucky” with a japanese girl, gets “pussy whipped”, gets married, then gripes about the lack of sexual intimacy after he realizes she isn’t as “interested”(to what degree was she really interested? read post 184 again) in sex as before.
for any japanese women reading this and thinking, “western men aren’t sexually mature!” you are 100% wrong! men are just men, all over the world(even in japan.
here are the facts. women want sex. men want sex. men and women want sex for different reasons.
please check your dictionary, different does not equal immature, just as different does not equal, “bad”. now, check your dictionary for mature. men are different, women are different, that is life, it is impossible for them to look at life, or mature in exactly the same way because they are different. maybe, we can understand each other better because we are creatures that think, but remember that we are different.
for western men married to japanese women:
a. be honest with your japanese spouse about your sexual desire.
b. for those married in “christian weddings” remember your marriage vows state, “for better or worse”. so this is the “worse” part, tell her about it. you may have to live with it. realize that most japanese people aren’t christians, the wedding is a show, entertainment, and has no moral value, this is true even for many christians.
c. seek counseling together. let her know your dissatisfaction and don’t expect her to change. from limited observations japanese women don’t change their sexual attitudes with their western husbands often. she might change with counseling, but do not expect it.
d. tell her that you will seek sexual satisfaction elsewhere.
e. get a divorce
for unmarried men reading this, do your homework before you marry a japanese woman. expect that your sex life will decline just as statistics indicate. expect it and don’t complain about it.
the better option is to talk about the expectations that every man and woman has of marriage – before you get married. then as two adults you can make a better decision. personally, i try to be focused on my lover’s sexual pleasure first, her pleasure before mine, but i tell her very straight and direct, “if we get married, i will divorce you if our sexual life changes.” if she decides to marry, she knows what my expectations are. be direct with your japanese lover before you get married.
for men and women do your homework before you marry.
japanese women and western men need to study each others culture before they marry. but men should study more and look at the sexual statistics about japan which are quite clear, just about everyone in the world has more sex than japanese. you may want to ask,”why”?
western man have more of responsibility to study the japanese culture because in many cases the Japanese woman living in japan won’t. Having consulted in japan for a while now, it’s fascinating that japanese people don’t ask, “why…?” often enough. perhaps the japanese still think, “it’s japan and the rest of the world. the rest of the world isn’t really that important, we are japanese!”
Mitaboy – I was just being facetious with the face comment. Sorry if that didn’t come across (pardon the puns). It was a lame attempt to make the point for “London” that it’s indeed interesting how pervasive condoms are in Japan. I think everyone reading this would be happy to come *inside* our lovely wives, not *on* our lovely wives.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/08/20/health/main637523.shtml
I have been married to a Japanese woman for more than 2 years and have children. I do not have the problems you guys are describing but read your posts with a lot of interest.
My view on the marriage is very much echoing Dan’s post #38 here: http://www.gaijinpot.com/bb/showthread.php?t=3170
I think there are many wonderful aspects of a Japanese gf and wife so maybe the sex trouble described in this blog is a bit of a trade off.
Also worth noting, I would argue, Japanese actually have an old culture and a very clear value system. The western countries are confused. This statement is not intended as a big generalization (I know it sounds…) but if you swallow that point it may help to see why it is difficult to appreciate differences is your wife.
Dan’s post fragments
[...You are all approaching this from a Western POV. Isn't it perhaps possible that the women are receptive to their own culture and influenced by the 99% of the people who surround them and enforce typical Japanese views. If you wanted a Western wife, it would probably have been better to stay in ...
...Its a really incredible thing to marry someone from a culture as different as Japan, and I think you must all be very strong to have overcome all the cultural barriers and family problems that are almost certainly endemic... ]
Good luck to all of us.
“Japanese men are as perverted (if not more perverted) than those in other countries”
Yep that’s pretty much true! I’m an aussie woman married to a Japanese guy and i can say he’s pretty much thinking sex 24/7. He’s pretty much ready to go when i say the word so for us, our sex life is not a problem.
I would say our marriage is next to perfect as we never fight and we always express our love to each other, he even says “i love you” every day which most japanese guys never say once in their lives!
I would never consider cheating on him, he’s the only one for me. I also would never consider him cheating on me, to the point where i told him if he did i would do a lorena bobbitt!! And he knows i’m serious about it. I do trust him. He watches his porn videos and that’s about it. I’m against porn really but i figure it’s his culture, and it’s better than him doing something on the sly.
As for the guy who said “When my wife rolls over and says she’s not in the mood for the third week in a row, what else do these girls expect us to do?” you are really cruisin’ for a bruisin mate!!
Have a little bit of compassion, it’s not all about you!!
I’m 35 and my wife 42. We have 2 kids – 6 and 4 and generally lead a good life. But it’s the same story as many of you have already described. We had great sex before marriage but slowly after the first child it diminished. She has never refused but she just doesn’t take any initiative and seems non fused about the whole thing. It makes me feel like I’m doing all the work, showing all the affection and generally I feel unloved. Yep we’ve done the toys and what not but it’s still the same.
I’ve told her that I’m not happy with our sex life and we’ve had talks about it. From what I can gather it seems it’s because of the kids and the stress of life that she doesn’t feel sexy. This is not just a Japanese thing; I think all women get this, no matter what country. Where a man can virtually ‘drop n go’, a women needs the emotional side along with it. If she’s not feeling right it just won’t happen. Women aren’t like us. They need an emotional side to get inspired. For most men, just by looking at there hot wife is inspiration enough! But for a woman it’s a much more complex process.
We don’t go out to restaurants much more and I think she doesn’t feel like a desirable sexy woman that often any more. I think after washing clothes/dishes and constantly looking after the kids all day it takes it out of you. A constant stress all day. For the woman to instantly put that aside and have sex just doesn’t happen. It takes time. A woman needs to feel like a sexual desirable woman before she’ll be coming on to you.
But I’ve noticed that my wife is really hard to talk to. And I have all the problems a lot of you describe. She seems quite closed at times and is not so easy to read as western girls I’ve known. She seems selfish in some ways but in others she’s the most caring and giving lady in the world. She uses the Japanese don’t like da da da line as well. Mysterious is one word that comes to mind. Is that part of my attraction to her?
At the end of the day any marriage takes hard work. And it’s even harder if your from completely different cultures. OK sex is good to start with cause its so different and new and fresh. But then reality comes hitting home. But if you really care for the person you decided to marry this is what advice I offer…
Be patient.
Love your wife and try to understand her by talking about things.
Take her out. wine and dine her. Let her dress in nice stuff. Treat her like a lady. Set up situations that will make her feel special.
Talk talk talk
Give her time to be happy within her self.
Remember these are only my opinions and I’m not saying I’m right. Hope it helps and best of luck.
Wow, this has been a very interesting thread to read.
I wasn’t sure if to post or not. I don’t think I fit into the “wife” category, I’m 20 years old and thus marriage doesn’t seem to be in the near future. I think I must also clarify that we live outside of Japan, although I did live there alone two years (18 until a couple of months ago) and plan to go back next spring to continue with university.
My parents are Japanese and according to my older sister, they haven’t had intimacy since our younger brother was conceived. One of the things I have noticed about them is that mother calls my father “papa” when Western couples call each other “darling” and “honey” and such. I do agree in the familiar/sibling feeling. Even now, with my sister being 24, me 20 and my parents, sometimes I feel we are four siblings trying to raise Tetsuo (10).
When I read the post about Japanese women being aroused by men who are dominant, I felt slightly offended, but then commenting that with my older sister, we realized it is true. Japanese women expect dominant, powerful men. Of course, there’s a line between saying “Turn this way”, which is dominant but respectful, and just yanking women around to do whatever position the man desires, which I would find abusive (men, specially Western, take advantage of us being petite, I feel).
Romanticism is a big deal. Japanese women are aware of our appeal to Western men , especially those who like anime or videogames. I have felt, with certain Western boyfriends I had, that I was just a realization of their “Japanese anime girl” fantasies, and I found that very offensive; which led to a downturn in libido. I suppose this applies to younger men mostly.
But as I was saying, Western men, and specially those not in Japan, where Japanese women are a “rarity” should try to make a girl feel special and unique, create a sense of “union” by elping her with her tasks, as you must know she certainly helps you with yours.
I hope this is of some help.
I would also like to add that I was truly disgusted my Mr.Tibbet’s comments, he reminds me of the reasons my parents gave me to not marry or get romantically involved with Western men.
thanks azu!!
nice to have a japanese woman’s perspective.
you mentioned you live outside of japan and that you’ve only live in japan two years, do you think your thinking is typically ‘japanese’ regarding sex? in what country do you live?
i hope the site’s administrator doesn’t mind(please edit or delete if inappropriate)
it would be interesting to have your perspectives on the articles posted on the site below(an excerpt of which is posted here)
http://www.1001kisses.com/
many of the readers of the above site are japanese women in japan. so you opinion would be interesting.
Hey Azu, are you Azuma too?
What part of Japan are you from?
@ azu (kelly)
No, Azu is a nickname that has a long story :3 My name is Miki. My family comes from Hiroshima.
@ mitaboy
I think my thinking is somewhere between my Japanese upbringing and me being youthful. I think I was brought up as traditionally as my parents could in a foreign country (they even put me into a Japanese school). My views on sex have a large Western influence, but me and my older sister have noticed that things sexually between my parents are very far from active.
For a very long time, I remember, my mother slept on a futon in me and my older sister’s bedroom “in case we had bad dreams”.
Our country is Costa Rica (that’s in Central America, I’m used to people not knowing much about it). This is an Spanish-speaking country, so I take the chance to say sorry if my English seems a little confusing.
About the book, the short part available in the main page had this fragment that caught my attention:
“If a woman likes you then she may want sex. If a woman loves you, her own sexual satisfaction is less important.”
I thought I was the only one like that! My current boyfriend is very worried during sex if he thinks he’s about to reach an orgasm before I do, and I always tell him “don’t worry, go ahead”. I wonder if it’s part of the “submissive Japanese wife/woman”. I’ll ask my older sister to see if she does the same thing.
(I just found where the real articles are he2)
I was thinking while reading some of the articles (it’s midnight here, so I won’t have time to read though today) that one of the problems with sex and Japanese women is that we’re taught, one way or the other, that sex is about “laying perfectly still and let the man do his things” with an occasional moan in the middle. Even when you watch Japanese pornography or even the ecchi anime, Japanese women just lay on bed. Many times, if she decides to go on top, she just moves up and down meekly or waits for the man to move his hips.
One author says that the sexual problem in Japan is all to blame on males. “It takes two to tango” and I believe that in a couple both should make an effort to improve their sexual life.
In the case of many people here, who are male foreigners married to Japanese women, I think women should make an effort to break out of that shell, but in the mean time the men whould make a huge effort to understand that shell (I know it’s hard, I’m from a Japanese family and I can barely understand half of our “cultural quirks”) to help her get rid of some of it.
azu,
you are lucky to have a considerate boyfriend! since he has stated his desire to be sure you are sexually fulfilled teach him how to do it, if he doesn’t already know. just the fact that you can communicate on this level is great. never say, “don’t worry, go ahead”, instead teach him technique and patience.
this board is very interesting to me because i have never experienced a problem of sexlessness with japanese women.
my guess, from what i’ve heard from japanese women is that many to most foreign men aren’t as considerate & sensitive(from a japanese woman’s perspective) as media presents or as they themselves would imagine – it isn’t just culture.
if you have any japanese ladyfriends that read english introduce them to the site so that we can get better insights.
thanks!!
I just dropped on this thread by chance. Scanned a few posts. Decided it was a comedy skit.Read a few more, slowly. My jaw dropped. Its for real? These guys really don’t get it?
on 14 Aug 2007 at 9:56 pm 142
Bingo!
Oh, and “Maybe just drop the word casually in conversation, perhaps when choosing peaches at the grocery store or something”
Huh? You nuts?
1) Just get a good referral to a “brazilian waxing” establishment. Pick a good “no work day”. Put 2 tylenol 3 s in the vitamins you feed her with (you do feed her vits I hope), then go down and hold her hand while she yells.
2)Make a big “thank you” dinner, but don’t do anything
3) Get on the plane to that villa you booked in Thailand. The one with a walled garden so you can walk around naked or do it on the barbecue table without being arrested, and a pool so you can f*** under water. Don’t make a big deal out of sex, just do it and do it well; 2 or 3 times a day.
Take everthing you are likely to need inlcuding 2 tubes of KY jelly for the anal, and a video camera. Shop like hell while you are there for the sexiest clothes you can find. Throw in a good bracelet for fun. Make a game of dressing, undressing. Make lots of other games. Buy a yo-yo, a hula hoop or two, Go to fun parks.
If you have kids make sure they are booked in with mother-in-law and well funded. They’ll survive without you for 2 weeks, probably. If not, you can always make some more.
Don’t drink while you are out there having fun.
Oh,, nearly forgot, you did check the monthly schedule I hope. Avoid it. Just get the dates right.
I hope I don’t offend anyone, but all this stuff about Christianity, about expecting a Japanese woman to take the initiative (they can’t, they have no idea what to do), about …. oh dear God, please help these folks!
I cannot believe Japan is becoming a Sexless society. Maybe in the confines of
marriage. I am getting ready to marry a Japanese woman who LOVES sex.
I believe the porno industry in japan aids in the distruction of the marriage.
Thus causing japan to become a sexless society. The economic “Boom” that Japan
has become is in my opinion one of the causes of the Sexless society.
Couples need to spend more time together in order to strengthen the family.
The destruction of the family causes the destruction of the country. Look at America.
I welcome comments from other “gaijin men” who are married to or are thinking of
marrying Japanese women.
After being maried for 5 years with a japanese woman i can say only one thing, They maybe cute, pretty, sexy and so on…. until they married, i don’t know what is going on and/or why it is happen but they become one of the most useless things on this planet. Take my advice fellows, NEVER marry with a japanese girl. To be bf/gf is fine until judgment day but they are going to change into an evil right after you sign marriage paper.
(dave)
how are you defining ‘useless’?
have you considered separation or divorce?
Hi to all you people out there..
I think being married to Japanese has more problems than just sex..
the whole culture difference is bigger than i thought it would have been
Things like expressing our feelings..I dont think Japanese are very good at that..though i am not saying all are like that..but back to the actual post,I do know how you all feel about sexless marriages..My wifes parents sleep in seperate beds and even though my wife doesn`t agree with them (thankfully we sleep in the same bed) she does have a submissive nature..she will just lay there and if i feel i am going to come she will say it`s ok please come..but i feel i would like like to foreplay and then have intercourse again..
and i do feel a change in sex after we got married..as of now the last time we had sex was 1 and a half months ago..that was never the case before we got married..but i love her and she loves me and we know we have different cultures and outlooks on life and we need to respect that..but that doesn`t make it easy ..anyway good luck to you all out there
as i’ve had opportunities to discuss sexlessness with men and women both japanese and foreigners alike sexlessness appears to boil down to this, sex may be viewed as a necessary activity to get men to marry. many to most japanese women do not enjoy sex as a form of orgasmic pleasure. men basically don’t know how to satisfy the women with whom they have sex. many to most men like to think they know how to sexually satisfy women, but they don’t.
if the woman actually enjoys sex from her own perspective(having orgasms) as opposed to ‘just pleasing the man’ then sexual activity will continue through married life provided that the man lightens workload and stress of home and childcare.
“Oh preeze Mr. Bob Harrisu…preeze lip…oh preeze oh preeze Mr. Bob Harrisu!”
It’s not just japanese women. I have found after being married to a japanese man for 5 years that we have “sexless” periods, they could go on for months if i didn’t make the first move.
When you’ve been married for a while, sex kind of works it’s way down the list. I still want to do it, and when i initiate, yes, then hubby is raring to go. But, i think it boils down to the fact that when you are going out on dates, you have no commitments, you’re only looking to the next date, and what else is there to do reallly? you’re still discovering each other.
After marriage there are other focuses. Buying a house, having kids, renovations etc, it all takes up time.
I also think that hubby doesn’t want to “bother me” with his needs, which i’ve told him is totally fine. I think alot of people have an image that japanese men want to do it all the time, if they can, but when you grow up, alot more things come in first place than sex. It doesn’t mean you love each other any less, and it means that anniversary sex is the best sex you’ve ever had! haha
Just kidding… i’m far from that “wife who doesn’t want to have sex” i’m the kind who’s always wants to do it, but, i respect my husband. I know he works hard and long hours, 6 days per week, and i don’t just jump his bones the minute he walks in the door.
The guys who complain about japanese women not having sex, or just laying there, or being totally useless, well helllooo?, that is their culture mate. They were brought up to please men, that’s the society they grew up in, and of course, man is #1 in the household, so she’s trying to please you, whatever you want.
But another thing is, if you don’t tell her what you want, she won’t know will she?
Do you enjoy your wife’s company, is what i would like to know? Are you only all about sex or do you actually enjoy your wife in other ways? Saying she is useless is a bit harsh. She might think the same thing of you! And in what way is she useless? I too, would like to know. I’m sure she cooks you dinner every night and makes a nice home, that is far from useless.
Just my two cents, but i wouldn’t label japanese women into a sexless box, because japanese men are like that too, but it all depends on the situation and lifestyle, and their childhoods, but i would just recommend that if you want a sex object, go to a prostitute, don’t bother marrying someone, you will never be happy.
Cheers
In the comments (I did not read them all, but most) it seems the woman is the problem in the relationship. I, as a woman, have similar problems. My last two relationships involved men who were unable to keep me happily satisfied. One was Japanese and the other American.
I cannot really define the reasons behind it though. I certainly do not lie back like a dead fish and do nothing, but more than one person has told me they thought one might have preferences the other way.
I have heard stories like mine from other women. Whether it is true or not… girls will sometimes say what other girls want to hear.
Hello, everyone. I’m new here.
I agree with azumarisan. You have to COMMUNICATE with your wife if you don’t want a divorce. How about taking her out on a romantic date? You could get her sexy lingerie. Tell her she’s sexy and excites you. Tell her you love her but you need more intimacy in your marriage. Tell her what you need. She has to know. (don’t force her, just make your point and be patient. ) Good luck everyone!
Great point, Yuri.
I was trying to figure out a remedy for the relationship with my boyfriend and found this discussion….they were very interesting.
Honestly, I was somewhat relieved becasue I was not the only one who has the intimacy problem, but at the same time, I was a little dissapointed because it dosn’t seem that there are easy solutions. But, we have to be positive!!
I am Japanese woman and my boyfriend is American, we met in the U.S. and we’ve been together more than four years. My boyfriend told me that he hasn’t been satisfied with our intimacy and he wanted to separate….there are some other reasons for the separation, but the intimacy thing is one of them…We have been discussed this issue so many times….over and over again….he wanted to have sex everyday, he wants to come back to someone who is beautiful and happy to see him…I totally understand what he says….I would like to do so, I would like to see a guy who is handsome, fit and charming…..I would like to have some intimacy with him, but unfortunately, I have to admit that my body is not ready for this every single day.
He accused me that I don’t love him as much as he loves me, but I strongly believe that this is a biological, hormonal or a cultural issue…..I love him, I care about him, but I do not need sex as much as he does….it’s sad….but it’s true. I don’t enjoy having sex with him as much as he does, but I enjoy having sex with him (if he believes it or not)……I might not like it as much as he likes, but I like it, I don’t hate it (if he believes it or not)…. I just do not need sex every single day as he needs…I am always less than him…..maybe “extremely” less than him from his point of view….
I accept what he wants, so it’s OK for me to have sex as a kind of duty as long as he can be satisfied. But he doesn’t want me to think that way…that is a great thing about him….but it makes us feel more sad…I think he understands this difference, but he seems like he doesn’t want to accept it, he doesn’t want to give it up. I don’t expect he will give up, but nothing I can do so far.
I have been tring to find where this problem comes from…I grew up in Japan, and I am sure that my parents haven’t have the intimacy for a long time..so I haven’t exposed to “Western” concept of intimacy until he made me realize there is the difference exsists and he haven’t been satisfied with it.
Maybe I should go to the counseling, but I doubt that it is going to give me a fundamental solution.
nagoyan
no, you do not need counseling, he does. it’s his job to understand you from your sexual perspective. men and women are different. you will see some aspects of this japanese/westerner sexual divide covered in the site posted in comment 192.
cut your losses before you read about his experiences with you from his perspective on this site.
there are no easy solutions. but realize that it is seldom possible, if wise to change for someone else. you are you. thankfully i’ve not had this as an issue in my life because i inform japanese women of my sexuality of 3 to 5X a week very early in the relationship, usually before our first sexual encounter.
I think mitaboy is right – cut your losses. Without knowing your age, I would add before you waste your best years of life forever. He, perhaps may just needs an attractive plastic blow up instead.
He may be handsome, fit but that alone means nothing. I think most “westerners” would like to have sex with an available charming, nice, exotic looking, feminine Japanese young women but for most that is where things end. If she is available daily that’s great for them/him. But makes no difference to the (poor at this moment) relationship outlook for you.
I guess what I am saying it is easy to use Japanese women…
I think you need to look beyond the superficial and find a person who also appreciates you and your absolutely unique and fantastic cultural emotional and value system background. I know this sounds scary but the truth is your options to find a right partner outside of Japan, e.g. in US are far more narrow that an average American girl’s. A lot of these handsome, fit would not be worth your time – they may not even notice you are different, not to mention understand or desire or appreciate the difference.
Look at their cultural background, who their family and friends are. Try not get stuck with time wasters. Hope you find your great match. White is not always best
I have been married to a lovely woman from Tokyo and we have kids. We live outside of Japan. Oh, and I am very very happy with the relationship. Love it!
kornik
I think my boyfriend is very appreciative….he appreciates my uniqueness and what I have done for him. He likes me because I am not like typical American girls. I appreciate his efforts to understand me since my English skill was not enough to express and explain my feelings well.
He is coming from Mexican family and he is educated. I can see that Mexican families are full of love all the time, they show love, affection and passion (especially this) for someone they love…if you watch Mexican dramas, it’s very obvious because the stories expand in their bedrooms..while Japanese dramas barely show their bedrooms. So I understand the difference and I accept that. That’s the greatest thing of understanding different culture and each other.
What I am trying to say here is that if we appreciate the cultural difference and each other’s uniqueness, why can’t we appreciate the differences in intimacy…..maybe it is difficult because men’s and women’s brain are just different as “mitaboy” mentioned. But I think it should be able to overcome…(I hope so).
My boyfriend told me what type of intimacy he wanted from the beginning, and I understood it. But my body doesn’t react the way we want. So I think understanding and any type of agreement do not always remedy the situation. I won’t rush to find the solution, but I am not sure he can torelate to discover the solution with me for a long time….
Nagoyan
I think the problem you are describing a lot of couples around the world would subscribe to!
In time, things around intimacy & differences in your needs will change. Men go over the hill in their twenties. Your problem may solve itself
Wish you all the best.
kornik
Thanks!!
Hi everyone, this is a great discussion, I’ve got a lot out of it so far. I’d like to extend a warm welcome to the Japanese women who recently started commenting here, it’s very useful (and interesting) to hear your opinions.
Regarding the issue of libido, we all want the perfect relationship, which includes a partner with the same sex drive that we have. But nothing in life is perfect and compromise must be a part of any relationship. If your body will not cooperate with your desires, no amount of wishing is going to change that, and I think your partner has no choice but to accept it. Sex is a physical activity, and everyone has their limitations.
The solution which seems fairly obvious to me is masturbation. But a lot of western guys have resistance to this. Some kinds of Christianity still teach that masturbation is wrong. Some guys think that only penetrating a woman makes you a man, so masturbation makes you less of a man. Some guys even consider it a homosexual act.
Sex with your lover will always be better. But it’s not fair to ask for more than they can give. I think it’s wonderful that Nagoyan has tried to accommodate her BF, she has shown him that she cares about him and I think he has a lot to be happy about.
Many men here have talked about their wives being extremely passive in bed. I have experienced this and wondered about it. I think that to some Japanese (and perhaps many), sex is not viewed as a mutual, reciprocal act. It is viewed as something a man does to a woman, for his pleasure, at her expense. Have a look at post 142, by borninloxley. “You really are the lord and master”. “Dont give her the option, tell her what to do sexually”. I assume the writer is not Japanese, but I think he has expressed views held by many Japanese people, both men and women. They believe that the pleasure of a woman is not something that a real man would concern himself with, because women experience the most pleasure from giving it to a man. What motivation would a woman have to actively try to please a man like that? He’s going to do whatever he wants anyway, so why not just save your energy and let him get on with it?
I think many Japanese women have the expectation that when it comes to sex, they are going to be treated like an inanimate object, and so they act like one. And they have the expectation that their lover is not going to be too concerned about their pleasure, so they don’t expect to enjoy sex very much, and are not very interested in it.
Some guys have said here that getting them to respond is just a matter of giving them enough orgasms. I used to think this too, but what it fails to take into account is that when people have strongly or deeply held beliefs, they tend to only be aware of things that fit in with those beliefs, and ignore everything contradictory. So the fact that a woman is experiencing good sex does not necessarily mean she is going to expect to have good sex in the future. If she really believes that sex is boring, she is going to see the good times as a momentary aberration that will soon pass.
So I think that a frank discussion about expectations is necessary to reach some sort of accommodation. I don’t think it is a matter of forcing western values on a foreign culture, because until 40 or 50 years ago these ideas were unheard of in the West, and they caught on anyway. I think the same thing is happening in Japan and will continue to happen.
james
agreed on all points. you mentioned ‘many japanese women’ some might be tempted to lean toward ‘most’.
though this discussion doesn’t reflect my experience, letting the japanese woman in one’s life know that the feeling of sexual pleasure shouldn’t be an aberration to their held values on sex is key. with this expectation she will give you subtle cues when she’s ready and be more open to your desires.
being open is key. however, it is incumbent upon the man to begin the dialogue in a non-threatening manner.
I am the boyfriend of Nagoyan and I would like all of you to here my side of the story and hopefully give a better understanding of the situation. First and foremost I would like to point out that we did indeed ended our relationship after more than four years. However, I do feel that both of us thought that the break up was eventually going to happen.
Being with someone is not about acceptance. Its about love, love is the easiest thing in the world and if it becomes difficult then you are not in love and it is a mere act of tolerance. Nagoyan messages made me sound like one track type of guy, but nothing could be further from the truth.
After the third month of our relationship everything began to decline rapidly. Our intimacy and enjoyment began to take a back seat to out academic lives. Although I always percieved that a relationship would be a stress release from the daily grind of being a student, Nagoyan thought that being in a relationship was just another task that had to be completed. I feel in this case I recieved someone with an excess of emotional baggage. That baggage was passed on to me.
I always wanted to be the perfect guy, I wanted to be intelligent, fit and be the best guy I could be for her. However I never got that from her. I remember that I wanted her to dress better and become happier, to have her live up to her potential and for awhile she was. All the money I made went to her in improving her appearance. We dined at the some of the most expensive restaurants in the state and the ice she recieved was second to none.
I began to think that she was having confidence in herself and that this could be the one for me, however when she returned back from a trip to japan. Her mother destroyed her confidence along with her self-esteem. Everything went downhill from there. I tried to discuss it but she would agree to chance but it was nothing but lip service. She always said she would, but she never did. I tried to take her shopping again but the clothes she chose were extremely masculine.
To top it off, she ended up kicking me out of her apartment when she decided to take her roommates side who she had known for less than month, and she was my girlfriend for more than three years. I think that incident was really the beginning of the end. I knew that you cannot make people change and it was my fault for wanting to realize her potential.
The rest will be continued in the next message:
to james
and the administrator
would like to email james directly if he’s interested
Eliottsan
[I remember that I wanted her to dress better and become happier, to have her live up to her potential and for awhile she was. All the money I made went to her in improving her appearance.]
having modeled and been in retail sales, i’ve discovered that women don’t generally change their fashion sense for the men in their lives. it’s developed in their teens and perhaps early twenties. the styles they she may have chosen while you were with her weren’t in her reality of self esteem.
look for the woman that already has the fashion sense you desire.
[I knew that you cannot make people change and it was my fault for wanting to realize her potential.]
great observation! you can only coach those that want to be.
*it’s ‘interesting’ how these two discovered the same site. simply good fortune?
To Mitaboy and the administrator, please give Mitaboy my email.
To Eliottsan, thank you for sharing your story,I think there are lessons there for all of us, and I’m glad we are hearing both sides of it. I am sad for you and Naogyasan because breaking up is hard. But sometimes it is the right thing to do. I was surprised to learn it had happened, because it seems that the two of you care about each other and have good communication.
I can relate to your story because I have had big problems with my girlfriend. We have worked through them so far. You mentioned Nagoyan’s mother, it’s somewhat shocking to me how brutal Japanese family life can be. I think that as their partners it’s important for us to understand the many pressures that the Japanese live with, and provide support where we can.
The insecurity about appearances is another factor that we need to be aware of. I once saw a girl refuse to stand in front of a mirror because she didn’t want to look at herself. I have no photos of my girlfriend because she won’t let me take them. While it’s good to compliment them on their appearance, I think that if you want to help them feel confident, in the long term it’s best to de-emphasise the importance of looks. Their fear comes from an intuition that their lives are governed by something over which they have little control. So I try to pay more attention to what girls do than what they look like. As Aristotle wrote, “courage [and confidence] is an awareness of your own power”.
original post from james
[The solution which seems fairly obvious to me is masturbation. But a lot of western guys have resistance to this. Some kinds of Christianity still teach that masturbation is wrong. Some guys think that only penetrating a woman makes you a man, so masturbation makes you less of a man.]
in fact for many men they are just masturbating anyway when they have sex with a woman, just pleasuring themselves – no different than masturbation.
this fact hit home when my girlfriend asked me if i could have sex with a 75 year old woman. let me say that my girlfriend has a great sense of humor and we talk about everything, she usually uses stories.
anyway i said depends on the woman’s fashion sense, how in shape she was and intelligence, i exercise, am fashion conscious, and like to talk after sex. i then asked her if she could have sex with a potbellied man of 75. she said yes, because she could just lay there. basically sex would just to be a task to be fulfilled as part of a relationship. this is what japanese women are used to. they aren’t used to a man caring about their sexual satisfaction.
perhaps it should be said that my girlfriend is a different from other japanese women in that she’s a business owner. she has told me several times that sex helps to reduce stress from her business day.
this is the woman that i’ll probably marry.
a very important aspect of our relationship is that we talked about sex before we had sex. i was honest and direct about my expectations 3 – 5 times a week and that her pleasure was before mine, there were no surprises.
many men will roll their eyes at this, but, learning to give a good massage(20 minutes minimum) helps prepare women for sex. you’ll never been turned down from a massage, or the sex after.
Story continued:
So as time went on she began to dress even more masculine. When I had to attend donner parties I practically had to force her to wear something that looked like it had some sort of femininity. I was looking for the housewife type of woman. One who would be devoted to her family and her husband.
While she said she was that type of woman I never saw the action. Intimacy always felt like it was forced so it was such a turn off there were many nights we ended up doing nothing because I dont believe in forcing anyone to do something they dont want to do and guys that do that are just pathetic!!!!
The passion and love I felt for her was never returned. I felt like if I got kidnapped she would do nothing to find me. I think for her she thought that I was going to accept her the way she was because we had been together for so long. But I warned her that I was not going to. She did not want a japanese relationship, but she was acting like we were in a japanese relationship, (the shut up and take it sort of way!). I adore japanese women, but I will never be a japanese man. Nagoyan was the type of girl that if everything was fine on her end then automatically everything must be fine on my end, but again nothing could be further from the truth.
So the best thing to do was to cut both of our losses and end it….
To Eliottsan
Sorry to hear the relationship is over.
You can’t change a person. If you knew that before… what you were doing might had been, in a way, unfair to her. Perhaps, try to chose a person you do not have to change next time. Other that, I am sure you and she gave the best efforts but they would seem unfortunately not aligned.
“I adore japanese women”
Well, perhaps you should re-examine that.
(1) My Japanese female friends explained to me some differences between generations of Japanese women. If you believe that, it may be the case that the really feminine ones are now in their late forties and fifties – these are the very traditional women who would own and wear a dozen or more of kimonos, know the culture and language very well. Somewhat opposite is the generation now in their twenties – these young women have been very influenced by the commercialized reality, may know little of the tradition and often may have difficulties in handling the subtleties of their own language. “I was looking for the housewife type” – well your future choices may be limited.
(2) In Japanese tradition there is something you may not like as a westerner. It is a virtue to be able to live with difficulties sometimes big ones, maybe even accept them, but still remain happy and very sane. (A traditional) Japanese is much better emotionally equipped to survive hardship because they expect hardship. A Japanese woman may accept a problem as a challenge and live with it. You may need something closer to perfection.
Mita-boy,
I can’t believe that you are considering marriage! That’s great. Although the cynic in me does want you to come back to this forum a few years after you’ve tied the knot to see if things remain the same…
Many people seem to enter into relationships hoping to “change” their partner in some way. It’s never this easy because although people naturally change and grow on their own, it’s difficult and often resisted if *you’re* the one trying to do the changing.
I have a relative lack of experience in relationships, so although I *definitely* know what kinds of women I find attractive, as far as personality and behavior goes I’m very open. In spite of love for her family and cooking, my girlfriend is pretty unconventional – instead of slaving away at college for four years before becoming and office lady and eventually getting married, she’s in music school and wants to become a pro musician. Heck, she already sings and plays live with her band regularly. Now most guys wanting a Japanese girlfriend might give her a try, but end up breaking up and discouraged when they find out she’s not going to be the quiet, dainty, obedient housewife they lust for. But I’m determined to love my girlfriend for who she is, and I’m quite ready to follow her and her ambitions for her life, regardless of how they turn out, because I know she’s a very special person and worth the risk. If I tried to “change” her aspirations, or her sense of fashion, or whatever else, then the relationship would be doomed because she is not a weak, submissive stereotype girl. So I think the lesson is to avoid entering in a relationship with someone if you can’t love her for who she already is.
Another part of it is that while you can’t change the other person in most cases, you can change yourself, and if you perceive a girl as worth the effort, than you can alter your own lifestyle for her sake. But if doing so will only make you miserable, it’s probably better to avoid it. For a sufficiently impressive girl, I would try to be flexible in this area, but careful – you don’t want her to think you’re some sort of easily-manipulated girly man.
i found this site because I live in a sexless marriage with my japanese wife. not to brag, but to prove a point, i have been considered extremely attractive all my life. I have literally had my choice of women, and I chose this japanese girl because she was very nice (not really overly attracted to asians). Well, here I am. Top of the class. bringing in 7 figures. handsome. yet i am in a completely sexless marriage. My wife was taught that sex was bad…so this article seems to be misleading in the beginning. Perhaps the new generation of japanese are more libereral in their sexual openness, but my wife was taught never to have sex. so much so that she doesn’t have sex even in a marriage. I’m really quite sick of it to be honsest. In fact, I may be done with it. Next wife (if any) definately not japanese. or asian for that matter. a nice blonde please.
Getting involved with a non-Japanese woman is no guarantee of a happy relationship. Least of all a blonde, blondes are trouble
I presume you expressed your view that sex is fun, and that many people enjoy it. What did she say to that? I also presume that you made some attempt to satisfy her sexual needs, how did she respond to that
i am a canadian and i have a japanese boyfriend who doesnt seem to be interested in sex. he starts then stops. i tried to talk to him but hes dismissive.
The way I see “sex” as Japanese, many Japanese people might not see “sex” as something to enjoy, feel pleasure or a sort of entertainment between people who love each other. Some of them might even think “sex” should not be something to enjoy. Personally, I think sexual intercourse is not the altimate goal of cultivating “Love” between them. Instead, it should be one of the ways of creating love, “Make Love.”
I am trying to think of how my notion of “sex” was created, and I think one of the reasons might be the influence of Japanese adult videos or Japanese sexual industry. As you know, Japanese adult videos are projecting very negative image of sex; assault, perverted, no emotion of love, passiveness for women, pleasure only for men, etc…they do not show the real “give and take” and “communication” at all. When I watched those videos first time, I was really shocked. “That’s crazy, that’s ridiculous!!” At that time, I am sure I was still virgin. Imagine, how powerful that experience was and how it could effect on my notion of sex? I believed that they were not projecting the way it should be, but then, how and what the way should be? How should I express my emotion during making love? Then I got confused, “Are they the real ways that usually people are supposed to do?”
I tried to look for the good examples of “making love,” but nobody (no Japanese) showed me the good examples. My parents? No way!! I am sure that they love each other, but I’ve never seen their physical contacts (hugs and kisses) in my life. (This might be the reason that I believe “Love” can exist without sexual contacts between married couples.) Also, I was even taught that any types of physical contact with family members would be considered as inappropriate behaviors when children reached a certain age, around 11 or 12. In other words, how can I express my feelings and emotions of love if I’ve never seen those behaviors around me? if it was not allowed to show those type of emotions?
Maybe Hollywood movies, which you can watch in Japan, can be a little good examples. I remembed that I had longed for the relationship like Hollywood “love commedy” movies, whcih are restricted to show sexual actions but showed romance that Japanese usually don’t have, when I was a teenager. Fortunately, I think that the exposure to Hollywood movies made me believe that Japanese adult videos were crazy and I still want to have relationship with foreigners. But the reality was that, my partner told me “boring” or “I don’t feel anything,” and I realized that I wanted to have the intimacy with foreigners like movies, but I didn’t have any skills to show my emotions in bed. I have never expressed my emotions like people in the movies. I had a lot of hesitation and felt embarrassment expressing myself in bed at the beginning, but after a lot of practices with my partner’s (Eliottsan) support, I got used to it.
Back to the notion of sex, my notion that I used to have in deep inside was that pursuing “pleasure” equals doing like Japanese adult videos. Japanese adult videos are ridiculous; therefore, pursuing “pleasure” is a kind of ridiculous. Fortunately, I don’t feel that way anymore, but I believe that lack of exposure to a sound sexual behavior can really impact on creating the notion of sex. Understanding and behaving are two different things. I understood that expressing “love” for someone is not a bad thing; but when it comes to behave it, I was anxious about doing something forbidden. Besides, Japanese people are usually not good at expressing themselves, that is why Japanese young figure skaters, pianists and athletes are willing to go to other Western countries to learn how to express themselves.
I think that some Japanese people might need to feel secure in order to discard their negative notion of sex and to practice to express their emotions physically.
hills-zoku
thanks! not married yet, but being discussed. have been married before, thankfully sex wasn’t an issue. the day i made up my mind to go ahead with the divorce she asked if we could still have sex. i said, “no’ of course. we are still friend’s.
to the post of 224
“jap” is offensive.
if you don’t have children get a divorce. if you have children take them with you out of the country. guard them carefully because once with the mother you may never see them again, but that is another topic
Nagoyan
“wanted to have the intimacy with foreigners like movies, but I didn’t have any skills to show my emotions in bed” – both Japanese and Hollywood movies are fairytales for adults. Fantasy for masses wanting to feel good voting with their wallets. Really bad choice to try to model yourself unless you want to badly screw your mind.
“I believe “Love” can exist without sexual contacts between married couples” – of course it can but:
– in love or not in love. So it gets to our choices what we do. Choice one would hope is influenced by our “love”.
1 for man sex is everywhere
2 suggest always try to find a boyfriend with an emotional IQ same or higher than you.
3 more likely in the 2nd phase of love… after the infatuation, after brain’s hormonal imbalance goes away. Some say this takes 9 months.
Perhaps read something meaningful about perceptions of love … one I would highly recommend is “The road less traveled” M Scott Peck.
Nagoyan, I have been reading your posts with great interest, and appreciate very much that you share your thoughts here. For some of the guys on this page (yes, including me) this is a really serious issue, one which many can’t seem to fathom or overcome even after a long time trying. What you said about the Japanese pornography industry is true, and when Japanese girls get their first (twisted) taste of the “role” which they are meant to play in sex, I can easily see how it would put them off engaging in it.
I mean, let’s face it, (and even Mitaboy has to agree with me here) Japanese girls get objectified more than any other race in the world. Subjectively (correct me if I’m wrong, with your reasons!), on the outside, they are the most beautiful women in the world. The dark shiny hair, the slightly tan skin, the sleek and slender bodies, the knowledge and means to keep themselves looking and smelling good, and those mysterious eyes! What man could resist? I know I couldn’t. And it wasn’t because I fell in love with these girls I was meeting, it was just because I wanted to have sex with them for these superficial – but extremely seductive – qualities which they possessed. That whether I like it or not, is objectification – the portrayal of girls as mere instruments of sex. Japanese guys and foreigners do it alike, albeit for different reasons. Japanese men do it by their nature (too much weird j-porn in their malleable chugaku years), and Western men do it to fulfill their oriental-submissive-Japanese-maid-anime-otaku fetishes and fantasies.
How to get from that stage of objectification to a loving relationship with reasonably sustainable sex is a HUGE hurdle, which is more than often grossly underestimated. For me, it was a big step, and I still am struggling to get through my sexless periods one at a time (I am not completely sexless yet, but if my wife had her way, we likely would be!).
So, Nagoyan, I would like to ask you (or any other Yamato-nadeshikos out there) a question:
Now that you know that many (all?) men initially look at Japanese girls purely as objects of sexual gratification, or a means to fulfill their “anime fetish” (don’t take that the wrong way – it is only in the first stages until we actually care for the person who lives inside the sexy body), what do you think has to happen for the average Japanese girl to become a fox in bed, and more importantly enjoy it, and stay that way after marriage? Do you think there is any hope at all? I ask this knowing how it must sound, and that it may even come as a shock to you, but all the same, it is very real and certainly an honest and sincere question.
Dear Admins, could you remove or edit the word “Jap” in posts above? It is definitely not appropriate, and could trim someone’s notion to comment here, and we would all miss out then.
Removed the offensive words in posts above. No place for it here. Great discussion happening, let’s not destroy it.
Get the torches out…
Japanese women do get objectified, agreed. Perhaps more than most women.
Let me paint a target on myself because I’m guilty of the same. Though I don’t think the criteria for selecting women in Japan has changed much from my process in Southern California. I’ve always chosen women based on their sense of fashion and whether or not they took care of their hands and feet. Looks, as defined by facial structure, hairstyle, and weight factored in to lesser degree. The reason that they factored in to a lesser degree is that we all look ugly when we get older.
What wins me over with a woman is her intelligence and sense of humor. Elements such as fashion sense and how a woman cares for her body gives me an indication of what she thinks of herself. But her ability to discuss issues and topics below the surface is what locks me in. Attractive women in Japan are a dime a dozen, intelligent women aren’t. The women in my life have all known that I can date an attractive woman easily, not a big deal for me. They know that they are chosen. I’m not an easy lay. I once stopped dating a woman because she read a newspaper article, said it was interesting, I asked her to explain to me why she thought it was interesting, she couldn’t answer even in Japanese, we stopped dating. My tolerance for the inability to express oneself is extremely low.
From a sexual perspective and I think this is where many men err is that they may(I don’t know this to be true) have too much of a pornographic image of sex while engaged in the act. I monitor several website that deal with sexual issues with Japanese women and it’s incredible to realize just how ignorant so many men are. Hint: generally speaking, removing your penis and falling asleep within seconds of having an orgasm or trying to ejaculate all over a woman’s face isn’t her idea of making love.
The reason that I haven’t suffered the issues that are posted on this site is that I genuinely care whether or not the woman that I am in bed with is really sexually pleased. This is not a question in my mind but should be a question in most men’s minds. As I think I’ve stated somewhere on this site I was married before, now divorced, sex wasn’t an issue. My ex-wife asked me whether or not we could still have sex even though we were going to be divorced. Answer, “No!”
Pleasing a woman means from her perspective first, before my own, all the time. For me her pleasure is my pleasure. I make this known all the time. And it seems to shock women all the time that I care. Sex, 3 to 5 times a week is no problem, because she knows she is in for a pleasurable time. Is it just a question of technique, “No!” though that plays a large part of it, and I’d say well over 70 to 80% for most men. The other aspect is showing that you genuinely care about your woman verbally and physically.
I’ve taken the time to study how to sexually please women. I studied it, most men haven’t studied. Many men think by virtue of the fact that they have a penis, watched some pornographic movies, they can please a woman, far be that from the truth. I’ve been stunned by the words women have used to describe how i make them feel, but I’m not surprised by their thoughts because I studied. Surely some men are thinking, “Who the hell does he think he is to say what he’s saying?”
Let me put it in a different perspective. In your profession, you know your level of competence by the preparation you’ve made to be successful. Having a great sex life is no different. Most men aren’t prepared and in many cases don’t deserve the sex that the woman is “giving” them, just because many Japanese women believe that sex is a “duty” in a relationship. Many American women will leave men if the sexual performance is sub par, Japanese women generally don’t.
It also seems a little bit too easy for many foreign men to allow Japanese women to fall into the subservient role of cooking, cleaning and generally becoming a servant. I cover these issues to some degree on my 1001kisses site. None of the Japanese women in my life have ever been asked to cook or clean for me. They’ve sometimes cooked for me on their own volition but it has never been required. They know that with me that we are equals. I often remind them that I’m NOT a Japanese man and I don’t need a maid, mother, or prostitute to perform pornographic movie urges. I actually can and cook clean better than the average woman. I’m interested in a companion.
Light the torch ha hah ha
f_gaijin,
I don’t think Japanese girls get objectified more that any other race. I think Western girls experience exactly the same thing, and in some ways things are worse over here because our mass media is saturated with sexual imagery. Japanese media is quite tame in comparison, and they pretty much never show scantily clad women on TV, let alone actual nudity. Western girls don’t get fetishised and treated like an exotic commodity (at least, not by Western men), but they definitely get treated as providers of sexual services above all else.
You made some unfortunate choices of words. You wrote “the person who lives inside the sexy body”, as if the body and the person can be separated. This is objectification, and I am sure you want to eliminate such processes from your thinking. Language determines thought, if you don’t want to think this way, don’t write this way.
It also might be a good idea to think carefully about what you actually want. What does it mean to become “a fox in bed”. You listed it as a separate outcome from “enjoying it”, so it sounds like you are talking about getting your own needs satisfied. Which would make the question “how can I get a girl to enjoy satisfying my needs”, which leaves out her needs entirely, and that’s clearly the wrong attitude.
In my opinion there are only two important questions.
1. What can I do to give my woman sexual satisfaction?
2. How can I introduce the idea of mutual and reciprocal pleasure to someone who has never experienced it?
There are dozens of websites devoted to the first question. The second is what we have been discussing here, and I think the length of the discussion attests to the difficulty in answering it. It all comes down to communication, and I think patience and persistence is vital. Also listening to and learning from your partner, respecting their views and taking them seriously.
Dear Nagoyan,
Your post was thoughtful, very insightful, and quite touching. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It was quite illuminating for me to read about the influences your parents had on you, because I would think that their views are quite common across Japan. Also your exposure to pornography (and your reaction to it) is probably quite a common experience for both Japanese and Western girls.
I wonder what kind of security is needed for Japanese people to feel comfortable expressing their emotions physically. I guess they would need to feel free to try doing new things without being judged or compared unfavorably with other people? That they would not lose their partner\’s respect, that their partner will not be critical of their efforts. Maybe it comes down to simply feeling that they know how their partner is going to react to what they do.
I was surprised and a little bit overwhelmed by many responses to my post…but, I can definitely say that I enjoy writing on this site because the discussions really make me think so many things, and I am glad that people respect my thoughts.
To f_gaijin,
I have never married, and because of the intimacy issue, I had to break up with Eliottsan (above). So, I cannot give you any advices, but I hope that we could share some helpful views to understand the intimacy issue between Japanese people and foreigners.
mitaboy said very interesting things about Japanese girls in 232;
“…her ability to discuss issues and topics below the surface is what locks me in….I once stopped dating a woman because she read a newspaper article, said it was interesting, I asked her to explain to me why she thought it was interesting, she couldn’t answer even in Japanese,…”
I am not a linguist, but I think this problem comes from the way of thinking process that Japanese people have. I used to have this type of problem when I started going to English conversation schools (Eikaiwa) in Japan (I think I still have it). I noticed that English teachers always asked students “how do you feel?” and “why do you think so?,” because they wanted us to practice to use adjectives, but I had to say “I don’t know” or to keep twisting my neck because I have never thought of “why I think this way.” Those types of question made me annoyed, but I am sure that English teachers were also annoyed since Japanese students even cannot explain their own thoughts and feelings. So I understand why mitaboy’s ex-girlfriend said so and why mitaboy thought that way.
When I took English writing courses in American university, professors always put red marks on my papers, “explain more.” English is a type of language that we have to assume that we don’t know who is going to read your paper, so you have to explain details in order for everybody to understand, and in order to support what you are trying to say. (It is only one of the characteristics of language, but when we learn the different language, we learn more than language. I learned how to express and face myself by learning English.)
On the other hand, Japanese language is very ambiguous. We (among Japanese people) often encounter the situations that we don’t have to describe things, including thoughts, feelings and emotions, precisely to communicate and understand each other (i-shin-den-shin). Also, Japan is (almost) a mono-cultural (ethnic) country and everybody receives the same education and grows up with the (almost) same cultural values. So, people assume that everybody thinks the same way in many situations.
Since it is not necessary to share how we feel about things, I think we even start ignoring own feelings. We might feel something deep inside, but we rarely describe our feelings verbally unless you have a very close friend whom you can share everything about yourself; therefore, we even become unable to explain own feelings. In other words, we might lack of experiences to crystallize our thoughts and might not know ourselves very well compared to foreigners.
In addition, it is considered that it is necessary for us (Japanese) to have the ability to read between lines, which are un-described thoughts, feelings and emotions, and the attempts to read those lines (minds) in order to get along with people. (Whether we actually communicate and understand each other well or not is other story, especially among couples.)
One more thing in terms of Japanese people’s ability to discuss issues;
I think that Japanese people do not have enough experience to create real discussions. If you watched a live broadcast from the Diet (Kokkai Chukei) on TV, which is the meeting of Japanese politics, you will see how woeful Japanese people’s discussions are (basically, it seems that they are just accusing or fighting each other and not productive at all). So I think we do not have enough ability to discuss, which is that foreigners can be satisfied.
Also, it might be the issue of expressing ourselves. When I am in Japan, I always care about what other people might think about me. How they think about my appearance, how they think of my opinion, how they think of my attitude, etc…therefore, it is very difficult for some people to show their opinions because they don’t want to be judged, but I think usually people get used to it as they get older.
Furthermore, my self-esteem has been determined by other people’s judgement (including my parents) for a long time. I noticed this fact two or three years after I moved to the United States. I feel more “free” now, but I cannot discard the value of emphasizing “harmony” completely, which indicates that I care how other people think of me as Japanese.
I haven’t discussed the intimacy issue directly; however, I believe that if you couldn’t express or discuss basic emotions, thoughts and feelings, it is more difficult for some Japanese women to express sexual things. I discussed my personal perspective here; however, everybody is different. I believe that we can overcome the issue of expressing ourselves by practicing. I hope that other Japanese women would support me or bring different perspectives here, but does the fact that there are a few Japanese women drop opinions on this site mean anything??
“gaijin” is just as much an insult as “jap” is but i don’t see the moderator editing it out for us.
I don’t agree with what Nagoyan says about Japanese people having trouble expressing themselves. I know many many Japanese including my husband, male and female, and they all can express themselves even they’ve never been to school outside of Japan. I don’t think they “grow up with the same cultural values”. Everyone has different ideas about what culture actually is, and the fact that you say that you can’t express yourself, is a cop-out, blame it on your country or the society you were born into, but please don’t blame it on yourself, it would be too hard!
Japanese women going out with foreign men is not unique, every second guy i see these days is with an asian girl. They want something different, exotic and unknown but come to this forum with their tails between their legs because it didn’t work out. Gosh. Sorry you expected some kind of inhuman sex-robot…
I also think the basis for your accusations is pretty flimsy. You’re calling Nagoyan a liar because you’ve met “many many Japanese people” who don’t fit in with what she wrote. Well, I think she’s met more Japanese people than you, being born in the country and all. I think you’re jumping to conclusions that aren’t really warranted. If she started lecturing you about Australia, it would seem a little arrogant, wouldn’t it?
As for men wanting sex robots, this seems pretty far from the sentiments that have been expressed here. If you’ve got a point to make then make it. Calling people names does not achieve anything.
James, i said “i disagree” because it is a DISCUSSION. I was expressing my point of view. I did not even say liar in my post once. I was not calling Nagoyan a liar just expressing my view from a stand point. Is that ok or do i have to ask permission?
I didn’t know only white men and Japanese girls could post here.
Oh yes, and you say Nagoyan has met more Japanese than me? If you say so. Cause you’d know wouldn’t you.
I’ve lived in Japan, my family is Japanese and i’ve a pretty good idea what it’s like in Japanese society. Yes it can be pretty excuciating but again it depends on the type of family you’re from. My Japanese family are not that traditional and everyone expresses their opinions pretty freely, both male and female.
My opinion is just as valid as yours, James, so don’t go getting your knickers in a knot.
Sex-robot was in reference to the whole Anime-jap-girl objectification, if someone is going to salivate over jap girls well it’s pretty much a given they are not going to get into the actual person they just want a sex robot to fulfill their fantasies.
Whether Japanese women get objectified or not;
I feel that American women (sorry, I don’t know how’s it like in other countries) get objectified more than Japanese women. Also, it seems that American women sell themselves as sex objects more than Japanese women. This morning, I went to a book store and looked at female fashion magazine section in California. The cover of those magazines lead “Let’s talk about sex…(Vogue)” “The sexiest, prettiest, most flattering looks (Lucky).” We also see other health magazines cover “how to get sexy body” type of things with pictures of bikini women all the time.
On the other hand, if you look Japanese female fashion magazines, they are focusing on more trends, such as the newest handbags of COACH, PRADA, GUCCI, instead of attracting men. I think this fact already shows that “sex” is not important for Japanese female and brand name stuff make many Japanese women happier and those are better than “sex.” I remember that I brought a Japanese female fashion magazine to an English class in American university. The professor showed the class inside of the magazine and asked “what do you think?.” Then, one of the American girls said, “I think they (Japanese women) are covering them up too much.” Her opinion made me laugh and I thought that she got the point.
In this semester, we discussed “sport and the violation of gender” in class, and the professor brought up the issue that (American) women are sexualized in sport. Even in sports magazines, athletes pose sexy look. The bottom line was, “They think that if they can package women athletes in ways that familiar, as sex objects, that they will entertain and sell.” (Michael Messner of the University of Southern California).
I am not quite sure how much American media really project women’s inner thoughts and American women are manipulated by media; however, if American female magazines can be sold more with “sex,” doesn’t it mean that American female have to sell themselves in order to attract men and “sex” is one of the sales points?
For some Japanese women, being “sexy” might mean being like a prostitute or a “mama (hostess)” at snack bar (not a food) in Japan. They wear sexy clothes to attract male customers. Many Japanese people don’t get used to see sexy clothes and accentuated body lines or showing skin, so they over react to it. Sometimes, just wearing skirts get attention from co-workers, especially in country side of Japan, and you have to tolerate middle aged women’s noses; “Why are you wearing skirt today? Are you going to date tonight?”
I think that wearing sexy clothes is ok in appropriate occasions in Japan. But it seems that you have to have confidence because you might have to tolerate other people’s reactions. So go ahead, if you have confidence. (But, sometimes, I feel, I wish I could wear that…very deep inside…because I am a girl.)
I used to feel that the word of “sexy” brought me the impression of being “cheap.” So, when somebody told me “you look attractive,” I felt better than “you look sexy.” Again, maybe it depends on the situations, though.
Yes, when i was in Japan, and it was Summer, i wore singlets and let my lacy bra straps show, which means nothing in a western country, but every Japanese gawked at me and kept staring so i know what you mean about them reacting to it. However, i think if you don’t care about other people’s reactions you can wear what you want, it’s all about feeling happy with yourself.
Western women want to feel sexy and attractive and most of the time it has nothing to do with attracting me, it’s all about the way we feel as women. We are confident in our bodies and we want to feel good about ourselves.
I think the biggest objectifier of women are the women themselves, it is they who buy those magazines with women in sexy poses, if we didn’t think it looked good we would vote with our purses and not buy into it. As women we enjoy seeing other women’s bodies, maybe to compare, or just see beauty in itself. It’s not all about bringing a woman down, the women’s magazines are raising women up, giving them confidence and saying “you too can do this”, giving us confidence in our every day lives.
Sorry that should be *attracting men*
To james,
I think you brought a good point in 233;
“It all comes down to communication, and I think patience and persistence is vital. Also listening to and learning from your partner, respecting their views and taking them seriously.”
I agree. But, it might take extremely long time to get the outcome of your effort. I always feel that even if I took time for explaining myself, foreigners can never understand me completely. Japanese women would compromise easily at this point. So, honestly, I don’t expect men (whether foreign or Japanese) to understand 100 %, but I hope that they would try to understand their partners as much as they can if they love Japanese women. Also, Japanese women have to do the same way. That is mutual. The attitude that they try to understand partners make me “turn-on.” But if you feel it is a waste of your time, you have to leave, because we do not know when you can see what you expect. It might take more than ten years….This can apply to not only inter-racial couples, but also the relationships within the same ethnicity. It might be a good test question.
“I wonder what kind of security is needed for Japanese people to feel comfortable expressing their emotions physically.”
I think your guesses are on the right track, but I cannot say “yes” completely because my partner could not be satisfied….
To azumarisan,
Thank you for your comment. I think your experience in Japan can help to illustrate how Western women and Japanese women react differently very well. I think that it was lucky for you that you did not have any particular feelings to what every Japanese gawked and kept staring at you. If I was in your situation, I would feel that I am doing something wrong. I always try to avoid making that kind of situations by covering up myself, because if I was in a crowded train and a perverted man was getting close to me, I cannot escape. I don’t want to stimulate perverted men.
I have an experience that a perverted man pushed his horny penis onto my butt and started panting beside my ear in a packed subway. I was standing and I thought that other people might have noticed what he was doing, but nobody helped me because they actually couldn’t see what he was doing. I should have shouted but I couldn’t do it because I was scared and confused. I didn’t wear sexy or exposed clothes, but it happened. Since then, I have had to be careful about what I wear. I have to protect myself. Many Japanese women have similar experiences and that is why they made “female exclusive cars” in subway and trains.
I feel that “I don’t care what other people react” in the U.S., but in Japan, sometimes it is difficult.
Thank you for letting me know your view of women’s magazines. You are right that magazines avail to raise women’s confidence. Recently Japanese female magazines use models who won a prize in miss universe or successful women and they are trying to boost Japanese women’s self-esteem. We discussed in a class, why many (American) women want to perform cosmetic surgeries, such as breast augmentation, lipo suction and botox or doing exercise. And we concluded, “women want to look good in naked.” So when do you be necked? The answer is “sex.” That is Western perspective I think. If you asked the same question to Japanese women, they would say that it is because they want to be look good, but they wouldn’t say it is because they want to look good in NAKED.
” I didn’t wear sexy or exposed clothes, but it happened. Since then, I have had to be careful about what I wear. ”
I find this sentence difficult to comprehend. I don’t know why you think you were in the wrong for what you wore, because it is the man on the train who had a problem, not you. It is his fault, not yours. I could never understand your feeling because as a woman i assert myself, and i stand up for myself, and i think i have every right to do the things i want to do in my life, that’s why i am here, so if that man has a problem and did that on the train, even if no-one around you noticed, you did, and why didn’t you shout “hentai!” or “chikan” or something? I’m just wondering is all, because he was in the wrong, and i would have no hesitation in doing that.
We as woman are not lower than men. I think Japanese women have trouble with that idea, but we are not, so if we wear clothes that are sexy and make ourselves feel good, if someone else, a man for instance, had a problem, it is his problem, not ours. If he acts on his attraction it will be his fault for the consequences.
I don’t know about your last sentence, women wanted to look good naked. Maybe they did, but it’s not about being naked. It’s about being comfortable in our own skin, we can wear that bikini and feel good, or the mini skirt. I wear what i like, and i don’t care if my husband likes it or not, if i feel good, that’s the main thing. Of course, i’m going to be sensitive to my husbands feelings and i wouldn’t go wearing something inappropriate like lingerie in the street, but if i feel good about myself, i think people can see that, and they respect you all the more for it.
It’s really hard for me as a woman to accept the way you think, basically because we are taught to stand up for ourselves and take no crap, but you on the other hand feel you have to conform to dressing a certain way so that you don’t excite a man on the train or something, and it’s like, well it feels like you have no rights, and you think you have no rights to dress the way you want to. And it sounds like you think that it is your fault if men are screwed up and look at you in a sexual way.
I think it’s interesting to see what you have to say though and don’t take my comments the wrong way, i’m enjoying having this discussion with you.
To azumarisan,
Thank you for your comment. It was very interesting and funny because I could totally understand your perspective, such that you stand up for yourself, but you don’t understand my perspective. I couldn’t stop giggling. It’s not your fault because the same things happened with my ex-partner; he had similar perspectives just like you. So I kept explaining and explaining to him, but he never understood. So I was not surprised about your comment. What I was surprised was that you had lived in Japan and you have a Japanese husband, but you couldn’t get it. My ex-partner has never been to Japan. Maybe my English was not enough. Let me think for a couple of days to find better explanations. Or if somebody who understand my perspective, please help me here. I think it is something like I can never understand some English jokes even if how much they explained to me. However, if this gap is really critical in the relationship, we have to be serious. Maybe I should have been more serious about this gap when I was with my ex-partner….I mean, I should have looked for better explanations more seriously…
But, I can imagine how great your husband is!! And I enjoy discussing with you, too!!
Japanese women are not accustomed to asserting themselves.. Obedience to authority figures is a very powerful value (for both men and women), people are expected to do what they are told to do by their parents, teachers, the government. If they don’t, they are very harshly punished. So you can really only argue with people of the same social status as you, but confrontation is frowned upon. If you are going to disagree with someone you should do it politely and quietly, so as not to disturb the people around you. In your daily life you should avoid upsetting people around you, even complete strangers.
Confronting a pervert requires a completely different set of skills and attitudes. People have little experience of that kind of social interaction, and it violates a number of norms, so of course women might hesitate before doing it. There is also an issue of physical safety involved, if the man gets angry and you can’t get away from him.
Also, women are expected to subordinate themselves to their husband, which may imply a general expectation that women should be subordinate to men in general. Certainly, assertiveness is not a feminine value in Japan. Positions of power are generally reserved for men, women are not supposed to exert their personal power, that might be considered unusual and therefore bad.
Traditionally, I think sex was viewed as something that a wife had a duty to offer, and a man had a right to take. This gives rise to an attitude that the sexual activities of men should not be questioned, that men are not really responsible for their urges or their behaviour. So when a man sexually assaults a woman, the first response is to blame the victim, to look for some way in which she might have caused it.
We have similar problems in Western countries. However I think we are a little further advanced in dealing with them.
I’ve been following this discussion silently for a while and as far as I can understand it there are two camps:
1) the Western Guys who have seen their sex life with their Japanese wives disappear despite a healthy start and are confused as to why, and
2) the people who claim that the sole reason is that those guys are selfish in bed and just use their wife as a masturbation tool and hence there is no wonder that their wives aren’t interested.
Well I’m in the first camp but would like to redirect the discussion here a little as I feel it is getting a little off topic. I had a wonderful sex life with my wife (then girl-friend) for many years. She enjoyed it and often even instigated it herself. Over the years I have spent more and more time trying to understand her needs and make sure that she is the focus of “the event”. If anything now, I’m “better” now than I was when our sex life was at it’s peak. As far as I can read the thread here it seems to me as though there are a lot of guys like this and that is why they are confused. It would make more sense if it was something that never existed but it is something that has disappeared despite a lot of effort. For this reason I don’t really think the advice submitted by those writers in group 2 really helps. Am I right?
Kanbatsu, there are more than 2 groups here. I think that you guys who are having problems, probably should have marriage counselling before you get married, if you didn’t before you got married, then you should do it now, regardless of how far along in your marriage you are. The reason why, is that then you both will know that you’re on the same page regarding this issue. Of course, people aren’t mind-readers, and i say this because i have been through this kind of thing with my Japanese husband, where he expects a certain thing and i don’t know it because i can’t read his mind.
It takes alot of communication and understanding for a relationship, whether married, or not, to work. The biggest point to me is communication! Talk about what you both want, exchange your ideas, and let someone help you along, guide you. A marriage counsellor, or even a counsellor is a great way to do this as the woman in your life feels safe that she will not be backed into a corner, there is someone there to mediate.
I can say, that you know at first a relationship is shiny and new and you want to do it every day, but as life gets along sometimes women don’t want to do it. Sometimes it’s not just about not wanting to do it, women have very different emotions to men and sometimes we have hormonal imbalances and problems such as those. It can’t all be blamed on culture and society, there are other underlying issues.
For example, when i got married to my husband yes we were like rabbits. But then i started taking hormones to get pregnant and my emotional state was all over the place, not to mention the hormones made me feel nothing, i couldn’t get aroused, i couldn’t orgasm, it was terrible. The best thing was that my husband, although he was frustrated, stuck with me, understood that it wasn’t my fault, it was the drugs i was taking, and through his love and encouragement we found a way. At one point i was so over sex, i didn’t want to do it all, it actually hurt me to have sex, but because of his love and commitment to me, we are still married 5 years later, because he took the time to understand me, we both communicated about it to each other, what we were feeling etc. I was pretty embarrassed but if you share the problem it is lesser.
I think the key word is communication. I don’t think anyone’s opinion on here is of lesser value, the point is it’s a discussion and we all come from different backgrounds, but it’s interesting to see the different points of view. Kanbatsu i wish you luck with your relationship. I can’t help feeling though that you lift up the words “the event”, maybe that is why your wife is backing off? If you played it down a little bit, she might feel more at ease. Cheers
(i can only say that is coming from a woman’s point of view)
kanbatsu
for the sake of discussion it may be possible that two categories of postings exist. though based on what has been written on this thread they aren’t significant numbers in group two.
perhaps considerably less that 50%, again based on the postings. if i’m in error, then please point out such.
as you state you are in group two and you have gotten ‘better’(i’m not sure that the women in most men’s lives can say that) then i am certainly puzzled as to why your sex life is less than you wish it too be. while nothing is ever 100% your dissatisfaction must be low enough for you to post here.
my first question is how has your lifestyle changed? therein may lie an answer
Well the main change for me has been my heightened focus on what my wife wants or might want. I’ve read lots of books and try to spend as much time as I can getting her relaxed and helping her enjoy both ordinary life and that after dark.
I’m not sure where you have studied, Mitaboy, but as far as I can tell everything you have written on this page is verbatim out of “Mars and Venus in the Bedroom: A Guide to Lasting Romance and Passion” by John Gray. Now there’s nothing wrong with that. I enjoyed the read despite the crass title. Infact, Nagoyan, you might find it interesting even though I think it is more written for the benefit of men.
So for that perspective, Mitaboy, can I ask you directly? What do I do if she wont let me help her to enjoy sex more. By that, specifically, I mean that she just doesn’t want me to touch her “downstairs” at all (hand, mouth, you name it). How can I help her to feel good if for her it is some sort of taboo. Have you run across a woman like that before?
kanbatsu
[If anything now, I’m “better” now than I was when our sex life was at it’s peak.]
before i can attempt to answer your question, what has she said or done to convince you that you are better?
have you ever touched her “downstairs”? reaction?
i need to try to understand her.
as i’ve never had your experience
Yes, I have. And she told me to stop as she was too embarassed. “hazukashii”
kanbatsu
(copied from post 251)
[If anything now, I’m “better” now than I was when our sex life was at it’s peak.]
before i can attempt to answer your question,
what has she said
or
done to convince you that you are “better”?
I have been reading the article and comments with great interest. Having been in Japan for many times and being married to a Japanese woman for two years now, I think I have some ideas on the issue. I think first of all that things should not be seen too specifically as a problem for Japanese women and men, and their foreign partners, as these matters are a problem all over the world. This regarding of the Japanese as a ‘special’ case is something they cultivate not in the least by themselves (being Japanese is completely different from any other race…blabla…)
Anyhow, something that plays surely an important role is the way Japanese women view their own sexuality and role. First of all Japanese woman are taught from a very early age that being passive is being attractive. When one looks at Japanese porn, the girls are always being DONE things to. They cry, whine, plead, say no please, don’t hurt me, forgive me etc. (mou yurushite, yamete yamete, yada, hazukashi, itai….). Compare this porn with the US stuff where women scream YES,YES, harder etc. Their school uniforms make them also unable to express any sexuality or uniqueness. Some ‘bad’ ones may secretly roll up their skirt after school so that it becomes much shorter, but it doesn’t get them anywhere. On the other hand I experienced also a less self-conscious and less guilty attitude towards sex, probably due to the lack of christian morale.
Wishing everyone on the forum a very good day,
Kuroobi
fuckedgaijin
I think japanese women are the most desired because of the lack of understanding of their culture. I think a outside in view is that they are humble, submissive, and most of all loyal and all they want in return is a loving provider. But that’s not how it goes in reality they aren’t like that at all, except the provider part but what woman doesn’t want that. In reality once they have a provider that’s the main thing, and then they naturally shift over to family caretaker money management once kids arrive and everything else including you is a distant second. I have to strongly disagree that japanese women are the most beautiful, I realized that it’s all the things that you think they are that they aren’t that makes them more desired, at least for me. My infatuation for the japanese woman evaporated into a more cynical disillusion, the more I researched the culture and got to know some. I think it’s that common infatuation with the image of a japanese woman that makes her attractive vs the actual woman and makes you look past her looks. This doesn’t mean that they aren’t attractive but more a overall sense of cuteness, but the cute mannerisms, laughs and antics all get ruined when viewed with the entire arrogance and in some aspects undeveloped nature of communication.(no, I am not misunderstanding it you should be able to communicate in any and all forms to have a deeper understanding of communication) When I look at a pretty japanese woman I think “ahh she’s cute” when I see a pretty brazilian, african, spanish african american, italian and yadda yadda woman I get ‘Like a rock’ and that speaks volumes to me.
You go out and find a Japanese woman and think you have the best woman in the world because you don’t fully understand her or the culture and feel in time things will grow and you look back sometime later realizing that the woman you have while you might love her is not the same woman. You basically got trapped pretty much all women in every culture do this, don’t feel bitter about it just figure out how you want to move forward. Anyway I would never marry a japanese woman now, I would date them but I can’t see myself marrying one. To all who have congratulations I wish nothing but happiness for you
It sounds like you are angry towards Japanese women, perhaps because of your own experience. I’m entering my 9th year of marriage to a Japanese girl now. I’ve read all the posts as they come in from this thread and its been interesting getting everyones different experiences and views. Our sex life has definitely declined with time and after kids it also took a dive. Looking back I thought she’d changed from the girl I met as lots of other guys think. But I’ve changed to. I also thought she was distant at times and cold. But now I slowing a bit, and I kinda get it I think. Relationships are such a complex thing and theres alot of give and take required. Forgiveness. I learnt to be patient after having kids. I guess kids grounded me allot and maybe girls get grounded a lot fasted than us guys. I think it doesn’t matter what nationality of girl you marry, sex will always change and maybe its just a case that it changes at different rates for the sexes. As I get older sex doesn’t hold center stage. 9 years and Im still learning about her, I’ll probably fully understand her just before I die if ever but its one of her charms. Shes still mysterious, but learning all these things has been a great journey. Dont get me wrong, we have had shit times, she went back to Japan once or twice with the kids to have a break, but we stuck at it. I will stick with it because I think my family deserves it. Thats what makes strength. Takes a long time to get to know some one who’s not your family, no matter where they come from.
The Japanese are not special or different they are just people like you and me. To them we are weird. I think maybe you should take a good hard look at yourself before putting a stamp on the women of a particular culture.
Here Here Mr V! Well said!
It has been interesting to read the view and comments of so many people. I am married to a Japanese lady and we are expecting a baby later this year. From our discussions, I can now understand how this becomes such a big impediment to sex in Japan.
Unlike in Australia or the US where they say there is no problem making love (other than there is a good chance she might not feel up to it), in Japan the doctors actively recommend against making love while the wife is pregnant. Additionally, after the baby is born it is common to for the baby to sleep in the same bed as the parents, in between them. These issues have the potential to take this intimacy out of the marriage for a long time during which a routine is created.
Obviously these are just 2 of many different issues that could cause problems but ones I have noticed that don’t seem to be discussed too much above.
To Majimeaussie,
Gidday Im a kiwi, just over the ditch. And after 2 kids I definitely recommend putting baby in a separate room from day 1 if you have the space. It will save untold problems later. But it might take some smooth talking on your part if your wife has other ideas. Do some research on it. As long as you have a fast response time to babys needs, baby will be content and feel safe and being in the room next door is no issue really. We did it with both our kids and its smooth sailing now. The first baby is always a steep learning curve but just relax with them really and enjoy! congrats by the way
Unless you have a space issue there is no reason why you can’t have the baby in your room. Just get a cot with wheels on it. I find that is a good way to go as you can wheel baby in and out of the room, when you need to. Keep the baby in the room as long as you feel or mother feels the need to keep an eye on the baby, and for other times wheel it out into the baby’s room.
I wouldn’t advocate having the baby actively sleeping in the bed with parents as there is a chance of rolling on the baby, or SIDS. Plus it’s just going to mess up their head at a later date, and it will be harder to get them to sleep in their own bed. It’s better to set a routine now, before they get older and too reliant on sleeping in your bed.
Doctors in any country say alot of BS about what you can and can’t do while pregnant, it’s up to the mother and how she feels her limits are.
I think Mr V is right though, there are alot of guys on here that think they’re pretty special coz they married a japanese woman and now having probs in their sex life. It’s not just with japanese women it’s with any race of women. Every marriage is hard work and it takes a lot of understanding and committment to make it right. No one said it was a walk in the park.
The underlying issue is that women are far more complex than men can ever understand. We have emotions you men don’t have. I would recommend getting out a Dr Phil book from the library, it worked for my marriage. Japanese men are hard to understand too you know! But somehow with a bit of reading, alot of understanding and compassion, it happened. You have to understand that us not wanting to have sex is mostly not a reflection on you guys, get over yourselves! We have emotions far beyond what you can comprehend, why do we have to explain it? I think pre-marriage counselling is good. Then you can set out your demands and things you want, before you tie the knot. If you’re not happy with her, you can go your separate ways and find a nymphomaniac who suits your needs.
Kelly
I think it’s certainly true that there can be many reasons for sexual problems in a relationship. And many of those reasons are universal. But most of the problems discussed in this thread have nothing to do with baby sleeping arrangements and other easily remedied concerns, they are about a clash of values stemming from cultural differences. Some people don’t seem to believe that such differences actually exist, or are worthy of consideration. I think it’s commendable to keep an open mind and steer clear of stereotypes and cliches. It’s important not to overlook the obvious and invent imaginary causes for simple problems. But at the end of the day these things called Japanese culture and Western culture are real, and learning about how they interact is valuable to those of us trying to bridge the gap.
I don’t think that women are any more or less complicated than men, and I think that such beliefs are chauvinistic. There are vast differences in how men and women relate to their own emotions, but that’s another story.
You have totally missed the point of what those people were saying then.
And also if you refuse to believe that women have a depth of emotions that you can’t relate to, then relationships will always be a problem for you.
And also, i wasn’t stating that it wasn’t a clash of cultures. Of course it is one, but at the most basic level it’s a relationship between Man and Woman. Of course the cultural consideration is worthy, but it’s not the be all and end all of a relationship. You talk about stereotypes but you are the one who is analysing the relationship on race only.
“It’s important not to overlook the obvious and invent imaginary causes for simple problems”
What imaginary causes are you referring to, James?
I don’t believe that men lack emotional depth. What possible basis can there be for a comparison between the emotions of two different people? It’s the height of presumption to claim to know what another person is feeling. You’ve compared what you feel with what you imagine I feel, and you expect me to believe you when you tell me that you have “emotional depth” and I don’t. If I tried to convince you that I had discovered that I possessed some intangible quality that you lacked, would you pay any attention to me? I don’t think so.
It’s simply not true that I only analyse relationships in terms of cultural factors. But I would say that I think that where men have complained about passivity and lack of interest in sex from their partners, it is mostly caused by Japanese attitudes to sex. The statistics discussd in the article bear this out in my opinion.
Also I think that knowlege of real Japanese culture is lacking in most of us Westerners, and therefore culture is the most beneficial topic of conversation.
I didn’t say that women have more emotions than men what i wanted to say is that women have emotions that men can never understand and it is the same for men. Unless we can each live as a woman and a man we will never truly understand what each other is thinking or feeling.
I am not trying to convince you of anything, this is just a discussion. You can believe what you want as i am free to do so.
I would never try to think i know what my husband is thinking or feeling because i don’t. Yes he’s from a totally different culture than me. It can’t be all about his race though. It’s about if he’s willing to sit down and communicate with me what exactly he wants in our relationship and if i do the same. Yeah, some Japanese are brought up in the way that their parents never expressed love for each other, never talked about relationships. He is from such a family, but somehow he knew what he wanted, and he tried to move out of that shell that he grew up in and sought to express himself where his family could not teach him how to.
How many times have i looked at him and had no idea what he was thinking! So many! But if i do not ask him and he does not tell me…then this is what i think these guys are facing. It’s lack of communication. Even if we have cultural differences, there are ways around it.
We tend to treat each other as mind readers in relationships but the truth is we don’t know if you don’t tell and vice versa. You won’t know unless you ask.
Also, if you find that you are getting into a serious relationship with a japanese guy or girl, and sex is important to you, i think you should have a serious in depth communication about your expectations. It’s common sense don’t you think?
I feel that people on here are blaming the fact of cultural differences, but just like any other relationship, if you didn’t sit down and voice what you want, he or she will not know it and keep going on blindly, oblivious to your wants or needs.
I have been married for 5 years and i didn’t get here because i scrutinised his culture. I got here by understanding and communicating with my husband.
I agree with what you say about communication. But I think that when you are dealing with someone from another culture you often don’t know what are the important questions to ask. People frequently don’t really know why they do things or see things a certain way. Our fundamental values and expectations are formed at a very young age, so we are not very aware of them, which makes it hard to talk about them. So I think learning a bit about the culture can make communication easier.
Hi I am Gaijin(asian) married to a wondeful Japanese man.I fell inlove with him because of his wonderful qualities.He is very exceptional among the Japanese,He is affectionate,thoughtful,open of his feelings and emotions.We tell each other we love each other everyday.Englis is our main communication since we are both speaking different language,He speaks excellent english(he had his masters degree and phd in UCLA).The marriage was beautiful until after 3 years i slowly changes (We are married for almost 7 years now).As what youve said,sex declined which I dont really mind I am busy with the kids and house too.But from once in two weeks in becomes once a month and sometimes onece in two months,We kissd,we hugs and thats about it,Sometimes I would innitiate and joke to him once the kids are asleep but he would say he would finish answering all his emails first then he would come very late sometimes like 3 oclock in the morning,which I am already deadly tired and soun asleep by that time.Ive tried a lot of things dress nicely,wear sexy lingerie,he loves my body but its just what it is.And life is becoming more and more monotonous,I take care of the kids the house,his needs( I dont take care of his money) he gives me a lil allowance(which I am contented),I go for grocery,brings the kids to their activities,do their homeworks and dad is at home we play,we eat outside.Its a picture of a happy family which is what I want(love my kids soooo much) and also what he wants.Its like that all the time,My life revolves in this home sweet home with emptiness,I wasnt looking for anything other than the way things used to be(good laugh,good communication,and affection).My husband use to be saying Im his besfriend and I felt teh same way but not anymore.I felt like we are drifting apart.
I sometimes do soul searching,and sometimes wonders,If we will continue to be like these for years,by the time I will have the guts to get out I would be old and wouldnt be able to enjoy life to much at all,I have tallked abot it to my husband but still the same.Im just 25 now and living in misery and suffering in silence,Good thing I have my kids theyre the reasons wake up everymorning…
To Mr. V in post 256
While I congratulate you on your 9th year of marriage, I have to say your comment of “anger towards japanese women” comment is s far off base I assume it’s because your overly sensitive to my criticism your married to one. I’m sure my snapshot post can be of my views and experiences weren’t complete and therefore possibly misleading, however a quick review of your own statement is in order;
“I also thought she was distant at times and cold. But now I slowing a bit, and I kinda get it I think.” ” I think it doesn’t matter what nationality of girl you marry, sex will always change and maybe its just a case that it changes at different rates for the sexes.”
This clearly shows me that on some level your changing to meet her expectations vs marriage which what I have been taught is about growing together each and every day. Now this happens in a number of ways but one of which that’s very important is compromise, where is the compromise ? I’m not referring to you specifically at this point but the question in general when view with most of the posts here along side the comments I quoted above. You can’t have compromise without communication, and in my experience along side some comments made that seems to be where the big gap is. See when all I knew about Japan and it’s people was what’s filtered through in america and samurai sunday for those old enough to remember, I had this view of a whole culture of honest honorable people, I fell victim to a stereotype. My experiences led me to the conclusion that the present day Japanese woman is much different then the ones from the older generation, much like the USA. So with my eyes wide open I took another look and discovered they aren’t exactly what I would look for in a mate. Though I’m sure it’s not impossible to find one. I find myself MORE attracted to woman of other cultures with PASSION and who aren’t afraid to communicate and grow with over time, and I simply thrive on that. I like Japan, the culture and it’s people…… it’s just I like other things more, is that so bad ?
PS Forgot to say it’s not all about sex, at least not with me. Some posts here talk about the absence of affection as well that to me is more critical then the act of sex itself. I’m very understanding of a woman not being in the mood, heck I’ve even been the one with the “head ache” (it was a very weird and strange time I don’t wanna talk to much about it) however Affection is a must! That’s one of the core needs of a marriage, and with my experiences along side the comments on this page one of my biggest criticism of being with a japanese woman. Me disagreeing with the most beautiful women in the world comment is just my opinion and I think I have a point, I was one of them. Most people who grow fascinated with them have been influenced by media at some point first, those who have traveled there and gotten enchanted while there, well that’s more genuine and not what I am discussing.
To James of post 261 and 263
I agree and whole heartily support with your comments and views, and not just because they line up with my own. It is because of similarities that I am able to understand your view. I don’t even understand Mr V’s post in response to mine in 256 when I reread it, seem he miss the point of my post completely nothing in his post is replying to the points made in mine though for some reason I thought their was a word limit and cut bits out which made it less clear, I do admit that.
To kelly
Understanding comes with patience, time and communication to say women can’t be understood is in my mind insane, it’s all about how vulnerable you can allow yourself to be to get that person to open up to you and expose themselves, some make this harder then it should be. But I say to you NO woman or man WILLING to communicate will remain misunderstood(though they might be crazy *shrug*) it’s simply impossible unless you have a really hard time listening… a really really hard time. Their isn’t a voodoo about it or something mysterious, women aren’t from venus they just dress like it(comments made in () are not meant to offend but lighten the mood
)
I can understand emotions I’ve be looking listening and watching for long time, but it’s why that gets me and most time when I try to get deeper into it they can’t even explain the why to me. So I think it’s more about women coming to terms with their emotions/feelings so they can explain themselves and dare say they at times may not even know themselves. Men on the other hand know exactly how they feel but because of how we are brought up(mostly older gen.) we have a hard time talking about it because of the manhood thing so we bottle it up and don’t deal with it. Some of that still filters down, some men raise sons differently to include the things they wish they had from their fathers and to talk about how they feel more and that it isn’t a bad thing. I think in america this isn’t recognized and when it was, the media dubbed “metro male” and lumped the “metro male” with the “talking man” and made it viewed as a bad thing again. I’m am interested in how japanese men are raised to evaluate the cultural differences that may exist.
Mr LOVALOVA totally missed my point. When i said that you would never relate to women i was talking about a depth of emotions. I’m not making it hard for anyone, i just see that certain things that women deal with in life, men will never experience, and therefore never truly understand. It is the same for men, we women will never understand what it is like to be a man, unless we have a sex change, so therefore, understanding the way men think is not going to happen. Sure, as i have lived with my husband for just under 6 years, i can understand what my husband is thinking, just through knowing my husband, the way he acts, what he likes, i will know to a certain extent how i think he is going to think about something or react. But that is only through repetition, not because i understand exactly what he is thinking. He is the same with me.
YUBI, have you actually talked to your husband about this? Maybe he is doing it without realising, maybe he is tired. I have experienced that with my husband before, but i talked to him about it and he had no idea, just because he was busy at work and had a lot of things to do, he was very tired and wanted some time on his own, but he didn’t know what my feelings were and didn’t know i was hurt. I think you should sit down with him casually, with a cup of tea or something and slowly bring up the subject, talk to him about it, tell him how you feel. Don’t accuse, but just talk about your feelings. See what he has to say. If you want to talk about it email me at bananamanju(@)hotmail.com
Mr V,
Thanks for the congratulations and I understand what you are saying. We are discussing the issue and I am sure that we will come to an agreeable solution.
Kelly,
While I appreciate your comments and understand where you are coming from, it seems to me that they are lacking a bit of a cultural awareness. For your comment “I wouldn’t advocate having the baby actively sleeping in the bed with parents … Plus it’s just going to mess up their head at a later date” you do realize that the baby sleeping with the parents is very common in Japan don’t you. From talking to various Japanese people probably more than 50% and sometimes up to Junior highschool age. Have that many Japanese really got messed up heads?
Also your comment “Doctors in any country say alot of BS about what you can and can’t do while pregnant, it’s up to the mother and how she feels her limits are.” also seems to lack cultural awareness. You realize that Japanese are brought up to trust and not question doctors. With that and the nervousness of a first pregnancy you expect a Japanese wife to just blow off the doctors instructions? Once again, from the way I have been brought up I can understand your comments and agree to them to a large extent but in the Japanese context they are not going to work.
On the discussion of cultural v personal issues in the marriage. In our case I think we look at each other as husband and wife first and foremost. Not foreign husband / Japanese wife. There are some issues that are due to personal items and some that are definitely related to cultural issues. To deal with the issues related to culture it is necessary to recognize this and discuss a solution reasonable to both of us.
I have been reading and watching these comments with interest. My wife has been discussing alot with you. Actually, i agree with her posts because i believe in “when in rome do as romans do”. If we are here in australia, as Japanese, we should follow the custom. So, my wife is right.
I think my wife has culture awareness, in fact, more than me, even i grew up in Japan. I think alot of Japanese are messed up, and i don’t think Japanese have great culture, in my opinion, it’s kind of fucked. I always say this. I just don’t agree with alot of things my people do.
When my wife and i went to Japan, my wife followed all culture so well, i was so proud of her, because she had attend university for 3 years, she knew more about polite culture than me. Even i’m Japanese, my family is not so traditional, so she taught me few things. And my parents love her because she speak Japanese with them well, and fit into my family so well.
I think if my wife had our kids in Japan she would follow the custom as far as she could, but it is ok to make your own new way. As husband and wife we have made our own new way of relationship, we don’t have to follow others.
Well that is just i wanted to say. That i don’t want kids sleeping in same bed with me anyway. I want kids having their own beds. My bed is for me and my wife.
to kelly
I have not missed your point I disagree with your point for the reasons I outline in my post.
I said;
“Understanding comes with patience, time and communication”
you said in your response;
“When i said that you would never relate to women i was talking about a depth of emotions.”
I strongly disagree, you then said
” i just see that certain things that women deal with in life, men will never experience, and therefore never truly understand. ”
With the exception of things physical, I see little to support this statement and it’s not that I am undermining that difference I just fail to see how it vastly separates us emotionally. Not to say I haven’t given it sufficient thought. Please feel free to highlight these differences if you will.
You then go on and say;
“Sure, as i have lived with my husband for just under 6 years, i can understand what my husband is thinking, just through knowing my husband, the way he acts, what he likes, i will know to a certain extent how i think he is going to think about something or react. But that is only through repetition, not because i understand exactly what he is thinking. He is the same with me.”
To start that opening statement sounds a lot like the result of “Understanding comes with patience, time and communication” knowing a person’s likes and dislikes is not what I am talking about, it’s deeper then that. Remember “it’s all about how vulnerable you can allow yourself to be to get that person to open up to you and expose themselves” We are talking about a relationship/marriage so this statement applies to both the man and the woman. No ones a mind reader if your inner deepest thought are locked away for fear no one will understand, the person might have the wrong reaction, you want them to understand without sying it or whatever other reasons exist you then no one possibly will understand you. It’s up to you and your spouse/companion to open proper lines of communication and talk about those feeling. And you should be able to make each other feel comfortable enough to do so.
My question to you, Are you saying woman have deep emotions once communicated, can’t be understood by men ?
“With the exception of things physical, I see little to support this statement”
I was stating my OPINION, i don’t have to give you evidence of it. You are not here for a conversation, only to steamroll my opinion.
In my relationship it’s not about vulnerability. My husband has seen that side of me, knows that side of me. We just have grown up in such different worlds, it will be years and years before we know each other to that depth. It’s not about letting someone get close to us, it’s about finding out about each other as the years go on. Neither of us is trying to make it hard for the other one, or trying to close ourselves off from each other.
“To start that opening statement sounds a lot like the result of “Understanding comes with patience, time and communication” knowing a person’s likes and dislikes is not what I am talking about, it’s deeper then that.”
Well that is my marriage you are talking about. And it works for us. And it’s deep enough for us.
“No ones a mind reader if your inner deepest thought are locked away for fear no one will understand, the person might have the wrong reaction, you want them to understand without sying it or whatever other reasons exist you then no one possibly will understand you. It’s up to you and your spouse/companion to open proper lines of communication and talk about those feeling. And you should be able to make each other feel comfortable enough to do so. ”
My deepest thoughts are not locked away. You see before i got married, i failed to tell my husband one very important thing that had happened to me, and scarred me for life. It affected our sexual relationship very bad, until i opened up to him and told him about it. My secret was revealed, the thing which i had told no one. My husband did not run away from me, he stayed with me, supported me and helped me through it. Every day is a challenge, but he is always there for me, supporting me. He made me realise it wasn’t my fault. I was the victim. My deepest thoughts my husband knows, my deepest fears, my husband already knows. We’ve already opened our lines to communication and we talk about our feelings.
However, the little things, the cultural ideas will always be different, sometimes known, sometimes unknown, in our relationship. I’m still learning about him every day, and i think i will keep learning new things about him every day until i die. And he will about me too, until the day he dies.
im married to a japanese man. we live with his entire family including grandparents, parents, siblings, etc… we are never alone together, we dont sleep in the same room and none of the doors (screens) in his house have locks (including the bathroom). before we were married we met and lived together in ny. it was a different story then. after i moved to japan with him i feel like i married a stranger. and i lost my entire life.
Hey Lost,
If you need to talk azumarisan(@)gmail.com email me.
I’m just wondering why you are all together in one house? Seems abit crowded, especially because i know how small Japanese houses are. Is there a reason for it? Did you agree to it?
Kelly
Hi Lost,
I’m sorry to hear things are so difficult for you. However, I wonder if your husband is any happier about the situation than you are. The Japanese prefer to suffer alone, so if he is miserable he may not discuss it with you.
It’s also possible that he sees the situation quite differently to you. He may see some positives to the situation that you don’t. Maybe he saw this situation coming for a long time and has prepared himself for it, but neglected to tell you (the Japanese are terrible at discussing expectations). If you could get him to talk about the situation, I’m sure you would learn some things that would surprise you, and hopefully help you find a way to improve your domestic situation.
- James
*Phew* I just finished reading everything. It had me hooked!
I’m a student of Japanese at University in my final year now having been in a couple of relationships with Japanese girls myself. As I’m far from knowledgeable about most of the finer points about frequency of sex and especially marriage, I’ll refrain from comment right now.
But one thing that did occur to me reading through this thread was the tendency to advocate communication as a means of resolving relationship issues. I, having been raised in Britain, also believe communication is crucial to the healthy functioning of a relationship, for resolving sexual differences and conveying feelings (although I realise that this is a very general statement to make). However, I have heard in the past and run into problems myself in the relationships I had that, as a generalisation, Japanese people tend not to be as direct and expressive as most Westerners. This point has also been iterated in this very thread.
Given then, that some Japanese people don’t feel comfortable, natural or immediately at ease with this Western-style of directing conveying one’s feelings, what is to say that direct and open communication is the best way to overcome the cultural differences that arise in international relationships? If Japanese people do not feel comfortable discussing their feelings and a certain amount of ishin-denshin (unspoken understanding) is expected by them, how might a Westerner better shift his or her focus to the Japanese way of ‘thinking’ – that is, the more indirect, passive method of understanding?
Is this even possible for a Westerner with only a moderate amount of understanding of Japanese society or is it absolutely necessary for Japanese people to ‘break out’ of their shell and learn to directly convey their feelings? In other words, can these sexual problems be alleviated without the need to resort to face-to-face conversations about them which many Japanese may find hard?
Well i have lived overseas and i feel that going back to japan i could not have relationship with japanese women because they play games. Of course they dont tell me what they really feel cuz its some big game to them. I like western women cuz they say what they mean and what they want. The time wasted playing games is too much. Cuz from my prespective ive dated japanese womenw hen i was home and it wasnt that good.
I think my people should open up and say what they mean its the time to do that. Wake up japan! i say. I guess though that japanese who dont go outside of japan will never wake up cuz they have such narrow view of the world they cant express themselves and who they are. I kinda look down on them cuz i feel sorry for them but i cant take that narrow minded view.
I’m happy to have r/ship with women outside of japan and i like to think i’m a little diff to the average japanese maybe it’s proud. But anyway i think if you try to figure out japanese women too much it will just do your head in, cuz they like playing games thats it.
I agree you have to communicate to work a relationship out and japanese are famous for not communiating and not having relationships work cuz of it. Anyway marriage in japan is not for love its cuz it’s expected. We got told long ago we dont have to love the person just marry them have kids do the expected way. I cant stand that way. I want to be with my love.
The last bullet point in the article (paraphrased, that some couples develop a brother-sister relationship that makes sex feel repulsive) had me shaking my head. My wife is Japanese, I’m American, and I’ve lost all interest in sex with her because I feel like she’s either a younger sister or a daughter (which frankly is how she behaves – not like a grown-up woman) so the idea of sex with her at this point is a real turn-off. She doesn’t feel that way but she also doesn’t do a good job at pretending she’s attracted to me. I think she just wants us to remember how to have sex so we remember how to do it when we want to have kids.
An interesting point Bill. I have a friend who is married to a Japanese woman in a similar situation. He describes their relationship as more like brother and sister and says all sexual flair has been lost. Their are many other possible contributing factors in their relationship from what I gather though, but it is saddening to hear what they are going through. I hope you can revive the passion in your relationship. Mitaboy claims to be knowledgeable on the subject – maybe you should contact him..?
When it comes to the issue of communication, I think both partners have to compromise a bit. It’s not possible for a westerner to adopt the Japanese way of relating in less than a couple of years, so the Japanese partner has to accept this. And the Western/other nationality partner has to understand that communicating openly goes against years of conditioning and is not going to be easy for a Japanese person. So you have to find a middle ground.
I agree with Komorisan, that Japanese people don’t communicate and that this ruins relationships. But what I have come to appreciate is how much you can communicate effectively without words, show them that you care rather than tell them. Which I think may be a more Japanese way of having a relationship.
Sexuality is not regarded as a positive thing in Japan. They are like 18th century Europe: sex is dirty, doing it makes you dirty, chastity is a virtue. Probably the reason for this is the propagation of pornography, because sex is not depicted at all in mainstream media. So people don’t get exposed to a lot of positive role models. Given how vile Japanese porn generally is it’s no wonder girls aren’t that interested in sex.
- James
james largely hit the nail on the head.
japanese women have a mixed hollywood tainted, sex and the city, knight in shining armor, white picket fence view of marriage and sex.
the communication starts before marriage. girls ask me what’s wrong if we aren’t having sex.
after marriage communication regarding sexual issues certainly is more difficult(if not impossible?)
what many western men fail to realize is that sex is more of a performance for japanese women. they DO NOT enjoy it nor need it at the same level as western women.
my email is available to anyone through the administrator
Interesting thoughts Mitaboy. May I ask you something? From what I gather from this thread, you are not yet married, but you say you have had lots of success pleasing women and make your expectations from the relatinship clear from the start.
If communicating about sexual issues is a lot more difficult or even impossible after marriage, how do you plan to avoid the common senario of sex going out the window after marriage? I know you said you would get divorced if your future wife stopped having sex with you on the level you want, but I’m supposing you would try to fix the problem first..?
Also, James, some interesting stuff. Just how far do you think it is possible for a Westerner/person of another nationality to adopt the ‘Japanese’ way of communiating? And if it is possible, how much do you think constitutes a healthy marriage in terms of open communication? As in, just how much open communication is necessary to avoid stagnation in a relationship? Difficult questions, I know, but I’d like to hear what you think.
tremor
have yet to have sexual issues because i’m really direct about my sexual desires very early in the relationship. in most cases BEFORE we’ve had sex the first time, and certainly by the third sexual encounter. feel free to modify the following as you deem fit.
please do not ask why it works. i charge for that information.
the wording is very specific. change at your own risk.
[many japanese girls are fun to be with, like new experiences, almost willing to try anything. many american girls are not so open-minded.
but many or most Japanese girls are not that good at sex, some are just horrible.probably most japanese women are not good at sex because many japanese men are soooooo bad. but i still have to be careful about that. especially because i’m not a selfish person. japan’s population is shrinking because people are not enjoying sex, sex make babies, very simple logic.
american men are used to sex 3 – 5 times a week. japanese girls 1 – 2 times - maybe. for many american women, if the sex is not good women will leave their men.]
the bar has been set. those that are not interested are instantly weeded out. i suspect, but i don’t know because i’m not married that as the bar has been set the japanese woman isn’t likely to change. if she did for other than health reasons i would leave, period. i stae as much in my relationships and have done so on one occasion. as i’ve stated earlier they ask me when the sexual frequency goes down. then again i spend considerable pleasing them, it is almost like a drug.
the pleasure part. sorry, i charge for that information too, but the information is free on the internet. the “why?”of the above text isn’t available on the internet. i use the “why it works?” in various aspects of a relationship and it does work.
i counsel on this all the time. western men make mistakes BEFORE they get into the relationships with japanese women. the mistakes generally occur because japanese women satisfy needs and desires that many western(american) men had not had success in having fulfilled in america. japanese women can do so at a minimal level because many of the men had sub-par to very few relationships in america. please note i’m using many men, not most men, though from empirical observations i can think i can say most. my expectations of women were forged in america. i just altered my approach to account for cultural perceptions when i came to japan.
forgive the mistakes (:_;)
I think that communication in any culture is largely a matter of symbols, little cliches that convey a lot of information. And you can pick these up simply by involving yourself in the culture, by reading books and watching movies. It’s hard and it’s a slow business, but it can be done. I like reading books and watching movies so I don’t see it as a chore. I can’t say I’ve achieved a great level of success, but on the other hand I’ve come a long way. And the more effort you make at communicating with your partner, the more you build up a level of shared understanding that is quite independant of cultural differences.
I doubt many Japanese are very good at explaining things like this, but if you learn to ask the right questions, you can get a lot out of talking to people too.
It’s a very good question as to how much open communication is necessary. I guess it depends on you, really. What do you want out of your relationship and how much can you compromise before the relationship stops being viable. The more secure you feel in the relationship, the less communication you need. I think there is a natural sort of entropy that causes people to drift apart, so the minimum is what is necessary to counteract this.
- James
Thanks for the replies.
Mitaboy>> Interesting theories. I hope you are right about the bar having been set before a relationship. I have always been pretty open about what I want and tried to satisfy my girlfriend’s needs too, but it’s difficult to know if I’m getting everything right. I think that, as other people have also noted, perhaps the frequency of sex declines naturally as we get older, regardless of culture. Of course, this will vary between people too, so I think (and hope) it’s a matter of good communication about one another’s needs very early on. You mention ‘before’ the relationship. I have never been as forward as to tell someone I’m interested in just how much sex I would like before, but I make it pretty clear soon afterwards my needs. I wonder, do you think notion of telling it before the ‘kokuhaku’ begins is gravely important, or is it more important just to be clear early on?
James>> Good points. It puzzles and perplexes me how situations where couples have these problems arise though. I’m somewhat idealistic I realise, but wouldn’t open communication throughout the relationship solve these sorts of problems? I realise there are probably things after marriage that occur that one cannot forsee, but surely issues of sex and the frequency of it, expectations and possible problems like sex and pregnancy will (and arguably should) be discussed long before marriage even occurs..?
tremor: I wonder, do you think notion of telling it before the ‘kokuhaku’ begins is gravely important, or is it more important just to be clear early on?
gravely – not so ominous but very important. my opinion, early on is too late unless you can handle her unwillingness or perhaps leaving the situation totally. i’m 52, while i do realize age is a factor in sexual frequency my expectation is 3 – 5 times a week and i try to date those women that are physically capable. that is to say 25 to 25 year old women.
That is very intersting article and makes me think about the turning point that we Japanese guys have to alter attitude toward women.
I am Japanese guy; however, I have been spending most of the time in the States lately and am pretty sure that I am totally different from typical Japanese men…am lot Americanized.
When I went back to Japan for the first time in three years, it was very weird to me that men expected women to obey them. In my office, a few men treated women like things. Probably, they could be only satisfied with taking over women, and that gives them a kind of dignity and confidence as a man. Of course, every Japanese guy is NOT like them, and some Non-Japanese guys also treat women like a pig.
I do not mean either the way Japanese guys behave toward women or the way American do is good or bad because of cultural differences. However, Who in the world expect women to be his kind of slave? Lol We are in 2008.
As the time goes by, things have to be changed.
Btw,I’d like you to read the book “Tuesdays with Morrie” and “Who moved my cheese”
I bet it WILL change your life.
Take care you guys!
Kelly-
I stop responding because talking to you is pointless, I’m talking about relationships not your marriage. We may cover some of that in our conversation but remember what the overall topic/subtopic is, this isn’t or rather should not have been personal. I’ll make this my last post on the subject as I have nothing left to say, it’s already been well said. If you could read my post a bit more objectively instead of subjectively we could have had a nice conversation, but because of the latter you misunderstood a lot. Anyway I am happy you are in a happy marriage the world needs more happiness.
MrLovaLova (Kelly-) -
Ditto. I also hope that unrelated stuff finishes soon.
I have been watching with bewilderment… It made me a bit unwell (kind of
if someone moved my house very close to a busy highway) and I have stopped
reading this forum (evacuated I guess) for a couple of months.
How much less subtle can that message be.
Hope that is it.
I don’t see how it’s “unrelated”, we were talking about sex in marriage, and japanese-westerner marriage.
You mean it’s unrelated because you think that western guys with Japanese women are exclusive?
You can hint all you like subtly or unsubtly, i have as much right as you to post my thoughts on this forum and i’m going to continue to do so.
Mitaboy says “what many western men fail to realize is that sex is more of a performance for japanese women. they DO NOT enjoy it nor need it at the same level as western women.”, okay so why don’t you just get over it then? If you know this before you get into a relationship, you basically have the operating manual then don’t you. If you don’t think that is a good relationship for you, just don’t have a relationship with Japanese women, find a different nationality, preferably one that likes sex. Or, find a mistress to feed your sexual needs and have a Japanese wife for your status or whatever it is you find good about them. I don’t agree with it, i think basically, you guys that are having problems and seem to keep talking about it but doing nothing is just going around and around in circles without ever solving the problem, it’s a little bit stupid. If you think you can never change the situation and don’t do anything about it, surely divorce is the only answer. You can’t change the person’s personality or their culture, so what are you going to do about it? Change yourself to suit their needs or cut all ties.
i have been reading sitting here reading lots of potsts for the past couple of hours, and i have to say i find it astonishing how some posters here openly say that they’ve had a relationship for 10 or more years and during all that time, felt that their sex life was going downhill….i mean that’s just outrageous to me. how on earth could you be in a relaotionship for so long and accept this type of thing? i would go absolutely insane.
so, can we confirm that japanese women are less interested in sex than ppl from the west? i sortof refuse to believe that, since i think all women in the world want an equal amount of sex really. but that’s my view of it.
also, i noticed that some posters find sex with their wives every month, or every 3 months or whatever, to be not enough. i think it depends on the person him/herself. i would personally find sex 3-5 times a week quite a lot actually. perhaps once a week, or once every few weeks would be good. however, it does also depend on the circumstances you’re in i think. like, im not saying i would ‘always’ want to have an equal amount of sex every week or whatever. i think it should come naturally, whether sometimes its two times a week during one period or once a month during the next.
i did also have some suggestions. what if a couple, who is married, has kids and obligations etc. wants more time for themselves, just went on a short vacation a couple of times a year? we’re talking a few days, a week at most. that way the husband and wife could spend some romantic time together, and have some nice loving again. and while they are gone during that period, the parents could leave the kids at their parents’ house. how would that work?
or do you think that my views are much too western, and could never work in japan?
finally, may i say that i find that after reading all these posts, i find getting married to a japanese woman quite frightening now. there was one post above that suggested that japanese women believe they have been completely educated by the time they are 23, and thus dont see the need to change themselves at all, whereas we from the west (or i am at least) are always open for change and new learning, rather than conservatism…
This is related to the topic, though not identical to the stories here. In any case, it’s my story. When I was living in America, in college, I dated and lived with a fellow student from Japan. She was 26 and I was 22. I was at the time a very romantic person, like an artist and kind of a dreamer. We had a great connection. We loved, we shared, we laughed, we cried, everything. For those three years or so, it was kind of like being married without actually being married. I felt it was a kind of evaluation time to see if we would do well as a married couple, and I think she had similar thoughts, at least for some of the time. About sex, I was surprised that she was a virgin at 26. It seemed really uncommon, but it felt special to both of us. There are a lot of personal memories that go along with this, which was the core of the relationship. In a sense, we kind of grew up together. From the start, we had sex basically anytime. Day, night, didn’t matter. We both communicated well about it and understood exactly how to satisfy each other in that way. Over time though, I think I made a serious error — maybe because I was young, I don’t know — but over time her desire for sex became less and less frequent. Really, I could have, and should have, met her half way and not insisted on having sex all the time when she didn’t particularly want to. When I think back on it, the goal shouldn’t have been something like “maximize orgasms” — I mean, that’s really kind of trite compared to the other, deeper intimacy that we shared. Because of this, when I suggested that we marry, she cried and said “I can’t do this anymore.” I think she loved me as much as I loved her, and I just wore her out with too many demands for sex. There was also a lot of stress toward the end: work, finances, her visa about to run out kind of forced a decision one way or another. She moved back to Tokyo, resolved though I think with a heavy heart, and I was crushed. Everything just crumbled in my life. I soon lost my job, got into drugs for a while, just lost my integrity. We still kept in touch by phone because over the time we had been so close to each other that it was just bizarre to be apart. At that point, I had pretty much hit rock bottom and was overwhelmed with thoughts of resolving the situation and getting back to the way things were when it was good. Unexpectedly, her parents invited me to visit the family in Japan, saying they wanted to repay the favor that I had taken her on a vacation to Santa Fe. I think her parents basically agreed with me that we could have worked it out and made our way into married life, as soul mates. She tells me her mother said as much, and it was a point of contention between them. I was not emotionally prepared for the visit, at all. I had some kind of shock reaction to everything, and literally was unable to sleep. I ended up awake for nine days straight and more or less lost my grip on reality from the severe sleep deprivation. It was awful. I don’t actually remember much from that vacation. Fragments. I had a photo album of me doing things in Japan that I really don’t remember — riding a rickshaw through a bamboo forest, smiling in front of a waterfall, eating some kind of fish, etc. Anyway, I don’t want to veer off discussing those troubles. It took years to get over, I’ll leave it at that. Having invested so much time in learning Japanese in preparation for what I expected would be a marriage, I felt like it would all be wasted if I just brushed it away. So I decided to come to Japan on my own and see where it leads. Since then, I’ve made the mistake of trying to recreate the same relationship — a terrible mistake, because every person is unique. That’s the whole point. Now that I’m living in Japan, I look back on this and hardly recognize my old self sometimes. I’ve straightened out in a lot of ways, become more responsible, etc. But it took the first year to get beyond the compulsion to have sex with people who reminded me of my ex-girlfriend. I really regret that way of living, that way of regarding people. I went to so many sex shops, mindlessly, and this is the part of me that did not “straighten out” until after a year. It hit me like a bullet to realize, what the hell have I become? This all started with love and a desire to be married and have that union, so how did it end up with meaningless sex? I’ve decided to try another year here, living a clean life. It has been interesting to read this discussion about marriage and sex among Japanese people and (often) people from other nations. Particularly because it was the very situation I wanted more deeply than my words can express. If what I wrote makes you want to say something, I would appreciate sincere and civil feedback. Thank you for your time.
“Really, I could have, and should have, met her half way and not insisted on having sex all the time when she didn’t particularly want to.”
this lesson was learned not to worry
“the goal shouldn’t have been something like “maximize orgasms””
whose orgasms, yours or hers?
Mitaboy, thanks. Yes, it’s ironic that we really learn lessons only after the fact. In any case…
I wrote, “the goal shouldn’t have been something like “maximize orgasms””
You asked, “whose orgasms, yours or hers?”
Both. Over time as we told each other what one another likes, it was very easy to reach the top. I cared a lot about her enjoyment — and it’s stimulating to see anyway. It was kind of just obvious that if she came first, we’d both be satisfied, so that worked out well. In retrospect, I think the problem was just wanting to do it pretty much any time all the time. For me, that was a perfectly sensible desire at the time, and for her it was just too often. As for learning from it, I don’t think it makes much sense to look for someone who is into constant sex. While that would be cool — while I’d also like eternal youth and boundless intellect and winning the lottery — it just isn’t the basis anymore. The love was more important, enough so that I’d rather adapt to the frequency of sex that most women seem to need, and just enjoy a good life.
From reading all of this, I don’t know where the right person to date and probably marry will be from. If it clicks here in Japan, that’s great, and if not, that’s fine. Sometimes I’d rather that nothing works out until something right works out. Maybe she’ll be from Texas, maybe from Tokyo, I can’t just presuppose it.
Wow, that’s an incredible story, Mark. It seems that even though you couldn’t control what was going on, you still had some pretty clear insights into it. Probably you came out of the situation stronger than you went into it. Thanks for sharing.
Excellent article and I think that the role that children play in rendering their parents sexless can’t be emphasized enough. Many kids sleep with the folks until an age that would be unacceptable in the west, and still manage to sneak into the folks’ bed whenever they wake up in the middle of the night. I would chalk it up to an innate Japanese sense of “loneliness” and longing to have someone always around them.
Our kids did this for a while, but I finally had to put my foot down and march them back into their own beds each time they tried to invade ours. It was really cutting into our sex life and I saw the writing on he wall when the wifey sighed with a “shiyou ga nai” and resigned that we would just have to largely put sex on hold until the kids got a little older. You can imagine my dismay at that comment!
Often I frequent local bars and talk to many Japanese ladies…all on a “friends” basis of course. The recurring them that I hear again and again is how the husband is too busy and never pays much attention to the wife. Being the curious guy that I am, I always find an innocent way to extract more information from them about the relationship and if often comes up that the wife is neglecting the “duties of a wife”, which puts everything in perspective for me. While I’m not trying to limit the fault of the husband in the relationship, what I’ve found by and large is that the wife goes to bed early (she gets up early to get the kids off to school, etc) and the husband doesn’t get home until 9-10 pm-ish. The ones that I’ve got to open up about their sex lives flat out tell me that they reject hubby’s advances most of the time as they’re too tired to humor him.
Funny thing is, that most of them admit that after a while that the husband just stopped trying. I didn’t have the heart to tell them that he’s probably found another outlet and doesn’t see the need to beg the wife for sex anymore.
Alternatively, if you’re single perhaps you should consider patterning your love life after this guy:
http://tinyurl.com/996ref
rather than going down the marriage route. These “girl friends” never say no. wink wink
Percy, I bet if your wife knew you were out chatting to married ladies about their sex lives she wouldn’t be happy about it! What a cheek you have.
Why is it automatically the woman’s fault that the marriage is sexless because she’s tired from making your obento in the morning and getting kids off to school plus cooking dinners and putting kids to bed? Could it be too hard for you to try to get home earlier or initiate it at another appropriate time?
As a Japanese woman who has an American boyfriend, and gone through reading all these comments, it has actually put me off western guys. If they only think about themselves and about sex all the time….i don’t want any part of it. I can see why these women just let it be and say “shou ga nai” to a sexless marriage. This kind of situation only validates a woman to be good enough for sex, and puts sex on a pedestal above every other experience in a relationship.
To insist that because of a wife’s daily routine, a man would go out and have an affair is preposterous and obviously it is the man’s fault because he is susceptible to that kind of activity BEFORE the marriage or relationship occured. Don’t put your short comings onto your wife because of a situation. If sex was all that mattered to you, don’t have kids, use a condom! Otherwise hire a prostitute who is there 7 days 24 hours to satisfy you.
Okay, i get that this topic is about sexless marriages, and i agree that i have a lot of friends that say they have them, but none of their Japanese husbands make them feel like they are the ones who caused it or make them feel low because of it. The way the western guys on this forum go on, it just seems like they keep telling each other it’s the woman’s fault, if she doesn’t do X then man will go elsewhere. As far as i’m concerned, the women who have bf’s/husbands such as these would be better off without them.
I and many other Japanese women do not want to be with guys with a one-track mind.
Mami,
Wow…where to begin here? Nobody’s saying that sex is the be-all and end-all of a marriage, even though you seem to zero in on that point alone.
For your information, my wife doesn’t make a bento for me and I take the kids to school in the mornings and share in the household chores. The Japanese method of dusting just doesn’t cut it with me, so I take it upon myself to do that plus the cleaning of all the bathrooms and toilets.
Also, my wife has only a part-time job that brings in little money. Everything she earns she spends 90% of on herself. What if I just woke up one day and said “Sorry honey, with everything going on in my life and my busy schedule, I just don’t feel like working a full-time job anymore” to her? In marriage you work together to meet one another’s needs, and I think that some Japanese women dismiss sex altogether as non-essential, while still putting a high premium on brand goods and living the high life.
Did I say that I or other men require sex 24/7? No, I didn’t, did I? Once or twice a week isn’t unreasonable in my humble opinion and international polls back this premise up. Couples are having sex on an average of twice a week in other industrialized countries…Japan is an anomaly in this respect.
I also did not condone men going out and having affairs behind their wife’s back in response to their sexless marriage. Good thing that you’re not a betting woman Mami, because all the bars that I patronize are within a 5 minute walk of my home and as I said before I am doing nothing but talking to them. You would indeed lose that bet. I tell her all about the people that I talk to and she also talks to men sometimes when she goes out, which she also tells me about.
As far as my relationship with my own wife goes, I got tired of begging her for sex once or twice a week (again, this is the average in industrialized nations and not out of the ordinary and certainly not perverted) so I toned it down a bit. She did get worried when I quit asking for it and thought that I might be getting it elsewhere. 95% of the time when I ask her for sex, she would laugh it off and just say not now or tell me how tired she was. Funnily enough, when SHE wants it she cuts straight to the chase and tries to coax me into it (almost always when I’m not in the mood) or shows up in bed around 6AM fresh out of the tub and just jumps me. I don’t find this very appealing and I’ve told her that it’s ludicrous to deny me when I want it, and then to just demand it when she happens to be in the mood.
For your information, I have never cheated on my wife and don’t plan to do so anytime soon. The thought of having sex with someone I don’t love doesn’t appeal to me, and would never entertain thoughts of paying a visit to a prostitute either. Why do you assume that I didn’t want to have kids? I love my kids very much and am very active as a father. Does having kids mean that you have to give up on sex altogether? Is that the way you and most other Japanese women see it? My wife told me a little tale one time when she went for tea with a group of friends and they went around the table boasting of how little they have sex with their husbands. When one lady said that they do it once a week, she was roundly criticized for doing it too frequently and even told that she should go to the hospital because she was obviously “sick.” I’m of the opinion that the expectation amongst Japanese women to become sexless is quite high and some see it as a sort of rite of passage, so to speak. What’s more, I also think that in some cases that it is a form of revenge against the husband or a way of being a bit sadistic in denying him sex as a way to get her own rocks off by watching him suffer.
I’m not blaming Japanese women for everything that goes wrong in a marriage, but where there’s smoke there’s fire and if this many people are talking about this phenomenon, then there must be something there. If you’ve never met a Japanese guy that’s whined about his wife not wanting to have sex, then all I can say is that your exposure to Japanese men must either be very small or they don’t feel comfortable talking to you about their situation. I hear it all the time from both men and women who find me easy to talk to.
I don’t think it’s fair to say that “where there’s smoke, there’s fire”. The fact that a whole bunch of people think something doesn’t mean that it’s true. And I think trying to find someone to blame for the situation (Japanese women, Western men) is asking for trouble. I think what is productive is simply taking a close look at what’s going on. And what I see is sex taking an unhealthy role in relationships. I think the only healthy role of sex is as a mutual expression of loving emotion, literally making love. Casting it as some kind of impersonal biological impulse is unhealthy. Using it as a weapon in a passive/aggressive guerilla war is also unhealthy. I’m not against hedonistic sex, I just think that you need to recognise that it won’t do anything to help sustain a relationship of any length.
Sex should be something that brings a couple closer together. If that’s not happening, then you’re doing it wrong. And there’s no shame in that, because it’s a big ask, but you have to face the facts and deal with them.
I once read a Japanese man saying something like “the idea of sex without love is widely accepted in Japan”. So maybe the separation of sex and affection has some cultural basis, I have no idea really. But I don’t think us Westerners are all that different. But I think the bottom line is that if a woman feels loved she will want to have sex. And if family/work committments are getting in the way, it’s a shared problem, and not a time for assigning blame.
- James
Hi James,
While you bring up some good points, whether we like it or not sex is a biological imperative otherwise none of us would probably be here today. That being said, I would also say that nurturing and protecting one’s young is also a biological instinct and there is nothing impersonal about that.
“Sex should be something that brings a couple closer together. If that’s not happening, then you’re doing it wrong.”
I think that’s a pretty broad statement, and if love and sex were that simple that there would be very few posts here. Many of the women I talk to do in fact feel loved, but just don’t feel compelled to have sex with the hubby anymore. Perhaps we’re leaving out the “cultural” imperatives that I previously mentioned that can run quite strong amongst the Japanese?
Even when work/family commitments don’t really get in the way, sexless relationships in Japan abound. So much so that the government has become interested in the subject. Without assigning blame, I would think that we could at least discuss the probable causes of this issue? The problem with that is, that when you dig into an issue, there is always someone or something to blame otherwise the issue wouldn’t be an issue. Seems that we’ve become a little too PC in this day and age to effectively address issues and their real root causes.
Percy,
I’m an australian wife of a Japanese husband and i can assure you the statistics are true. It’s not only between Japanese woman and Western men that the marriage is sexless, but also between Japanese man and Western women. I’ve been married nearly 6 years and our sex life has dwindled to now being once every 3 months or about that. It’s mainly my problem and i admit that. About 2 years ago i started to get ill and the reason why we don’t have sex lately is i have a stomach tumor. My husband doesn’t ask me for sex because he thinks it will be too bad for my health. If i want sex i will ask him for it, or tell him how i feel, because apart from that he thinks i’m feeling too ill to do it.
That’s what love and relationships are all about. My husband might be chafing at the bit to have sex but he’s not, he goes with the flow because his love for me is greater than his need to have sex. Sex may be a “biological imperative” but i think compassion for your other half, and the love that you have for them should have more importance.
When we have sex, we don’t have sex, like James said, we make love, and it’s about two bodies becoming one. My husband cares about me, and cares about my needs too.
I can tell you that i have quite a few aussie/american friends who have japanese husbands too and they have no sex life either. Their husbands are all the same as mine in that they care about their wive’s health and feelings before putting the heat on them about having sex, and when they do have sex, maybe once every few months it’s meaningful, not some quickie in the bush.
I think it’s the evolution of every marriage to slow down in the bedroom department. Propably between a Japanese couple’s marriage they have problems because they find it difficult to communicate.
A Japanese woman who recently stayed with us who had been married said she never talked about sex with her husband, and never broached the subject of personal problems such as menstruation because of embarrassment. She said alot of Japanese women are the same and if they are angry they don’t say “i’ve got PMS” because it’s too personal.
The relationship between Japanese men and women is probably way different in the way they communicate about their wants and needs, and rather than “bother” the other person they just shut up about it. Inter-cultural couples however seem to be more open about discussion on all topics, and something considered “personal” or “embarrassing” between Japanese couples is talked about by between husband and wife in inter-cultural relationships.
My two cents.
Hi Percy,
As far as our species is concerned sex is indeed a biological imperative. But to digress for a moment, amongst humans there’s a lot more to it than reproduction, and its function (from a biological perspective) has a lot to do with forming strong pair bonds. Compared to other animals, humans take an extremely long time to grow from babies to adults, and require a huge investment of energy to keep them alive and healthy over this period. That’s why we need strong pair bonds, and building these bonds is one of the reasons why we have sex even when we have absolutely no intention of having a baby*.
As I said, love and sex is not simple, and getting it right is a big ask. I certainly don’t have all the answers. I don’t claim to be particularly successful. But I still believe that is what we should be aiming for.
I also think that looking at the situation in terms of frequency of sex is in conflict with the fact that desire is a dynamic thing, and more so the more experienced and jaded/bored you become. If we’re going to venture into cultural critique I would say that our western culture has an obsession with quantity that I have come to believe is misguided. I think we should reassess our expectations in this light. I’ve been having sex a lot less often than I wanted for a long time now, and I’m starting to think that maybe it’s not as much of a problem as it seemed at first.
Feel free to discuss the cultural imperatives of the Japanese, because I think perhaps you have a deeper insight into them than most of us.
“Something that is to blame” and a “cause” are two completely different things. “Blame” describes a moral judgement and engenders conflict. “Cause” is much more neutral. If you think the difference in semantics is unimportant, consider this. Lawyers assign blame, scientists seek causes. If you get a lawyer and a scientist to investigate a car crash, they’re going to reach completely different conclusions because they are investigating completely different things.
- James
* These ideas are discussed in detail in “The Human Zoo” by Desmond Morris.
A little about me. I am Australian and in my mid 30s. I hold a professional job. Whilst not Tom Cruise I feel I have enough charisma to get either an Australian girl or an Asian girl. I worked in Thailand for 2 years and whilst in Bangkok enjoyed the nightlife scene……before settling down with 1 Thai Freelancer (former sex worker).
On my return to Australia I took my father’s advice and went in pursuit of NON-Freelancer/bargirl Asian ladies. After dating a few Asian ladies in Australia (a 23 year old Taiwanese girl, a 42 year old Chinese businesswoman and a 34 year old Japanese professional) I settled for the Japanese lady. She was a Registered Nurse in Japan (qualifications are recognized in Australia), a Diving instructor in Cairns (on Green Island), service officer for a duty free store specializing in Australian wines (whilst she was studying IT full time) and finally an IT support person working for IBM. She is very middle class – having earned above average money all her life. She holds a Japanese bachelors degree in Nursing and has also completed half an Australian IT degree (that is quite hard stuff to pass!). She had been married before to an older Australian.
I have been married to my Japanese wife for 4 years and now have 2 young children to this Japanese lady. She is a very good mother and currently works as a registered nurse (earning slightly more than me!). She is a loyal loving wife. She is an excellent cook (certainly better than my previous Australian wife) and is very nice to life with. We spend time together each day discussing the day’s events and getting the children ready for bed. We share many hobby’s together – we both have a love for the finer things in life. She is a wonderful wife HOWEVER…….
HOWEVER I miss my previous Thai freelancer wife’s sexual affection!
Let me explain.
Whilst my Japanese wife has never denied me any sexual relations there is still something missing. My wife loves me yet she has the eroticism of a plastic dolphin bought from Seaworld. I said eroticism – my wife is certainly beautiful however she really does not try and be a sexual creature. Personally I have learned a lot from the Bargirls in Thailand! I tell my wife constantly SHE IS A HANDSOME LADY! ….. or words to that effect. I tell her daily that I love her and that I enjoy my time with her. (If the Thai bargirls can use this to great effect…. Why can’t I ?). I constantly hug her and kiss her. I tell her she is my “sexy girl”. I often use the line “where you go sexy girl?”
My wife enjoys my attention however when things turn intimate she is rather cold and mechanical.
There is something missing. Lately when I put my hand down my wife’s top she moves slightly away. I don’t like this prudish behavior. I once advised my wife to be careful when bending over in a certain short dress….. from that point onwards she wore tights with the dress. I told her I was just advising her to be careful…. Not revert to a prude.
I can remember my freelancer wife asking me many times “if I wanted a blo_job?” or even better….. “come here and f_ck my brains out!” I remember one time my boss had a bed delivered to my work. My freelancer wife came up to me and asked if we could “f_ck on the bed first!….. before my boss got a chance to use the bed” If I touched my freelancer intimately she would encourage the actions.
Middle class girls – whether Japanese, Thai or any other variety do not have the skills of a former freelancer. They do not possess the sexual confidence to pull off outrageous stunts! And those stunts are what make life so enjoyable.
Whilst I can see the problems in having a ex-freelancer as a wife there are certainly advantages. It is very similar to owning a car. A Japanese Honda will be reliable, safe and very middle class…… HOWEVER an Alfa Romeo will have passion, excitement and romance albeit until the next $2000- repair! (Yes I have also owned both these makes of cars!)
Yes I love my middle class Japanese wife very much however I can never forget the cute ex-freelancer who wanted to do nasty things on the boss’s mattress! I am just not so sure how I can explain this to my Japanese wife.
Hey man,
Can’t you see your “middle class” Japanese wife is already sick of you? She doesn’t let you touch her anymore. She probably feels like a piece of meat already.
Stop comparing her to what you once had. She’ll never live up to your expectations if you did. That was then, this is now.
You gave up the life with the Thai girl for her so just enjoy what you have. The thai girl probably can’t know what’s real and what’s working, that’s why she’s got sex on the brain.
I enjoy my life with my Japanese wife too. I enjoy the Japanese way. I appreciate her for all she does for me and we spend time the way we both want, not the man driving the relations. You got it all wrong.
AussieBob
not sure if you are a talented lover or not. that might be an issue.
a) please explain the logic of comparing a professional sex worker to one who isn’t? by the way, unless you know what you’re looking a professional can be very good at appearing to enjoy your ‘sexual prowess’. that’s her JOB! hint: it is not the moaning and calling of your manly name, ‘AussieBob’.
b) please explain why ANY woman wants to be compared to any woman for any reason?
i often counsel foreign men in tokyo one on one on how to have successful realtionships by first illuminating the STUPID things they say and do. NOT that the individuals themselves are STUPID, but they do and say stupid things.
be sure to read the numerous posts on this thread on what NOT to say and do before pointing out the logic of your responses to the two questions above (^ _ ^)//
AussieBob
not sure if you are a talented lover or not. that might be an issue.
a) please explain the logic of comparing a professional sex worker to one who isn’t? by the way, unless you know what you’re looking a professional can be very good at appearing to enjoy your ‘sexual prowess’. that’s her JOB! hint: it is not the moaning and calling of your manly name, ‘AussieBob’.
b) please explain why ANY woman wants to be compared to any woman for any reason?
i often counsel foreign men(some from this site) in tokyo one on one on how to have successful realtionships by first illuminating the STUPID things they say and do. NOT that the individuals themselves are STUPID, but they do and say stupid things.
be sure to read the numerous posts on this thread on what NOT to say and do before pointing out the logic of your responses to the two questions above (^ _ ^)//
to the admin: wordpress was not functioning properly, please delete 308
Hello,
Yes – I regard myself as a good lover…. always happy to give! Always happy to make her happy…. I have read many books and I am not affraid to go down….. THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE!
The technique is not the issue…. the issue is the Japanese mind set!
Regarding my ex-freelancer wife (former prostitute)….. PLEASE all understand that she is always a person still – A LITTLE RESPECT PLEASE. I always gave her the respect she deserved. She was forced into prostitution to support twin girls after the father/husband ran off with another lady.
Please refrain from all the disrespect I see generated here because I dared to tell the truth. Yes she was a prostitute ….. but once we were together she stopped all that. We lived together as husband and wife.
The ex-freelancer has sucessfully married another foreigner and they have recently had a child together in a western country. I stay in touch as friends. I basically ran out of money in a bad business….. and I had to leave urgently to repay debts. Nothing this girl ever did. She was the most honest person I ever met.
HOW HONEST WAS THIS GIRL? Well when things improved (and she was in this new relationship) I sent her AU$4,000- to buy back the 1ct Diamond ring I bought her – she was in a new relationship and did not want the ring but wanted the money for her children. I wired the money to her bank account and she fedex the ring. I was a bit of a small time diamond dealer – diamond was a 1.01ct VS2 I Round Brilliant cut stone in a platinum setting….. for all you diamond experts. I originally paid about AU$3500 for the stone but paid her a bit more as prices were higher at the time.
As for my relationship with my Japanese wife… personally I would never stay in a relationship without a good sex life. Sure we can skip a night if she is tired….. but no more than 2 nights skipped in a row thank you. When my wife told me once she was very tired I told her ok….. but you had better make time for our relationship tomorrow as I am starting to really hate you.
Life is too short for 2 things…..
1) Life is too short to wear a cheap watch (me – Breitling Navi, Omega Speedie, Rolex Datejust, Cartier Santos – her 2 x 18K cartier, Rolex President with diamonds, Rolex Datejust).
2) Life is too short to not get sex at least every 2 days.
You’re a PIG Aussie bob and bring shame to all us Aussies.
Bob,
It’s fine to vent, so please don’t feel that you need to censor yourself, just continue as is. Just to recap, you miss the passion of the woman you knew before. Now you’re married to a person with different values/behavior. You’ve told us that you consider your wife’s behavior prudish (compared to what you knew before). You’ve also said that you feel she is mechanical when it comes to intimacy.
I can’t help but notice you said you expect to have sex regularly, with no more than two days between. Do you think that regularity may be contributing to the mechanical feeling of it? What might happen if you did something spontaneous? Given your collection of watches, it sounds like you can afford a romantic vacation. What if you didn’t have sex for a while, a week or more, and then took a kind of dream romantic vacation? Aside from adding more variety to the way things are, you might consider couple’s counseling as a way to communicate in a non-combative way.
Again, I know it feels good to vent, and there’s nothing wrong with that. But it seems to me that by venting, it’s a way of saying that you’re not satisfied with the way things are. These problems seem entirely fixable. In part by good communication, and in part by compromise. I don’t think the psychology of dominance has nearly as much worth or benefit once you are married though. You might start by finding out more about what turns her on. It sounds like her being turned on would go a long way toward turning you on. Win-win.
Thank you Adam for your words of support.
Kelly – didn’t your Japanese mother tell you to say nothing if you are going to say bad things.
I am a very generous man…. however my time, generosity comes at a cost. That cost is affection and intimacy.
I will not put up with a sex-less marriage. END OF STORY.
We have never had more than 3 days without sex….. even when the children were born (the horrible 6 weeks window – thank you I only needed to wait 3 weeks in each case) I received oral every night once home.
The reason I am on this site is to learn how to stop my wife slipping into the evil wench many of you have already! I want to learn how to stop it without replacing the wife. (I actually like this Japanese lady… just wanting to end her prudish way with me).
If necessary I will divorce and remarry – this time a Chinese or Thai. This is my 3rd marriage so far.
I am not afraid of divorcing…. just like buying a car. The new model always seems better than the model you are replacing.
I am generous to a tee. Many big nice diamonds, 30+ pieces of Louis Vuitton (see I am accepting of her culture) and many big ticket watches.
[IMG]http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq226/yuki69girl/Louis%20Vuitton/ENTIRE%202009/IMG_0004.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq226/yuki69girl/BOXSELECTION.jpg[/IMG]
SORRY if I offend…. But I am honest to a tee….
Why post on a forum is you are not 100% honest?
Please don’t be offended by my “self-made” style or brashness…..
I am a softie at heart. I am also a realist.
Please don’t be upset when I tell the truth.
Hello Adam,
Thank you for your kind posting… such a nice posting compared to Kelly (Kelly sounds like my 1st wife!)
To answer your questions:-
“What if you didn’t have sex for a while, a week or more…..” I WILL GO MAD. LIFE IS TOO SHORT NOT TO HAVE FUN. WHAT IF I DONATED ALL MY MONEY TO THE MORMANS? WHAT IF I GREW VEGETABLES IN THE BACKYARD? THERE ARE THINGS IN LIFE ONE DOES NOT EVER WANT TO DO!
“You might consider couple’s counseling…” IF IT GOT TO THAT STAGE I THINK DIVORCE WOULD BE SIMPLER. I AM NOT INTERESTED IN ANYTHING BESIDES GETTING WHAT I EXPECT. I HATE COUNSELLORS, LAWYERS AND AUSSIE LADIES – BUT NOT NECESSARILY IN THAT ORDER!
AussieBob
“the issue is the Japanese mind set!” as a result of culture, not likely to change. she is an adult. ‘LOVE’ often changes the mindset, that ingredient doesn’t appear to be here. by the sound of it, you have money, money does not buy LOVE.
sounds like your wife serviced you, difficult to discern whether she WANTED to please you or sex was just another task on the to-do-list and she ‘did you’.
spend your money on a romantic getaway. maybe she’ll be convinced to start servicing you again.
divorce is a possibility, if in japan, be prepared to lose the kids.
I totally agree with Mitaboy.
Sorry if my comments sound nasty but i don’t know why you ask about your problems and how to fix it. It’s obvious that she’s not going to change. And if you say, trading in women for another, like buying a new car, it seems like you’re objectifying women. They are just objects for your sexual service, nothing more. That’s what it seems like to me, from a female perspective.
Unfortunately, she has let herself be bought with louis vuitton handbags. It’s prostitution in a way. You reward her sexual acts with gifts, it’s just like paying for services rendered.
That’s the way I see it.
AusieB, you’re a real job aren’t you. How can you get on a public forum like this, and tell us how you want to replace your wife because she doesn’t wet your end like your previous whore bag Thai girl. Why don’t you just have yourself a daughter, and when she reaches age 5 have her suck you off when your wife isn’t erotic enough. Then you can orphan her out when she gets sick of your cum and bites your dick off. You really are a frikin nutcase, I can’t believe I am spending my time reading your shit. Go to Thailand and catch some VDs (at least you’ll “have fun”!). Fruitcake…
There are so many comments about gaijin men and their sexless lives with Japanese women.
What about us gaijin women here in Japan?? Do you think it is any better with Japanese men?
Sex goes right out of the window after a few years in a relation, once they know you are there forever with them. They don’t make any efforts to change it, sweep it under the rug and continue with the ‘gaman’ concept for the rest of their lives, just like their parents did!
I also want to add that having been in 2 long term relations with Jap. men, they never ever handed their paycheck to a gaijin wife or long term partner. I ‘ve always have had to work and pay my share and often his share of life too…
So here we are we want sex we don’t get any on top of the guy doesn’t give us any money or spoil us. It isn’t like we foreign women ever ask the guy for a $5000 Louis Vitton bag or crap like that!
Girls if you wanna have fun, don’t ever choose a Japanese man.
Cheeze
AusieB, you’re a real job aren’t you. How can you get on a public forum like this, and tell us how you want to replace your wife because she doesn’t wet your end like your previous whore bag Thai girl. Why don’t you just have yourself a daughter, and when she reaches age 5 have her suck you off when your wife isn’t erotic enough. Then you can orphan her out when she gets sick of your cum and bites your dick off. You really are a frikin nutcase, I can’t believe I am spending my time reading your shit. Go to Thailand and catch some VDs (at least you’ll “have fun”!). Fruitcake…
HOW ABOUT A BIT OR RESPECT FOR THE THAI GIRL…. WHY DO YOU CALL HER A “WHORE BAG” ? SHE IS A PERSON PLEASE….. WHAT IS WITH THE TERRIBLE INCEST COMMENT….. THIS IS THE WORST POSTING I HAVE EVER SCENE.
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq226/yuki69girl/BOXSELECTION.jpg
I really do not like the abuse from the forum…. I entered this forum as a friend and I seem to have angered some people.
I thought the issue was sexless-marriage?
AussieBob
if you wanted to blow of steam, GREAT!!! you did it! mybe you feel better?
if you were looking for possible solutions
then read the tone of your your ““self-made” style or brashness…..” imagine if that tone would be conducive to receiving constructive feedback in a meeting of any sort then evaluate the responses you got here.
if you believe nothing of value was penned here, just divorce her and stop complaining.
“This is my 3rd marriage so far. I am not afraid of divorcing…. just like buying a car. The new model always seems better than the model you are replacing.”
’3rd marriage’ things that make you go hhhmmmmmm, would you dare think, “I COULD BE THE PROBLEM?!”
‘The new model seems better…’ perhaps your powers of perception need development?
I WOULD LIKE TO RESPOND TO THE FOLLOWING POSTING BELOW….
I do not take any notice of her bullshit moves…. I do not get discouraged by her moves.
I am about to have it out with her on this issue…. I will report back the results.
I will not put up with a non-providing wife.
A japanese proverb – A honorable salaryman without a job is a bum.
I uphold my end of the above bargain…. I expect service in return.
eg. you buy an SL Mercedes…. you expect a certain level of performance. If you don’t get that performance there are heaps of other cars in that market….. ie Porsche 911, Jaguar XK8, Ashton Martin….. need I go on?
She gets Mercedes Benz type gifts and I expect Mercedes Benz service.
************************************************
Shuji Ono
Hey man,
Can’t you see your “middle class” Japanese wife is already sick of you? She doesn’t let you touch her anymore. She probably feels like a piece of meat already.
Hi Bob,
Well, good luck with it. I do think you might be in conflict in a one way though. When you talk about the person who actually was a prostitute, you’ve pointed out that she too is a person as should be treated as such. But when you talk about your current wife, you compared her to models of cars and talked about a kind of quid-pro-quo of sex in exchange for a lavish lifestyle. If you hold both value systems, which seem to be opposites, it creates authenticity problems. You might find more peace of mind if you pick one way of thinking or the other — I’m not going to suggest which — and stick with it.
As for getting a mix of positive and negative feedback, it goes with the territory.
I think you’ll find happiness, but it may not be exactly what you have in mind.
Adam
For goodness’ sake, drop the car analogy already. Comparing women to objects is a sure-fire way to get yourself in a mess. If you are really serious about avoiding a sexless marriage, you’ll need to start thinking of her as a person with needs and feelings.
AussieBob, maybe your wife is like you? Did you ever think that she only objectifies you as a “money making machine”? Apart from that, you mean nothing to her, and she certainly doesn’t think that the exchange for you providing her with money means that she has to act like she actually likes having sex with you. I too am Japanese (female). But unfortunately my husband doesn’t provide me with Mercedes Benz. But, even if he did, it wouldn’t mean I need to change who I am, and act like I enjoy making him feel pleasure.
You said she still has sex with you, she is just not erochik enough for you. I can tell you one secret. Many girls I know only act erochik with their boyfriends at the start, because it is a novelty. But once they don’t like sex anymore, most girls just stop having it, and they don’t care about the guy. Most girls (except your Thai “friend” it seems) wont make their life into a constant act of looking like they get excited while pleasing your penis. You should feel lucky she still opens her legs for you anymore (I wouldn’t!). I think you are going to change girls for your whole life – just like some people find it important to change cars! But no car these type of people have ever makes them happy.
Mayu
you write well. would you consider being a guest writer for me?
if yes, it is okay for the administrator to give you my email address
Hello All,
My Japanese wife is no prostitute. I did not ever buy her. It certainly would have been cheaper to hire somebody for that! I can assure you about that…..
I bought her beautiful things because I love her. The fact the intimacy is below par now is part of the course. I am working at discussing the issue with her and seeking an improvement or replacement.
I am an incredibly loving, generous man….. I have bought her things that 99% of the population could never own…..
Please take a look at some of her (and our) beautiful stuff.
PLEASE TAKE A LOOK BEFORE CASTING ME AS THE EVIL OGOR!!!
HER WATCHES:-
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq226/yuki69girl/Rolex%20DateJust/PRESIDENT/IMG_0007.jpg
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq226/yuki69girl/Rolex%20DateJust/Ladies%20DateJust/IMG_0009.jpg
LAST NIGHT WAS FANTASTIC!
Probably best not to shoot from the hip (like I do here)….. take it easy – be firm on insisting but pleasant and nice on the surface!!! (Beat the japs at their own game!)
Had a fantastic session last night….. I provided service to her firstly and then had my fun.
I am going to resume buying expensive baubles for her!!!
Jap girls can be the greatest…..
LESSON TO ALL YOU GUYS – Take what is yours! Be that strong demanding Jap guy, insist on service….. but of course don’t be stingy…. Chanel 5 or other needs to be given to oil the wheels!
I spend big – but demand big! NOTHING IS FREE IN THIS WORLD!
MORE TOYS I HAVE BOUGHT HER….
South Sea Pearl Necklace (about the price of a car)
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq226/yuki69girl/Jewellery%20Collection/pearlsm.jpg
South Sea Pearl earrings – 13.3mm size pearls! AMAZING
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq226/yuki69girl/Jewellery%20Collection/100_0596.jpg
Hello,
I am in a loving relationship with my Japanese wife… we have 2 kids together and I have provided her with Luxury Goods which are so important to Japanese people.
I have a Japanese magazine called “BRAND MAGAZINE” in it features “HAPPY TIMES WITH ROLEX”
…does that mean you will be sad with a Seiko? Or miserable with a Citizen watch?
YOU SEE – I AM NOT THE EVIL MATERIALIST GUY….. THE JAPS INVENTED THAT GENRE YEARS AGO!
I just feed my wife’s desire for luxury with JAW DROPPING stuff……
And for all you people….. I am MIDDLE CLASS on MIDDLE CLASS MONEY! I bought most of my stuff USED – 2nd hand….
I spent years learning about LUXURY GOODS!
I DO NOT SELL THINGS THESE DAYS…. I JUST WANT MY JAP WIFE TO BE HAPPY (and provide the service I should be entitled to).
DIAMONDS I HAVE BOUGHT HER
Diamonds… where do I start?
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq226/yuki69girl/Jewellery%20Collection/Diamonds/100_1442.jpg
Edwardian Bracelet (over $10K)
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq226/yuki69girl/Jewellery%20Collection/100_0593.jpg
This is the way to get great bedroom experience when travelling….
ALL LOUIS VUITTON LUGGAGE…..
Only probably is that the luggage can not be used on a plane….. working class airport staff like destroying LV!
THIS IS HOW WE TRAVEL….
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq226/yuki69girl/Louis%20Vuitton/resort/101_1543.jpg
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq226/yuki69girl/Louis%20Vuitton/resort/101_1566.jpg
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq226/yuki69girl/Louis%20Vuitton/resort/101_1553.jpg
I think I was being a bit over-sensitive…. SINCERE APOLOGIES.
The important thing is to not put up with these Japanese Wenches lack of service.
Japanese women are some of the most attractive, beautiful ladies in the world…. it is a sin not to have regular sexual relations with such a cut, gorgeous lady.
It kind of reminds me of the guy’s who keep a perfect Ferrari in the garage….. 20 years old but with 1500kms on the clock….. such a waste…. so many good experiences missed! Or for some other guy to enjoy when he leaves/dies/gets divorced.
Japanese ladies like a strong guy…. especially 1 with a lust for luxury goods.
I am never stingy with my wife….. when I get a bonus from work…. she gets a present….. when I get an inheritance…. she gets some goodies! LIFE CAN BE GOOD!
Latest present because I just got a $10K bonus from work….
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq226/yuki69girl/Louis%20Vuitton/Alma/100_1529.jpg
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq226/yuki69girl/Louis%20Vuitton/Alma/100_1540.jpg
Couples whose sex life gradually drop off:
Many of the factors you have mentioned above are very valid, but there’s one more that nobody has mentioned yet.
The effects of the dopamine high during seduction/sex and the crash later when you come off it after climax. This is explored in depth in reuniting.info (I have no affiliation).
I think the Japanese just take a different approach to dealing with the affects of this.
Hello Relaxandflow,
I would like to reply to your interesting email.
I explained to my wife that the only DOPE in the equation is her if she withdrawals service…..
MY SEX DRIVE IS THE SAME AS IT HAS EVER BEEN! AND I EXPECT TO BE SERVICED WHEN I AM IN A MARRIAGE.
Thank god I am firm in expecting good service……
*********************************************************
relaxandflow
Couples whose sex life gradually drop off:
Many of the factors you have mentioned above are very valid, but there’s one more that nobody has mentioned yet.
The effects of the dopamine high during seduction/sex and the crash later when you come off it after climax. This is explored in depth in reuniting.info (I have no affiliation).
I think the Japanese just take a different approach to dealing with the affects of this.
as ‘arsenio hall’ used too say, “things that make you go hhhmmm…”
dopamine management…
buy the japanese wife expensive gifts – dopamine management
buy the prostitute(call girll) expensive gifts(or heck! just give money) – payment for services rendered
You must be sick in the head if you find it necessary to photograph and post pictures on the net of your wifes accessories bought by you.
There’s no way in hell that I would stay with a control freak like you.
My Japanese husband buys me stuff, expensive stuff, designer bags, but only because I ask him for them, and only because he earns a really good wage, higher than most people living in Australia.
He doesn’t “buy” me either. We have sex as a love act, not a bought and paid for act.
You seem to forget that sex is about LOVE not money.
If you wanted to own a pet, why don’t you get a kitten.
Women are not toys for your pleasure. You are a sick man. You need some help, seriously.
Does your wife know you photograph her possessions?
I WISH TO RESPOND TO KELLY.
Hello Kelly,
I have photograph the items for 3 reasons. 1) My insurance covers requires it and 2) I am a member on many other forums – Rolex Watches, Louis Vuitton, Jewellery and Diamond forums. I really love the items photographed and wish to share the joy of beautiful with people. 3) Photography is a hobby of mine…. did you like the photos?
I just bought my wife a bunch of brand name perfume and body wash. I want her to stay loving and not turn into an evil Japanese sex-less wench. It is an investment in my relationship with her. Money well spent.
Kelly – do you hold out sex with your husband? How long do you go between sessions?
******************************************
Kelly
You must be sick in the head if you find it necessary to photograph and post pictures on the net of your wifes accessories bought by you.
There’s no way in hell that I would stay with a control freak like you.
My Japanese husband buys me stuff, expensive stuff, designer bags, but only because I ask him for them, and only because he earns a really good wage, higher than most people living in Australia.
He doesn’t “buy” me either. We have sex as a love act, not a bought and paid for act.
You seem to forget that sex is about LOVE not money.
If you wanted to own a pet, why don’t you get a kitten.
Women are not toys for your pleasure. You are a sick man. You need some help, seriously.
Does your wife know you photograph her possessions?
Aussie Bob! Hahahahahaha. What a dick.
REPLY TO MARV….
At least I am getting some…. WHAT ARE YOU GETTING????
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq226/yuki69girl/Clocks/MVC-006F.jpg
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq226/yuki69girl/Clocks/per1.jpg
I would like to respond to the following posting…..
As General McArthur once said….”Managing the Japanese is like dealing with 13 year old kids….”
Remember that and all will be understood.
************************************
as ‘arsenio hall’ used too say, “things that make you go hhhmmm…”
dopamine management…
buy the japanese wife expensive gifts – dopamine management
buy the prostitute(call girll) expensive gifts(or heck! just give money) – payment for services rendered
Mayu,
Thanks for your insight. It’s great to hear the other side of the argument. Do you mind if I ask you why your friends stop enjoying it? Is it because they were unsatisfied with their husbands? Do you think it was because their husbands weren’t good lovers? Do you think they would have continued if they enjoyed it more? I guess I’m asking you – why didn’t they enjoy it?
Mitaboy,
Stop trying to take it off line. Leave the interaction on line so we can all benefit from it.
Hills-zoku
“Mitaboy,
Stop trying to take it off line. Leave the interaction on line so we can all benefit from it.”
sorry, don’t know what you mean
Mitaboy, I mean comments 150, 216, 258 etc
oops. meant 358 (not 258)
hills-zoku,
please don’t misunderstand, not trying to take offline, i do not profit from it at all.
some people would prefer not to read comments to their issues that amount to target practice. those offers were(are) made and accepted by those in that category
A question regarding Japanese men for Mayu or any other Japanese woman on this list. Does your husband/boyfriend do anything to excite you or give you pleasure? Is there more to sex than him putting his penis inside you?
im 25 from the philippines married my husband an we live each other 2 years ago, i am very sexless women who always begging my husband to have sex with me, he always stress at work and many excuses when i want it, we have sex for once in a two-months, im stress how can i change it and i feel hurt when he is watching porn in internet lead him to masturbate. im so sad and always crying.. ilove my husband and i want him to the rest of my life and i know that he loves me too, im young not ugly and good body but i dont undestand whythis happen,
pls tell me what can i do?
i talk to him about this manner but nothing is changes
im still hoping he may change.
jen
somebody can advice me of this matter, i talk to my japanese husband lastday i tell him what my side and im feeling when he is doin this, but he doesnt want to listen what im talking about, he said that is normal to guy to masturbate and i know that, but i really dont understand that we live together and always hoping that he do the first move.. im so sad and desperate.. pls aomebody will help me, i need some advice
jen
jen
“always hoping that he do the first move.. im so sad and desperate.”
the solution may be EASY! first, stop hoping! waste of energy. second, you are not a japanese woman, make ‘the first move’ yourself.
thank you mitaboy
i always do the first move but he always reject my invitation, he always sayin that he is not in condition (tired) but one day i go to my friend house and im back he sleeping and when i see the pc theres a lot of porn video he watched and the evidence(tissue) that he do masturbation to himself,
i dont understand why he need to that way supposedly im here and very open what he want,
and last night i talked to him about this he doesnt want to listen to me and insted he said this a normal to a guy and he always do this before we met, and he told me that its not normal to a married girl to ask about sex and also he said that girls do also masturbation which i really hate…
im tired thinkin of we have a diifrent culture, religion…
im young and i want to enjoy it with my only love,
and one thing he very sweet person, kind everthing and i know that he loves me
but only one thing he always not give me a (sex)
pls anwer me mitaboy
thanks, godbless
jen
“i know that he loves me but only one thing he always not give me a (sex)”
IF he loves you… sex should not be an issue.
1) how long have you been married?
2) how frequent has sex ever been?
3) do you work?
4) do you have children?
5) what kind of work does he do?
6) how many days a week does he work?
7) when does he get home?
9) how often does he indulge in his hobbies?
10) how often is he out with friends?
please answer all 10 questions
jen,
sorry
the happy face is a mistype
1) we married for almost 2 years
2) once in a month
3) presently im not working.. last december i decide to resign to have quality time for him.
4) dont have yet
5) he work in car company (mechanical enginneer)
6) 5 to 6 times a week
7) he always at time going home,
his hobbies is pc, psp, manga (kind of anime book)
9) almost everyday
10) never, he dont want to out with his friends, actually he has only one friend
jen,
once a month is low even for japanese couples
1) in your other relationships, how often did you have sex?
2) why did you get married?
please DO NOT say because i loved him. give me details.
3) what time does he come home everyday 5:00pm? 10:00pm?
please answer all questions
1) im my other relationship atleast once or twice a week
2) we met in a club then he starting courting me for 3 months we go out in nice place, he always want me suprise (place, gift etc.) then he prupose on me to become his wife and i say yes, i enjoy the first 4 months of our relationship we are active(once a week) but it changes, i dont know why? we dont have big quarrel but sometime we argue
i alway cook for him and preparing his hot-bath evrything in the house that wife do.
to define him very caring,sweet until now but one thing i dont really understand is about sex, he dont want to talk about it, he say we have the right time and the right mood, but he always dont have it,
he always on time around 7:00-7:15 pm
jen
1) had you had sex with your husband BEFORE you got married?
2) if yes, how often?
3) if yes, where? his home or a love hotel?
4) was he your first japanese lover?
5) if no, how frequently did you have sex with previous japanese lovers?
6) VERY IMPORTANT: was sex usually at the lovers home or hotel?
please study all the answers you’ve given
1) yes
2)before once or twice aweek
3) home and love hotel too..
4)no, hes my second time japanese bf
5)one to twice a week
6) both of it my bf homes and sometimes in a hotel
jen,
my guess is that you did not study the nature of japanese dating and sexuality BEFORE you got married.
1) did you know that statistically japanese people are ranked among the lowest in annual sexual contact? somewhere around 50 times a year and it drops SHARPLY after marriage.
japanese women often say that men marry mothers and maids. you are not a mother yet…
2) if you knew the above why did you think your married life would be different?
do you mean its normal here , and i have to admit it?
(i really thank you for the advice it would help alot for me)
jen
in all of my relationships with japanese women i tell them of my sexual expectations within the first two to three weeks of our relationship. my sexual expectation is three – four times a week. IF it falls below that and i decide to leave i’ve already told them in advance. it is not a surprise. quite frankly, most japanese women are hard pressed to even enjoy sexual contact at even two to three times a week. this is in part due to performance issues with japanese men.
also keep in mind that many japanese people ascribe more importantance to their employer than their home or dating life.
i’m writing an article on sexual expectations and may post a link if the administrator doesn’t mind.
now that i understand living life here is different, yes i dont need to wait( just wasting my time)
im planning to work next month it think it would help me because it make me bussy.
i love my husband so i have to respect him and his decision
i hope that i can read your article about sexual expectation,
and i really thank you for the advice
godbless,
jen
What makes mitaboy the xpert. Hes not even married to a Japanese.
It’s wrong what he says. There are alot of Japanese married couples enjoying sex frequently.
I’ve been married for 10 years to my aussie hubs and we have sex many times per week because we love each other and both enjoy it. plus he’s slow and makes pleasuring me his interest. We bothf ind new ways to pleasure each other. Sometimes i get a book from the library that tells me how to different ways of pleasuring. It’s good fun!
We also sometimes to strip shows together or watch porn. I am happy with him. He respects me and I respect him and we love ach other deeply.
Some of my friends are married to aussie guys and they have the same relationship as i do with mine. Mitaboy is stereotyping us into a category, he doesnt know what he’s talking about.
Mariko
There is no need to ACCEPT what I say.
no one has to.
one may do government or private sector research to verify what has been stated. i’ve not only done research but have had researchers speak directly to me.
it is true that research can be skewed. however, there is overwhelming ‘evidence’ that is supposedly based on acceptable research practices that would confirm the statements made.
you may be one of many,” We also sometimes to strip shows together or watch porn” congratulations! but the sample of which you may represent is not the majority of the ‘japanese people who-have-sex’ population. (^_^)//
check it for yourself.
AUSSIEBOB COMES CLEAN!!!!
Hello All,
Just having a bit of a laugh with you guys. I borrowed some picks from another forum on collectables and joined it up with my Japanese wife.
Trying to get a few laughs…
But you guys seem to be too interested in criticising somebody’s hobby because you can’t afford this type of stuff.
Personally I am not of the view a relationship can be bought. I am who I am.
Mind you…. my Japanese wife does give me the shits at times…..
Why am I not surprised?
This has been an insightful discussion at its best. At least when people aren’t trying to stir things up.
Things Have Improved Greatly…
——————————————————————————–
Hello,
Since I had a talk to my wife – AFTER MUCH ADVICE FROM THIS SUPPERB FORUM – …. things have improved.
I did not mention the word “SEX” once…. what I said was “you don’t seem to have any time to kiss and cuddle me anymore…” “you act like a prude when I try and touch you…..”
I told her “I am not going to put up with this lack of contact for more than 6 months…. 6-12 months and I am divorced from you if things continue like this….”
I also told her “I am really pissed off how you always have time to clean up crap around the house but you do not have time to spend with me….what is more important…. you can giving me signals that I should really be looking for a nice chinese mistress (the japanese hate the chinese!)”
I LAID DOWN THE LAW …. very nicely…. I did not mention former Thai hookers/freelancers/prostitutes etc…… I just addressed the issue and asked for what is mine.
I also told my wife “now you can see why so many Japanese men marry filipas (philopinos) and thais…. Japanese girls are as loving as a plastic dolphin bought from Seaworld….. I hope you understand why they do this….”
SEX IS BACK TO NORMAL…. Hugging, kissing and fondling have all gone through the roof. I have had sex 5 of the last 7 days…….
LESSON TO MEMBERS HERE – DEMAND WHAT IS YOURS, DO NOT PUT UP WITH A LACK OF SERVICE, BE POLITE BUT FIRM IN YOUR NEGOTIATIONS, NEVER BE AFFRAID TO WALK IF SHE WONT DO THE DEAL!
DO NOT ASK FOR SEX….. JUST START A SESSION BY REMOVING HER CLOTHES AND KISSING HER!!!!
I don’t believe a word you say, after you posted the stuff below above.
[quote]AUSSIEBOB COMES CLEAN!!!!
Hello All,
Just having a bit of a laugh with you guys. I borrowed some picks from another forum on collectables and joined it up with my Japanese wife.
Trying to get a few laughs…
But you guys seem to be too interested in criticising somebody’s hobby because you can’t afford this type of stuff.
Personally I am not of the view a relationship can be bought. I am who I am.
Mind you…. my Japanese wife does give me the shits at times…..[/quote]
Pitting races against each other is a game for you isn’t it? You just want to get her back up so she gives into your sex games. She’s probably better without you.
Advice to AussieBob: Go read “The Boy Who Cried Wolf”. And then stop posting here, you have worn out your welcome.
James – why don’t you just F*CK to the rock you crawled out of?
Nobody gave you the authority to speak for this mass of sex-starve gaijen!
I married 2 years back after in love for almost 2 years. We both are in our late 20s. We had understanding to have sex only after marriage. Before and after marriage till date we never had sex and many times I talked to her about how I feel going through without sex. We love each other very much and we both don’t have any other problems besides this one. Every time she just avoids it or a kind of excuse is made. She is busy with her works which I understand. I tried my best but she never understood and refused to take counseling. I don’t understand what is good to do. Even if there’s cultural differences this should not happen I think. Could anyone give some ideas so that I can save my marriage.
Hello Coolguy,
I can really sympahise with you… HOWEVER …. it is like buying a car without a test drive first….
Once you have signed the paperwork…. you are kind of stuck – without alot of pain and suffering.
See – you would only know after a test drive if you want a larger engine….. leather seats and/or a sunroof.
Unfortunately you have bought and now it is much more expensive to fit upgrades than originally when choosing…..
OK – HOW DO WE FIX THIS MESS?
1) COMMUNICATION – You need to talk to your partner about this problem. If she evades the topic you need to SAY ….. “Darling, I want to talk to you about a serious problem. If you do not listen to me we will be divorced within 6 months. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?….. I want to talk about our sex life and I want you to know I am very pissed off with the current situation. NOW – I WANT TO DISCUSS THIS SERIOUSLY WITH YOU.” Be firm, polite but strong. The Japanese love a strong guy (never never use violence however). You need to tell her what is wrong.
2) Create a YOUTUBE clip telling her what is wrong…… Don’t use your photo or mention surnames etc…. but put together a clip and tell her to watch it. Be polite and nice…. BUT – GET YOUR POINT ACCROSS.
3) Buy some good books on “lovemaking” …. not porn or crap like that….. BUT TRUE LOVEMAKING…. A classsic is “THE JOY OF SEX” …… get her to read it…..
4) Schedule time for each other…. date each other…. schedule time for TALKING, LAUGHNG, PLAYING and F_CKING!
5) If nothing works…. LEAVE! You can’t stay with a “dead fish” forever……
Man, Aussie Bob I think your a fuckin dick head.
But that’s only my opinion, I’m sure the rest of the forum thinks you’re a really nice guy.
Also I think you have a underlying anger issue.
You abused the last guy that told you that your not wanted.
I agree with him, however I think everyone else is too normal and to polite to say so.
The Japanese way is to suffer fools, ha ha but I don’t even believe that you have a Japanese wife, and if you did I really pity her.
I think your a lonely person with hate in your heart and you’re only here to try and relieve your own anguish in your own twisted way.
My advice for you – (although we already the kind of reply we’ll get from you) is to give a little love not criticism or hate.
Prove me right bob. We’d all love to hear it.
Aussie
Thanks for advice. Would see what the near future turns to.
Hi Mitaboy and all,
I am glad that I have come across this lively discussion.
Let me introduce myself and get to the point, I am just start to date a japanese girl and we had sex for the first time 2 days ago, but it seems that she is not quite satisfied with my performance, she told me that I haven’t do a good job in foreplay or warming up before getting into real penetration, which cause in I cum first before she did. I have to admit, honestly I am still an amateur in sex because before I had sex with my japanese girlfriend, I only had sex twice with my american girlfriend and yet she didn’t say anything, maybe because she was a quiet and submissive type of person.
So the point is, she told me to improve my foreplay skills so the next time we meet and have sex again, she hope I can satisfy her enough and make her cum, preferably many times.
I have no idea of doing this, so, mitaboy, after I read your posts, especially #49, point 2, above, I think you could help me because you seems to have some experience in foreplay and how to make your women cum before you so she could get satisfied and wants it more in the future. Please guide me and tell me how….I am so depressed and stressed here because we will meet again on the weekend and I have to be able to satisfy her through foreplay first but I have no idea how to make her cum.
Please enlighten me up, help me. As maybe the advice may sounds explicit or raunchy in this public discussion board, can you please e-mail me privately to apadulu@yahoo.com
I would really appreciate it a lot!! Thank you for your help in advance!
aaron
interesting. displaying your email address for ALL to see leads me to believe your post is not genuine. a very careful search of forums that deal specifically with japanese women will lead you to me. gOOd luck
mitaboy,
I am sorry, I want to assure and clarify one thing that I am real, I am just desperately need help quickly and I don’t know what should I do because I even didn’t see that there is any option to send you a personal message! pardon me for my silliness. I am new in this forum, I don’t know how it works….I found it when browsing around, and I really like this forum because when I read all the responses, I found that I am not the only one who had a sex problem. This thing made me stressed and desperate as I also have my own pride as a guy, I hope you understand what I meant.
So please…..I ask for your kind help. How can I contact you by personal message, I am green in here and don’t know anything, and I am not a tech-savvy person. Tell me what should I do so I could be able to consult with you privately. Thank you very much for your kind help in advance.
aaron
you should have contacted the administrator. it puzzles me why anyone would post their email address on a PUBLIC forum for spammers to retrieve.
somtimes i am very caustic…
THAT WAS unbelievably STUPID!
stupidity is a disease.
i run from it.
desperation and stupidity a bad and unbelievable conbination in 2009
you are kiiling me with your poor attempts at humor. i don’t think you’d survive in stand-up
best of luck you
Mitaboy,
Sorry I didn’t know that. I am not stupid, I just need guidance and enlightenment. Please help me, I believe you are a kind guy.
Administrator, can you please tell him my new e-mail address here? or if you could tell mitaboy’s e-mail address so I can consult him.
Thank you very much again.
aaron
ha hah ha
“I just need guidance and enlightenment. Please help me, I believe you are a kind guy.”
now you sound like young, droopy eyed, religious cult, knife behind the back informant.
now that is funny!
read the post again, ‘should have’, past tense.
NO! you may not contact me through the administrator.
i’ll not respond to any more posts
mitaboy,
I don’t understand why you are being so negative and mean to me, I just want to ask for your help, that’s all. And I already apologize because I made a stupid mistake by displaying my e-mail address in public due to my lack of knowledge of the rules in this forum. Fortunately the e-mail address that I put on here before is not my man/primary e-mail address, because I am afraid of spam too so I thought I post my substitute e-mail address in here first and then tell you my primary e-mail address after that on the e-mail. Now that I change my e-mail address to primary one when I was writing this, can you please kindly help me? I am really need your help before I meet my girlfriend on this weekend.
Please help me, and I would appreciate that. Thank you so much.
Aaron
Hi Aaron,
I’m not sure this is the right place or people to be asking about help with your sex life, but for what it’s worth, I’ll give you my 2-yen.
Focus on pleasing her, rather than satisfying yourself. If your relationship is strong enough, you should be able to ask her what feels good (within reason – don’t interrogate her!) and work from there. If you make her enjoyment your priority and move slowly (somewhere around 30 minutes-1 hour, as a really, really rough estimate), I think things will go a little better than last time. Try light touching and kissing on her neck and ears before moving downstairs, and when you do, tease her and try ‘pulling away’ to build up the tension.
Most importantly, just relax and enjoy yourselves. Worrying about your performance is a sure-fire way to spoil the mood. I’m not expert though – best to look elsewhere for the answers you are seeking.
Thank you Mike, you are far more nicer than the so-called nice person mitaboy! I am happy finally there is someone kind enough in this community that willing to help me out with my sexual problem, while mitaboy just fired me with the feeling of suspicion and hatred, that’s the lowest form of human feeling to treat others.
Mike, I really appreciate your advice, I really learn something that I shouldn’t worry about my performance and just relax and enjoy myself….but I think my new gf is a little bit demanding about sex, I don’t know if it’s because she had sex with her ex-bf so many times and compared it with me or not but I haven’t ask her about this because she said she doesn’t want to talk about her past with her ex-bf since it was a traumatic experience for her.
Anyway, I would love to talk to you more about this if you don’t mind, can you please tell the administrator to give you e-mail address so I could send a message to you or how do I tell the administrator to tell you my e-mail address. I really appreciate your help, thank you so much.
You’re welcome Aaron.
I don’t know what sort of person your girlfriend is and what I wrote really is just run-of-the-mill stuff that you can find elsewhere on the internet. I’m not an expert nor a consultant for this sort of thing, so I’m afraid I can’t help you further, as much as I sympathise with your situation.
As I said, please look for forums or websites elsewhere that deal with giving sexual advice, as there are likely to be many more ‘qualified’ people there that can help you. So, with all due respect, I would prefer not to give out my email address. I hope you understand and best of luck to you
aaron, western women love petting and my guess is jw luv it too. You need to relax and get in the right mood! My jhubby can’t relate. My problem is not only foreplay but getting it period. weekends only? not spontaneous. and getting boring everyday.
I was married to a Japanese woman for 13 years, and this is my honest experience and advice.
1. Your Japanese fiancee will have PLENTY of sex with you before marriage. Once you are married, that will stop, since she has what she wants.
2. When your Japanese wife has her first child, she will sleep with the child, not you. Your sex life is over, until she wants to have kid #2, or wants something (like a car).
My advice: If you are a non-Japanese man and would like to have sex at least once a week, DO NOT MARRY A JAPANESE WOMAN.
Here is an experiment: Do not ask your Japanese gf/fiancee/wife for sex. See how long before she ASKS YOU. I did this a few times, and usually after a few weeks, she would say, “Hey, don’t YOU feel like having sex?” (never, “I feel like having sex…”).
You were warned! I just wish someone had warned me….
Heinrich,
I’m sorry to hear your story as I think you are in a bad place and perhaps feel allot of pain. I am in my 10th year now, with 2 kids and would like to tell you my thoughts.
I lived in Japan for 3 odd years and that’s where I met my wife. After our first kid sex did drop. But after going through it, I think I’m beginning to understand. For a woman its a big change. Physically and more importantly mentally. I have found my wife quite mysterious and very hard to understand, in the psychological sense. The reason I decided to reply to your post was that I think I can relate to your comment about how she said ‘hey don’t you feel like having sex’. That’s in some way like my wife as well and I think its just because of the culture. How fluent is your wife’s English? That’s because I think it may have been her way of saying ‘I would like to have sex’. I don’t mend to under mind your situation but I think they are a very humble race. Unlike Americans who (it seems to me) are brought up to be confident and say what they want, rather the Japanese way which is to wait for the other person. They care for the other before them self so to speak.
I disagree with you about warning people. If you look you’ll find all races and creeds have marital problems. I’m not religious in any sense of the word but I do believe in Karma. Go en. Do unto others and all that. You’ll get back from life (and your wife) what you put in. Slow, time and caring can do wonders. How do you feel about your children? Don’t you love the way they are with your wife? The stupid things they say, the mixed English and Japanese phrases? Its hilarious at times.
All said and done, I’m past my own problems when it comes to my kids. As I’ve gone through my 30′s theres been times when I felt so alone but some moments when I see the look in my kids eyes it makes me understand what life is all about. My wife is the most (quietly) caring and thoughtful person I know. I love her to death and although the sex has declined theres other aspects of life that she has made me aware of that I never knew existed.
Is it time for you to stand back and evaluate where you are, what you want and where you will go? How old are you if I may ask? As I believe your values will change as you get older.
Regards
Well said, Mr. V. I’m in my 40′s and as my testosterone level tapers off I’m not always “jonesing” for sex the way I used to, so I can look at this issue more objectively. A few years ago I opposed my kids occasionally joining us in bed because it eliminated the possibility (remote as it may have been) for sex that night. Now my youngest is 7 and I love it when he wants to sleep with us; pretty soon he’ll be too cool for that.
Reading this fascinating forum, one would think Western women are more enlightened and make it a point to have sex with their husbands at least weekly (or whatever) to maintain intimacy in the relationship. But judging from my American friends who are married to American women and have children, this is clearly a universal issue. Surely there are a percentage of women in every culture who have a sex drive which matches yours, and if you’re married to one then congratulations. But on the whole human males want it more often and kinkier than human females – its a fact of life, and the sooner you come to terms with that the less frustrated you’ll be. It’s similar to monogamy. It’s not in our nature, but most of us accept it as a condition for a harmonious marriage.
who cares, man? japanese girls who go for foreign men look like dogs anyway.
Dear Mr V,
I am 43 now… at 40, I gave up and divorced my Japanese wife after 13 years of marriage, 8 of which I slept in separate beds.
Her English is flawless and I know what she meant (I speak Japanese as well), when she said, “Don’t YOU feel like sex” (the stress was on the YOU…).
Thanks for your thoughtful and considerate response. I wish you and your lovely wife a long and happy life together.
Some years ago standing in front of a train station waiting for my ride in I noticed a couple of Middle-Eastern looking men loitering. Soon after a middle-age Japanese woman walked up and asked if one of the men had a moment and away they walked. Surprised, I began to spend time at that train station observing even when I didn’t have any business there and the best I could figure out was that there was a small group of swarthy gaijin men who were pimping themselves to lonely Japanese housewives.
Another time when single and living alone I had a new neighbor move next door. Middle-aged and extremely attractive I wondered about this woman as she never seemed to leave her apartment. Clearly she didn’t work yet the few times I saw her she was over-dressed in expensive clothing and impeccably groomed. One night about 2:00 AM while I was returning from a night of revelry she was dolled-up and going out. As embarrassed as I am to say this I followed her. I didn’t have far to go as the entertainment district was just a few blocks away and in a narrow, dimly lit street I saw her meet the elegant dark haired gentleman who supported her.
Years later my Japanese sister-in-law told me a story of a friend of hers that has been carrying on an affair since before the birth of her child. The child grew up watching this strange man appear most every day while the father was at work. One day when the child was old enough to talk he told the father that “Mommy’s friend didn’t come over today.” End of marriage.
When I was 29 a high school senior girl gave me the best blowjob I have ever had before or since. She did so completely unsolicited and clearly knew what she was doing. Where did she learn this I wondered?
Watching Japanese TV one time I saw an interview with a 19 year old American musician who came to Japan out of his fascination with J-Pop. In the interview he stated that what he most loved about Japanese pop was its total absence of sex. I still wonder how things turned out for him in Japan.
Don’t you think that in a country that sports bras for men, gender confusion might actually be a problem at a national level? Don’t you think it’s a symptom of a deeper problem? It’s no wonder so many have sexless marriages, with such confusion! They would rather pleasure themselves cheaply than try to turn the flame back on in their marriage. And if feel a sort of incest-like filial piety toward their spouse, then why get married in the first place? Perhaps these feelings come later…but still. If your everyday job and lifestyle take away the fire from your marriage, then it might be a WARNING SIGN THAT SOMETHING IN YOUR LIFE IS WRONG.
im afraid that one day i wake up i dont love my husband anymore…(hes japanese)
3months ago i post a comment here about my sexless life, i try to talk and explain to him
but nothing changes… enough
Ok female westerner here, but my concern is related to this somewhat.
I live in the UK, and have recently developed feelings for a Japanese guy.
He claims to be ‘non Japanese’ and westernized, which, after several years of living abroad in the west, he certainly is, but I have my doubts.
First of all: Japanese attitudes to screwing around outside of relationships.
He has a girl in Japan which he refers to as his ‘ex’, but insists on staying faithful to. When I first got to know him, he was keen to have casual sex, as was I, but we quickly both realised that we wanted more from each other, and so things never progressed, and he now refuses to sleep with me despite kissing me sometimes. I find it strange that it’s only ‘cheating’ (on his ex?!) if you feel something for the other person. I also have my doubts as to he would ever truly choose me over a Japanese girl because I know she and I must be polar opposite. He says he tires of all the makeup and fashion and the whole Japanese girl experience, but I get the feeling despite his protestations he is a fairly traditional Japanese at heart.
Second of all, are there any girls out there who are married to/ dating Japanese guys? I’d be keen to hear your experiences.
He is a fairly affectionate guy, but I’m pretty demanding sexually, and I’m not sure if he can live up to my expectations in bed. When we did mess around together it was fun to be like ‘this is how the japanese kiss and this is how the english kiss’, but when he hugs me he sort of pats me awkwardly instead of giving me the sort of affection I’m used to.
Maybe this is because he is still attached to this ‘ex’… or maybe it’s becasue he’s Japanese and his way of touching/ affection is different, despite his claims of being pretty much igirisujin.
Quite a weird situation as I’m usually pretty intuitive and can see bad news coming with this sort of thing, but for some reason the fact that he’s Japanese has just left me at a total loss. It seems to be a TOTALLY different set of ideals and morals to what i’m used to from western guys.
Thoughts?
Happylovesit, as a white male with many years under my belt in Japan I have seen many, many happy marriages between white Western women and Japanese men. In fact, on average, I think that those marriages are more stable and happier than the white Western male marrying the Japanese woman. However, down to the person with every Western woman who marries a Japanese man that I know, the woman is a strong, dominant and even powerful person and the Japanese male is weaker and is taken care of by his wife on some level. God knows Japanese men are spoiled by their mothers ….
Hi Happielovesit,
I’m an Australian male, I have a Japanese girlfriend, and I can relate to what you say about the hugging. Early on she said straight out “Japanese people don’t hug”. Of course with practice she came to see why westerners like to hug
She wasn’t awkward but it was clear that it was new to her, and it took us a while to become comfortable in each others’ arms.
Japanese people do have a completely different set of beliefs and expectations to us. The hard part about identifying the differences is that on the surface they don’t appear so great. Your friend is still Japanese at heart, even though he can act like a westerner.
I think the difficulties that have arisen with him have more to do with his personality than with Japanese culture. On this page people talk a lot about the problems with Japanese culture, but there are a lot of good things too. Despite the many stories of marital infidelity, I think that generally they are loyal and trustworthy in relationships. They value an emotional connection. And the ones that get into relationships with westerners are generally open to new ideas and experiences.
- James
my husband and i almost 1-2 times in a month
having sex, im also demanding about sex, he is very sweet and he always hugging me everytime we sleep and thats make me feel sad because instead havin sex he rather to sleep, to feel secure anyway, when i start to to ask him about it he is very angry that make my feeling aloop (distant) to him, theres is no third party but i know he always watching japanese porn make me hurt, sometimes im thinking myself as mother or maid, and one questionable to me is i know he loves me… but why sex very issue im 27(philippines)and hie 31(japanese)
pls advice..
it would help to me
thanks,
jen,
you are in a situation that is unlikely to change given the culture.
you have two choices; accept your current situation or not. there is no ‘changing’ the situation. anyone who says otherwise is not being reaslistic.
is it possible that the situation can change – yes, but not likely.
Japan has big intermacy problems -
loss of face, space, anxienity as well as too much hentai in the media.
For japan to get this right they need-
Gods word
Clean media towards woman with the banning of illicet clubs and magazines as well as sites and dvd sales.
A health work life for teenages as ewell as a boyfriend or a girlfriend.
Mr Welsh,
I think you are fortunate that you are NOT married to a Japanese woman.
Your answer is akin to the idea that “a man with a hammer sees every problem as a nail”.
A man with a Bible sees every problem having a solution that somehow involves God.
I won’t go into the God thing, that is your belief and I respect that belief.
Media all over the world is quite similar. They show sexy women to excite men (and some women).
Pornography is not the cause of sexless marriages in Japan. The Japanese themselves are mostly a passionLESS and SEXLESS people. Read the other comments…
I was married to a Japanese women who claimed she was a Christian and went to church every Sunday. God’s word, God’s power, the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus couldn’t make that woman interested in sex.
P.S. A spell checker can be your friend.
Their mainstream media is incredibly tame compared to ours. You ever see a girl in a swimsuit on TV? Let alone a pair of actual breasts. I don’t think the Japanese are brainwashed the same way we are. But for some reason they still turn to pornography, which is addictive and will interfere with normal sexual functioning. I think if Jen’s husband didn’t have access to porn he would be more interested in her. Most likely he’s watched so much porn he’s no longer able to be excited by normal sex with a real woman.
Heinrich,
You may want to consider that other men’s experience with their Japanese wives are not identical to yours … I have been married 14 years to a Japanese woman and sex has never a problem. Romance and passion are still in tact as well. And my wife never wanted to sleep with our child instead of me. Has my marriage always been easy? No. Whose is? That being said, Japan has always occurred to me as an erotic country.
Happylovesit,
I am also a western woman who is engaged to a japanese man. i agree with other posters that he is still a japanese at heart. with time, you will see how much so. he is attempting to assimilate himself with English culture because by becoming more international, he rises above the average japanese person. Never underestimate the value of learning english for a japanese. when he considers his relationship with you, believe me he factors in the language practice. this has become an area of contention for myself and mine. i am currently learning japanese (it relates to my work) and i spend a good deal of time in tokyo living with him. he does not help me with the language at all. not fair. he simply does not see the need to invest that kind of time and energy into our relationship. parallel lives.
as for the “ex” he probably hesitates to get rid of her because he wants to do what society (and his parents) tell him to do. marriage is on the “to do” list of japanese, and once it is completed they check it off. love, passion, knowing each other are not the fundamental basis for a marriage. societal sanction is. he may not have any intention of ever marrying a western woman.
he also works like a dog, is emotionally and physically unavailable to me. he says he is trying to change his ways, but he is so confused, that i doubt it will ever happen. we have known each other for 10 years, in that time he has never once placed me above his work. i feel like i am dating a married man, his job is his wife. we western women expect to be the number one priority of our men, or at least they should act like we are. for example, he will not fly to hawaii to meet me when we are separated for months at a time. he does not attempt to contact me for weeks at a time, forget about romance. don’t expect i miss you, i love you, gazing into your eyes, etc.. unless he says and does these things very awkwardly. he knows that is what westerners do.
about the romance. he behaves out of obligation, not romance. you can watch the sunset together, but you will experience it very differently.
now about the sex. he is very giving and skilled, but yes, kissing and hugging are not the same. how can i get him to open his mouth??? he views spending the day in bed as a waste of time. like all other things, he is very mechanical sexually. as for the topic of this forum, we are not sexless in terms of frequency, but i miss lovemaking with a western boy. passion, romance, a warm body. i frequently describe my partner as cold, distant, and absent.
i should also mention that he is faithful, and uber-committed.
Been having a good old read of this thread which dates back a few years I think…
Well, I’m on Japanese wife No. 2 and sex went out of the window when she was pregnant which is 7 years ago now. I have tried and tried to rekindle our sex life but to no avail.
Now,I have a girlfriend who is also Japanese and sex with her is fantastic. In fact I now understand that what I did have with my current wife was not so great as it was all about me doing the work in the bedroom – she just lay there, but as she was a real stunner I could kind of put up with it.
However, I know that if I were to divorce (again), and get married to the girlfriend, history would probably repeat itself, despite being assured to the contrary.
I have a daughter who I want to see grow up and realise that divorcing would wreck both our lives. I have two kids from Japanese wife No. 1 who I never see because she continually gave me the run around with visits. So I have just given up for my own emotional/mental health.
I’m 44 now and as horny as I was when I was half my age. I decided at the start of this year that I was going to get myself a girlfriend as I was sick and tired of paying for it and jacking off in front of the computer. My life has been transformed because of this encounter. I used to be so depressed by the situation especially as this marriage is second time around for me. (Japanese) Women seem to go off sex when they get married. I have never met any gaijin who said that wasn’t the case.
Incidentally, I have a British friend who is married to a Polish woman who has exactly the same problem. They have 2 kids. He uses escorts occasionally but is unhappy in the relationship because of the lack of sex.
I need regular sex and will continue to get it as long as that need persists. But as I have the kid, divorcing for me right now is the wrong thing to do. I did it before and it has damaged the lives of my two other kids.
sorry to ramble. just getting the thoughts down as they popped into my head.
your thoughts would be very much appreciated
Treehugger,
Thanks for your post. Although he is fluent, I’m sure he is as much interested in having a Western girlfriend as I am a Japanese boyfriend in terms of furthering language skills, which I’m sure you’ll agree is no good basis for a relationship.
What you said about marriage really hit home. I remember him saying to me that he is now XX years of age, and as his parents are now elderly he needs to marry quickly in order to please them. He said therefore, every girl he meets he must consider as a prospect for marriage. Perhaps that is indeed his prerogative to stay involved with his ex.
Well anyway, I’m now sure that we can’t provide each other with what we need in a relationship, due to both personality and cultural barriers, never mind the extra complications with other people in both of our lives. I must say this experience has wholly put me off the idea of having any kind of relationship when I move to Japan next year.
It’s a shame that cultural differences in relationships seem to be such a huge issue, and would be very keen to hear of any good experiences!
Anru wrote: “(Japanese) Women seem to go off sex when they get married. I have never met any gaijin who said that wasn’t the case.”
That hasn’t been my experience. I have been married almost 15 years to a Japanese woman and she is as horny as ever. You may want to consider taking responsibility for what occurs in your life for wherever you go there you are.
@kayumochi Thanks for your comment. Are there any other people subscribed to this thread that can confirm that Japanese men/women do not go off sex when they get married? I think that lack of sex among married couples is a problem everywhere in the world, so it would be good to hear more from people who have a Japanese husband or wife who have a successful sex life after marriage. As with any forum, the people with problems tend to post the most, so let’s please hear some success stories! ^^
I must agree with Anru, I have never met a gaijin woman married to a Japanese man who has had a good sex life after a few years of marriage or living together.Their men are pretty much the same as the women , if this is any consolation for the foreign men.
I think staying in a bad relation just because you have kids will be bad for the kids moral in the long run, don’t you think that the kids understand what is going on between the parents??
I am a normal gaijin woman with a normal sexual appetite , but my partner never shows any kind of interest in having any intimacy with me after a few years of having been together. I am in my 2nd long term relation with a Japanese and the 1st one was almost the same.
This is the reason why the Jap. population is in decline, the just have no space for sex in their lives. It is only work, watch TV and sleep whenever and where ever they can. They have the life beaten out of them.They are a sad people and a dying race.
kayumochi,
Lucky you! I would say that you are the exception rather than the rule. Or maybe you have an incredibly low sex drive and the “once or twice a year” counts as high excitement and romance for you. You say your wife is “horny as ever” – please quantify. Does she ever initiate?
You are fortunate that your wife didn’t want the kid in the same room. Did she have experience of a foreign culture when she was brought up, or did you just assert yourself on this point?
Amber,
I think that staying in a relationship where there is a constant tirade of abuse/arguing is bad for a kid, and in that case a split would be advisable. In fact that was the situation with my first Japanese wife who was a bully and on 2 occasions caused lasting physical damage to my face!She is also involved in a very powerful religious sect in Japan that has a strong political arm, as well as coming from a family where DV was the norm. I do not have this with my current Japanese wife, but my daughter is very much aware of the total lack of intimacy – she sometimes demand that we hold hands or put our arms around each other. My wife will laugh it off or just change the subject and it doesn’t happen for more than 10 secs if at all.
Mike,
Thanks for raising the question: Are there any other people subscribed to this thread that can confirm that Japanese men/women do not go off sex when they get married?
Interestingly there have been no postings as yet ………
Arnu, yes, my wife does initiate and sex 2-3 a week is ideal for her but honestly it is often a bit less than that for us. Once we moved from her parents place 6 months after the baby was born (we all three were in the small same room) we were relieved for the baby to have its own room and that is the way it is today … more than 10 years later. And no, she had no foreign influence growing up in the hinterland of Japan.
I am assuming your first wife was SGI. Odd thing, religious-minded Japanese, whether it be SGI or Christian. I stay away from them. My wife works for a SGI man and is disgusted by him and the whole sect.
Another thing: both Japanese men and women seem to believe themselves simply not sexy after marriage/childbirth even though there is no evidence that they are not. They believe it to be true and so it is for them.
kayumochi,
You sound like you have a good marriage with intimacy and affection. That’s great. I wish you well.
We currently don’t live in Japan but plan to return there in November permanently. Interestingly the sexless problem has been much worse here in the UK than it ever was in Japan. Partly due to her being depressed because she hates living in the UK I guess. It’s all quite frustrating as it was her idea to come here in the first place! I was dead against it from the start, but eventually gave in. Maybe the move back to Japan will get things going again. Our daughter is six and has her own room which will continue when we move to Japan.
The feeling unsexy after marriage/childbirth is an interesting point.She has certainly let herself go in the last 4 years. She’s curvy (which I like) but she classifies herself as obachan – a deathknell to any kind of physical intimacy. She believes that sex was something we did in our younger years.She admits she has no sexual feelings, but doesn’t want to do anything about it.
I am resigned to going back to Japan – she has refused to work for the entire time we’ve been here and I can’t do 12-hour days six days a week any longer. London is so expensive. I know I’ll be paying a third of what I do here on rent as well as food etc being cheaper. I’m not holding my breath for the relationship. What will be will be. I’ll just have to accept and deal with it in the way I’m doing now. Divorce just seems too easy.
Arnu, actually we left Japan 3 years ago after more than 10 years of marriage all spent in Japan but it was my idea to come to the States, not hers. While one one level things have worked out here (school for our daughter, house) on another level they haven’t (she misses her family, financially it has been tough). Sometimes she clearly isn’t happy here in Atlanta. As I said, it was my idea to come because after 14 years in Japan I was in a rut and after arriving here I immediately felt a burst of energy and felt better than I had in years. Yet I find myself wanting to return to Japan because life here seems so complicated sometimes, especially the situation with health insurance coverage. In hindsight I simply needed a break from Japan but at the time I thought the answer was to leave for good. Now when I mention returning she gets mad at me because I brought her here.
I will have to give my wife credit for taking care of herself and staying attractive and not falling into that all to common “I am an obachan” mindset. Her Japanese friends here have fallen into that and it shows.
Anru: I know your story, and I have heard this song before. It goes like this, “It will get better when….”
But here is the bad news. It doesn’t get better. I know.
When your more curvy Japanese returns to Japan, the land of thin women, she will be greeted with , “FUTATA NEH!!” which literally means, “HEY! YOU GOT FAT!!”.
Your wife will stuff herself with all the “good Japanese” food she missed. Mine did, and she got fatter in Japan, despite blaming the American diet.
Add to this, getting divorced in Japan would be a nightmare for a gaijin. Child visitation doesn’t exist in Japan. The kid goes with the mother and her family. You gaijin-woman-stealer-barbarian will be sh#t out of luck. Japan is a non-Hague nation in terms of child custody, so don’t think an English/American/Klingon court decision will be worth a hill of beans in a Japanese court.
To save your marriage, you need to get tough. Tell your sexless wife to step up, or she will be a divorcee in England… Get counseling, tell her to get off her dead TV watching ass. After I left her, my ex was forced to get a job, pay the bills and do everything herself… something she was NOT used to.
I know you want to “keep the peace” as I did, not one wants to fight. But looking back, maybe I should have fought with her more, instead of just divorcing her. Not so much for her sake, but for the sake of my children.
I must say I am MUCH happier since the divorce. I found a nice Polish girl and promptly spent the following 18 months catching up for the sex I DIDN’T have with my sexless Japanese wife.
Anyway, I wish you all the best in whatever you do. I always advise men I know NOT to marry Japanese women.
When I was married, I once asked my ex-wife what she was looking forward to in life. She said, “I can’t wait to be a grandmother!”
She was 30 years old when she said that.
kayumochi,
So we have almost a reverse situation re which partner wanted to get out of Japan in the 1st place.
Interesting coincidence that we were both there for 14 years. I really needed a break from Japan and it was that that finally made me accept my wife’s idea of leaving. Life is tough financially, though it seems your wife is working which is great.
If I’m honest, my wife wanted to leave after about 6 months of being here. But I was like “F**k you! I just gave up permanent residency to be here – make it work!”About 3 months ago I admitted to myself that being “right” and being “happy” are mutually exclusive a lot of the time and that in fact a return to Japan would suit me as well as it would her. I’m 44 and a qualified English teacher (both here and in Japan) and I know there’ll be work for me somewhere out there when I go back.
This is a thread about sexless Japan but it’s certainly giving me food for thought about how our standard of living/lifestyle can impact on intimacy, affection, sex etc.
”I can’t wait to be a grandmother!” Frightening, as I have heard it before and when I do I look at my wife in amazement asking her “Why?”
kayumochi: Why do Japanese women look forward to being Grandmothers? Easy.
In Japan, the Grandmother is usually taken care of by her children and grandchildren. She can say whatever she pleases, she is not expected to work, clean a dish, cook a meal… she is basically a pampered princess.
This was the life my ex-wife aspired to.
Arnu, it is interesting we are the same age and we both were in Japan 14 years. Funny thing was, immediately after leaving Japan I had more sexual energy than I had in years. It has tapered off since then but then it really isn’t fun being horny ALL the time. For a while here I worked at a media company that employed a lot of intelligent, well-educated, sexy women younger than myself – the place smelled of sex and I could have gotten my share had I pursued it. Years ago in Japan both my wife and myself had other sex partners (well, I had one and she had more than one) for a short time and it did wonders for our marriage. Even today we talk about doing it again and I wish I had at the media company. Yes, my wife is working part-time and it keeps her sane.
kayumochi
your message is so heartening to read!! i recently counseled a german acquaintance to divorce his wife whom he hadn’t sex with for 6 – 7 years. yet he says, “we LOVE each other”
he has had girlfriends sporadically with whom he has had sex with occasionally.
yours is more the exception than the rule as japanese statistics will verify, however, it is my experience that if the japanese woman is encouraged to discover sexuality she can become quite a companion.
heinrich – perhaps if you were to look for qualities a little deeper than sexual appertite in a partner there would still be a relationship left when the sex dries up. Just a thought.
Heinrich,
Thanks for the comment. I know about the divorce / kids’ visitation rights nightmare from Japanese wife No. 1. I am glad you have found a partner that satisfies you.
kayumochi,
Yes, my sexual energy went off the scale when I got back home to the UK. Just generally more stress free despite a heavy workload. You and your wife seem to have an open and healthy sex life. The “other partners” would be impossible here – well, with both of us fully aware what the other was up to anyway.
My girlfriend was a very majime, inexperienced woman of 35 who has taken to the whole thing like a duck to water. I have a very open sexual relationship with her and this makes us very close. She will return to Japan next April. It would be nice to see her there but I am fully aware that life here can’t always be replicated there.
Re sexual energy tapering off try Maca. I have been using that stuff on and off for about 5 years and it really does work. Feel 18 again, but with the experience of a 44 year old!It’s not like “the little blue pill” – it gives you benefits of overall stamina with sport and work, even decreases stress too.
Happielovesit – thanks for your comment…
You are right, it is important to find someone who can grow with you as a partner.
My Japanese wife once remarked to me, “Why did you marry me? We have nothing in common”.
Which is true.
I am well educated, she had no interest in school.
I read books, she watched TV.
I love languages and learning about other cultures, she didn’t wish to associate with anyone who wasn’t Okinawan.
It was more than just a lack of sex.
“if the japanese woman is encouraged to discover sexuality she can become quite a companion.”
I have know both types: those that are uptight and either pretend or are not interested in sex and those that have a sexual history. I recall one woman I “dated” (she dated me actually) who never seemed really interested in sex, only dating (and getting married I found out later). Once when I managed to get her clothes off she lay there like a corpse and thought it odd that I didn’t fuck her after all that work. Sorry, but necrophilia isn’t my thing. Later when it became clear to her that she didn’t stand a chance with me unless she loosened up, she did her best to be sexual but by then it was too late and I had lost interest. There was another woman who was a bit older than me and had divorced quickly after marriage (omiyai) and had resigned herself to spinsterhood. She looked great and god knows I wanted to fuck her but she too was in rigor mortis. I am sure she is somewhere miserable wondering why life passed her by … Other the other hand there was that high school senior who gave me a great blowjob and must have been fucking for years.
kayumochi
The necrophilia factor or “maguro” (dead tuna) with Japanese women is so common.
My wife says it’s the man’s role to do all the work, all she should have to do is lie there. That is such a big turn off for me and I have lost interest for precisely that reason. The last time we had sex was 5th April 09, and I had to do everything. About 2 months ago I thought I should initiate again and she just lay there and I gave up after about 10 mins of giving foreplay and getting nothing in return. I couldn’t even get an erection – I was stone cold. She commented afterwards that I was too old and shouldn’t worry too much about sex anymore. “Yes,” I thought, “certainly NOT with you.”
The return to Japan is getting closer and I am asking myself if I really want to do it. Part of me says “leave” the relationship and let her and the kid go back by themselves. I want to tell her about the girlfriend and take the chance of everything falling apart. Japan can be a lonely place for gaijin. It’s not the same as London for sure. Can I live there again and survive that? If I had a solid loving relationship I think I could, but what I have at present has no intimacy and love. All we have is an incredible sense of duty to our daughter. That’s a lot of pressure for a six year old, even unknowingly.
It’s been awhile since I wrote here the last time.I was just reading the guys recent correspondence above.Its interesting and its just funny since all my Japanese friends-married-to-japanese guys(that Ive had a heart to heart talked) wants the life you guys wives has. Most of them says they wishes and wonders what it would feel like being love,being hug anywhere w/o worrying about people watching,being held hands to,being told I love you from time to time,all those sweet nothings.In short they dreamt(who hasnt) the kind of affection youve been giving your wives.Its their ultimate fantasy.They wonder what it feels like being love by a western man or even not western atleast gaijin(who doesnt share the japanese-asian culture).
Im pretty sure they silently look at those women-(in gaijins arms)with envy.That doesnt mean they dont love their husbands,its just that its an unspoken love.Their love is shown by the devotion to keep the family intact,to raise the kids,keep a confortable house,to help their husbands in anyways in making decisions and be his rock(theyre really strong though),their love is shown in making him feel like a king,making him feel like he has a happy home with kids having both otousang and okaasang(that is his inspiration to work hard anyway).
Then theyd say my husband doesnt talk to much,not even nihonggo,my husband doesnt say anything when we eat or in a cafeteria,hes not much of a talker but then he is a good husband and father,he really works hard for us (which is true,japanese men works like a cow)they dont rest even on holidays if possible(I wouldnt go into that).But then yeah what can we do they grew up in that kind of culture,how can you expect someone to show and initiate affection when shes never been hug even by her parents all her life,how can you expect her to be submissive when shes very confused.
My friends ask me often times how come its so easy for me to shower my kids with kisses and cuddles in public as If I dont care(by the way they turn their heads away whenever they see these situation though,they get shy seeing me instead of me getting shy).They want to do it they love their kids they just cant.Another friend told me If her japanese husband hugs her and tells herhe loves her one day she would think its “okashii” very strange and he must have gotten mad since he has never done it. So guys from their hearts of hearts your japanese wives likes the affection youre giving they just cant initiate,and if they pretend its so okashii and superficial,its so hard to be a fox when youre a wolf. So to all those husbands if you can still,just keep it fup,keep the affection flowing even though they shove it off,theyll embrace it w/o realizing.If you keep heating up wet charcoal in a stove eventually one while fire up.Hang in there I dont think divorce is an option,its so costly in these economy you dont wanna look back someday and say damn I shouldnt have done it,wish Ive steadfast,If only I have tried to adore,I could never have asked for more.
Thanks Yubi I appreciate your words. there’s a lot of truth in there.
Food for thought without a doubt
To Anru:
Glad I could help a lil bit with the thoughts.I really hope you’ll be able to save your marriage as I did with mine. If you are interested you and your spouse can check the book titled “The Marriage Masterpiece” or “His needs,Her needs” its insightful.She might understand you more and you will understand her better.Goodluck
Arun, to clarify: you were once married and divorced a Japanese woman and have a child by her you don’t see. You are now married to another Japanese woman who has a child by you and who wishes to return to Japan. You currently have a Japanese girlfriend in London. Hmmm … if you don’t mind me saying so you may want to consider having a fling with a woman of your race and background in London before either going to Japan with your wife or taking up with ANOTHER Japanese woman. There is something you are not seeing that only you can ….
I am with you kayumochi.
As an American man who has divorced his Japanese wife, I WOULD NEVER marry or date a Japanese woman again. I even avoid Chinese women, since I have heard similar things about their lack of passion.
Of course, every woman is different…
That isn’t quite what I meant Heinrich. Arnu has a blind spot. There is something he isn’t seeing that he needs to see no matter what he does next. In fact, when he sees it he will know exactly what to do.
You say you are in London Arnu? Get yourself to the Landmark Forum for a weekend. Trust me, things will be much clearer.
It is a shame that nobody has posted some of their positive experiences, isn’t it?
I feel that this thread just isn’t very constructive anymore. Although there is a lot of truth written about the differences between the Japanese culture and other cultures, far too many of the posts here are (I think) extremely negative, exaggerated and often inaccurate. Neither having been married or having been in a relationship with a Japanese woman for more than a couple of years, I can’t speak much from experience, but in my 7 years learning the Japanese language and culture and talking with many different Japanese people about this topic I can say that, as with any society, there are far more variations between individual Japanese people than this thread leads us to believe. In short, I have met sexually-open and pro-active Japanese women, at least in the dating stage.
I would say that with more open communication about a couple’s expectations, many of the sort of problems raised in this thread could be avoided or partially solved, especially with discussion in the earlier, developing stages of a relationship. Of course, I have little right to say such bold statements having no marital experience myself, so that’s why I asked for more balanced input from married couples.
But then, why would happily married (and sexually-active) people be reading a thread about sexlessness in the first place?
Mike, if you had read this thread completely you would have seen that I have been positive regarding my 14 year marriage to my Japanese wife. A single person commenting on married life is like a virgin commenting on sex or a childless person commenting on child rearing.
@kayumochi I’ve been following this thread for nearly a year and have read it in its entirety. I asked for more positive comments in addition to your own experience. It is my humble opinion that anyone is free to comment on issues such as these providing they make clear their background and experience, and I did make it very clear that my opinion was a bold statement based on the people (both married and not married) that I’ve talked to do date.
Indeed you did but to comment that this thread is no longer constructive is out of your depth. How would you know?
It seems women are the more miserable sex:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/opinion/20dowd.html
Although I cannot comment from experience on what post-martial relations are like, I do have some knowledge of Japanese culture and values. Also, the original post was about sex in Japan, not strictly sex within marriage. I’ve lived and worked in Japan for a couple of years and studied the culture and language a lot which, while it can’t compare to 15 years of marriage, is certainly not out of its depth.
My frustration is mainly because of the overwhelming number of comments bashing Japanese women. Many of the comments I’ve seen have been exaggerated views of Japanese society and the writers make no attempt to be introspective and consider how their own values affect how they look at things.
I’m certainly not any sort of expert on Japanese society, but it is quite clear that many of the comments here really don’t consider the issues in a balanced manner – that observation requires no knowledge of Japanese culture at all. I know many people are just letting off steam, which is fine, but in a post as popular and highly ranked in the search engines as this, I just wish there was more discussion about value-differences rather than ridiculous statements like ‘don’t marry a Japanese women’ and ‘they are a sad people and a dying race.’ People stumbling across this post and reading it get a very skewed view of Japanese society.
Interesting thread. I’ve been married for 13 years now to a Japanese woman, and we’ve certainly had our ups and downs. Married in Japan, kid born two years later, then a month later discovered wife’s infidelity about nine months into our marriage with a former lover, and shortly thereafter moved back to the US (when kid was really young) in a fit of “I refuse to leave myself in a position of weakness where you could really and permanently screw me over, particularly with a kid” pique. Other than that, typical story: Lots of sex before marriage, then tapering off after the first six months or so, until she really didn’t want to have anything to do with me (though admittedly there were complicating factors that I only discovered later).
Moving back to the states was traumatic for me (and she was really reluctant to come), as I had planned to stay there permanently, and the transition was difficult in the early years. But it has been a good move for our marriage: After floundering around for a couple of years in a silly office job, I went to professional school and now earn far more than I did as an English teacher in Japan. I’m not sure if that explains the change, but ever since starting school, our sex life has been generally quite good. Part of this certainly is the result of changed expectations: I have accepted the fact that she does not initiate sex, and that I need to guide her if I want her to do anything to me. I have also learned not to whine about not getting enough sex. More often than not, I generally take without asking – I think she prefers not to verbalize sexual matters – and she usually is willing (if she is not, I desist, without whining). By the time we get to intercourse, she is invariably enthusiastic.
I think a lot of it has to do with providing for her – we really did live in some true hovels in Japan – and in acting like a man. I speak Japanese well, but it tends to come across as feminine, especially with my wife, given where and how I learned the language. I realized a couple years into the marriage that this was a real turn-off for her, not just sexually but in terms of her basic respect for me as a man and a provider. Now she speaks Japanese, and I speak English. I’ve also realized that it’s important to her that I be decisive about matters – whether sex or household decisions – rather than verbalizing my uncertainties, or if I do verbalize them, that I finally act decisively and then don’t express regrets or second thoughts. I truly believe that too many of us who went to Japan as English teachers and who never had much success with American women tend to have passive, overly gentle personalities, and I think that once the exotic flavor of sex with a foreigner wears off, Japanese women find this character type as unsexy as American women do.
The key, I think, is learning to act like a man, even if you don’t really feel like the stereotypical masculine type. In other words, master the art of tatemae, and let your wife see that you can fulfill the role of a man, even if it’s somewhat at odds with your personality (do it long enough and eventually it will start feeling like honne). This doesn’t mean being a jerk – my work-related stress means that I often get irritable, and this is something I work hard to suppress. What it means is stating and acting on your expectations or desires or decisions with respect for your wife as a human being but not whining about them or about your wife’s reluctance to comply with or acquiesce to them.
What’s odd about the past seven or eight years, however, is that I feel emotionally less dependent upon my wife. I think she – and many Japanese – prefer this; in the initial years of our marriage, I believe she found my affection and, to be perfectly frank, emotional dependence stifling. Now I’m rather detached emotionally – not in my treatment of her but in my own handling of my emotional health. Part of this is the result of the earlier infidelity, which did kill something in me, and part of it is due to the fact that I am willing to admit to myself that I probably would not marry her if I had to do it over again for a variety of reasons (she may feel the same). She knows, though, that I love her, that I will treat her with respect, and that I will provide for her and our child; at the same time, she knows that I stand on my own two feet and that I would be just fine without her. And I think that makes me more attractive to her as an object of sexual affection.
Two more quick points:
1. I love Japan and get back as often as we can, but let’s face it: In terms of infrastructure for marital sex, Japan sucks. The whole country is designed exceptionally well for pre- and extra-, but everything conspires against a healthy marital sex life in Japan.
2. Toss the futon and get a bed. Preferably not one of those low platform beds but one that’s about waist high. I’m convinced that moving to a fairly tall bad has contributed toward at least 20% of our improved sex life as a couple. Futons are the death of regular, spontaneous, creative sex. My wife likes to be pulled, pushed, and turned every which way during intercourse, and you just can’t do that on a futon.
Hello everyone,
I came across this site through a google search and just wanted to say that I’m glad that I’m not the only one with a sexless marriage life sort of speak. I’m married to a Japanese woman as well by the way. At first I thought it was just our relationship but after reading all these posts, I feel somewhat relieved but still sadden by the fact that my sex life as well is diminishing by the year and it’s taking a toll on our relationship.
Just like everyone else, the sex was great in the beginning and frequent. Then came marriage but the sex was still there. It wasn’t until after our son was born things started to change. Most of time when I want it, All I would hear are the same excuses everyone else mentions (tired, Pms, headache, don’t feel like it etc..etc…) Didn’t seem to bother her before when she was about six months pregnant, coming home from work after an hour or so on the train and later in the same evening, having sex. But now, it seems like the list of excuses gets longer and longer. I expected the excuses form her after the pregnancy for a while but my son is now ten. I think the pregnancy really did a number on her and I hear the same thing from other people that I know who are married or were married to a Japanese woman, the sex just disappears after having kids. A few guys I know like to phrase this as “Mommy Mode” or “Mommy Hat”. Meaning, their main role in the marriage now is to be mommy and pretty much forget about being a wife.
Sad to say but If I knew things were going to turn out like this I probably would have never gotten married. I had more sex when I was single and didn’t even have to masturbate. You would think that being married, sex wouldn’t be an issue seeing how you always had a partner, your wife.
I don’t know how much more I can put up with this or what else to try. I’ve tried everything from talking, lingerie, toys, having the kid stay over at a friend’s house a night. It just seems hopeless right now.
Mike,
Get divorced now. Don’t waste years of your life like I did, trapped in that state.
Get out. Find someone who makes you happy. Life is short.
Don’t wait for it to get better, it never does.
I’ve been there…. brother, I have been there.
sexless mike,
I could relate to everything you wrote.
I think you have to look at how much you value your relationship with your son. If you were to get out of your marriage i.e. divorce and stay in Japan would you be able to see him? Knowing Japanese divorce culture probably not.
When I was first in Japan in ’91 (I live in the UK at the moment but am returning there very soon) I met this middle-aged, married gaijin who told me that he always had a girlfriend, and that if it wasn’t for the GFs he would have got out of the marriage long ago because after the kids were born the wife just didn’t want sex any more. I remember passing some kind of judgement to myself thinking he was wrong to do what he was doing.
Well, here I am, a middle-aged, married gaijin who over the last nine and a half years have put myself through sheer hell because of a total lack of intimacy with my wife. I mean a TOTAL lack. Not just sex. I mean everything: holding hands; cuddles; hugs; good morning, good night, goodbye and see you later kisses; saying good morning and good night…I can initiate all I want and she will reciprocate to a degree, BUT I just felt the relationship was soooo one-sided that I have just given up. Basically, if I don’t make the effort, nothing will happen.
Anyway, in May this year I got myself a Japanese girlfriend here in London. My life has changed! I feel alive again. I feel happy. I can stay in the marriage and take responsibility for my daughter. And this is what I am going to continue to do. I NEED sex and I appreciate just how important it is that I get it. I am no longer guilty about getting my needs met. I feel healthy now – before, I was depressed and suffered from a load of physical ailments. Hell, my wife isn’t going to take care of my needs, so I have to take responsibility for it myself.
Arnu, your story is fascinating and I hope you don’t mind me pointing out a few things along the way. Why did you get a Japanese girlfriend in London and not an English girlfriend? Your mention of physical ailments is interesting as was that way I was as well (and depressed) but after leaving the country I immediately felt better. Can you give some detail? I don’t blame my ailments and depression on Japan – that would be silly – but rather see that they were the result of how I was seeing the country and the life I had there.
kayumochi,
Thanks as always for your comments.
I was working from home teaching expat Japanese living in London. As I was working 10 or 12 hours a day, Japanese were the only people I came into contact with. I mentioned before about the wife’s refusal to get a job (even a part-time one) so being self-employed I had to get the hours to make a decent wage. The girl friend was a student! Shock horror! After 14 years of avoiding that situation in Japan I finally succumbed here in the UK. However, in terms of attraction, I find East Asian women very attractive. I’m 44, and when I look for British women of about my age I am not attracted to them at all. On top of that, I just didn’t have the hours in the day to meet up with anyone!
Then 6 months ago the business really started slowing down due to the recession – for every 7 families returning to Japan, only 1 was replacing them. Bad for business; great for love life. I suddenly had lots of time during the day. I even see the GF after lessons in the evening.
In March this year (before the GF situation began) I guess I finally cracked with my wife’s refusal to work and the stress it was putting on me having to do all the extra hours to get by. I was coming home at 10.30pm after teaching at students’ homes and often there was no meal waiting for me, let alone an “okaeri”. One night I came back to a mountain of pasta that had been cooked 4 hours previously and had dried up all the sauce. I expressed my annoyance but was just ignored. Off she went to bed refusing to talk. In the shower I thought “that’s it! I have to talk this out” I went to the bedroom and again she didn’t want to engage. In a fit of frustration I picked up a pillow from the bed and slammed it down on the bed. The corner flicked the back of her head. She sat up and said I had assaulted her and called the cops. Within 5 mins there were 6 police officers in the flat. I was arrested for what’s known as “common assault” here in the UK and spent the night in the cells. I wasn’t charged, just cautioned. When I came back home the next morning I was a changed man. I knew there was nothing left in the relationship with my wife – I just didn’t want to know. We have a daughter with whom I am very close to. I can’t leave, it would be just too much for her. I decided to stay, but promised myself a few changes. The GF started a month later.
I come back late most nights now despite not having much work on, disappear for long stretches of the afternoon with no explanation and my wife never ever questions me. Earlier in the year I had said that if she wasn’t going to have sex I would either pay for it or get a GF. I did the latter.
I feel great now. The GF is a lovely woman and there is a real closeness and intimacy there. In fact, let’s call it love! She’s from Kansai and will return in April next year. If it continues so be it. I hope so. If it doesn’t then I will look for someone else.
When I got back to the UK in 2005 I had already been living the 10-hour a day scenario in Osaka for about 6 years so I was burned to a crisp. I started getting loads of things wrong with me – prostate probs, kidney probs, asthma,depression/mood swings… I suppose I felt more able to get treated here rather than in Japan so set about trying to fix it all. After a year in therapy, and constant urging by the therapist to get into sport, I took up swimming in Jan 09 which I now do about 4 days a week. The best thing I have done for a long long time. The benefits have been huge.
I feel so energetic at the moment. The best I have felt for ages. Physically fit and emotionally very happy and balanced.
Sorry to ramble on…
Arnu, reading your story I wonder if your wife is manipulating you … driving you into the arms of another woman or into a jail cell so she will get to show her face of innocence to the world when she decides to leave you.
Anru, I read your story and I saw myself…
I would explode as well from frustration, but I never directed it AT HER. I broke chairs, keyboards, all kinds of stuff. Of course, she admonished me for it, as showing ANY EMOTION at all is forbidden in Japan.
I worked all day and came home to nothing. I was happiest when I was with my GF and I just couldn’t keep up the pretense.
Kayumochi makes a point, Japanese women are very manipulative. They take great pride in being able to control you. My ex tried to use sex to manipulate me… she said, “I will feel like sex if you wash the dishes..”
Yeah right. I work two jobs, she is at home all day, and I am washing the dishes while she watches Oprah and Dr Phil? I don’t f@cking think so…
Kayumochi and Heinrich,
Thanks for the comments.
Yes, she’s very much the manipulator. Her refusal to work here in the UK is what I have labelled as “sieging”. She knew I couldn’t possibly keep up the 10-12 hour days forever. She knew that the cost of living here in London is astronomical and that the only way out was to either get a job or go back to Japan. If she had worked we could have stayed here. So I feel like I am being sieged out of the UK. Kind of starved out. I have no choice but to leave if I want to stay with my 6 year old daughter,and hang on to my savings.
My wife really is a huge advocate of the great relationship I have with my daughter. It’s in her own interest. She saw me when wife No. 1 wouldn’t let me see my first 2 kids – the pain and emotional torment I went through. She knows damn well that I’d never choose knowingly to put myself in a situation where I wouldn’t be able to see my daughter, i.e. I’m gonna be sticking around no matter what happens to take responsibility of my kid.
I saw the GF yesterday evening, this evening, and tomorrow we’re spending the whole day together. All this while the wife does the rounds of her obachan cronies saying her goodbyes.
Reading the stories, I feel very sympathetic towards you guys. If things are as bad as you say they are, you must have gone through a lot of pain and anguish. I really do hope that you can find a solution that brings you and your families happiness.
@Heinrich While I really do feel your pain, I’m no so sure I can agree with your view that it is forbidden to show emotion in Japan. I see people in Japan (especially younger generations) openly holding hands and kissing often in the city and I know that, while displaying emotion is certainly more restrained than in other countries, it is definitely not ‘forbidden’ in any way. In my opinion, it is a cultural trait that tends towards the avoidance of conflict, which is very different from Western societies where (very generally) people are more open and prone to free exchange of differing opinions.
As for manipulation, I fail to see why Japanese women more than women of other nationalities would manipulate their partners. Have you any more information or surveys on this?
As I said, I am sympathetic to your situation and am not trying to rile you up, I just think some of your statements are too extreme and misleading. Apologies in advance if I’ve offended you.
Sorry but please let me interrupt with irrelevant topic.
I know a japanese guy for nearly one year(on the internet and I’m a non-japanese). I haven’t never met him yet. Months ago he’d like to meet me but I stopped him as he isn’t single ‘yet’. Long ago he ‘admited’ that he has a wife but in a hard trouble stage, in conclusion, he said something like he’d like to finish the trouble which I don’t get the clearly meaning because of his poor English. He’s been writing e-mails to me nearly daily until now and one day he said he’d like to see me if we can communicate happily and it’s possible to take a few years for that meeting. He talked nothing about his wife after that. Long ago I asked him he said he prefers to keep it private than to tell me. He just said he likes present relationship.
I think a Japanese guy isn’t good communicator plus his poor ability of English. As long as I know him he isn’t a playful person and he runs a law business in the South of Japan.
Now I’m trying to understand what Japanese thinks and probably some of you can help me.
Do you think is it worth to keep this relationship?
Great article on why women have sex:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/sep/28/sex-women-relationships-tanya-gold
The book might be useful!
This is a great thread and there are a lot of thoughtful responses and earnest questions here. The insight from gaijin women married to Japanese men is rare indeed.
As someone who has lived in Japan more than 20 years and been married twice, both times to a Japanese woman, and have numerous Japanese women friends both married and unmarried, I wouldn’t say that Japanese women are any more manipulative than any woman from anywhere. All societies teach girls in one way or another that they have to catch a man while they’re young so they’ll have someone to take care of them when they’re old.
What’s missing is what you’re supposed to do with him once you bag him in order to ensure he’ll stick around and follow through, and gaijin men need to understand that Japanese women don’t have the slightest intention of feeding the gaijin fish they ever catch. They just don’t get that refusing sex is a rejection of the man, which is his biggest fear, and it’s only natural that he’ll want to deal with it by abandoning the woman, which is her biggest fear. The gods are funny that way.
The truly sad part of the equation is that it’s way too easy to get trapped into a situation where children, lack of money or other unfortunate condition prevents a divorce. Fear of failure, or even fear of starting over can be factors, too.
A woman using sex as a method of behavioral control shows up in TV shows, movies, literature and stand-up comic routines everywhere. It’s a staple of conversation at pretty much any happy hour, dinner party or cocktail party. It’s one of the saddest states of the human condition. Having said that, I know that on rare occasions men can be guilty of it too. It’s not necessarily the woman who controls the sex; the one who doesn’t want it is in charge.
I don’t think over-generalizing about Japanese people is really fair, because I have witnessed so many forms of behavior here that buck every stereotype non-Japanese and especially Japanese can cook up. (I’m convinced that the proper translation of “ware ware nihonjin wa…” is really “my personal opinion is…”) And I know of no gaijin who ever got what they wanted by trying to out-Japanese the Japanese, regardless of how great their language skills were.
But I admit that all of the unhappy guys married to Japanese women on this thread have the same specific problem that virtually all of my gaijin male friends married to Japanese women have. Me too.
Perhaps it’s related to what I call the danna-san complex. So many Japanese women say they just want a “danna-san” to “take care of me”, and if you know anything about the Japanese geisha culture, part of the deal is that the danna who keeps a geisha isn’t supposed to expect sex. If you’re rich and egocentric and just want the status of keeping a pretty, interesting and infinitely desirable woman on call for clever conversation and green tea for the sake of envious friends and enemies, it’s great. But if you’re a typical heterosexual male who thinks that sex is an integral part of a healthy body, mind, soul and relationship you’re pretty much shit out of luck. Either suck it up and take it, or get a lover who respects your physical and emotional needs, or get the hell out.
Denying your spouse sexual gratification, even if you yourself don’t feel like dealing with it, is just as much a betrayal of the wedding vows as playing around. And one most definitely leads to the other. Morality only extends so far, and everyone has a breaking point.
The happiest gaijin males in Japan I know are those who married once, divorced after the thousandth rejection, then declared they’d never marry again. The bad part about it (or good, depending on how you look at it) is they have to change girlfriends every 2 years, because that’s about as long as the woman will feign the pretense of a healthy, sweet, loving and sexual relationship with a guy before she insists on coming clean with the ultimatum of marriage.
To any gaijin contemplating marrying a Japanese woman, I say if you ever hear her utter the phrase, “I just want someone to take care of me,” BEWARE because it’s code for “I want a free and easy life to do whatever I want whenever I want, while you slave away at a job all hours to make it happen.” Otherwise, do it at least once. Everybody has to put their hand on a hot stove in order to know better.
To @Whitelove… It’s not irrelevant if you intend to start, or are thinking about having, a sexual relationship with the guy. But I don’t see what his being Japanese has to do with it.
Japanese men want the same thing all men want, whether they can have it or not: Freedom from (or at least the hope of not) being beaten down by a life of rejection inside a loveless sham of a marriage. It seems like that’s what you represent to him on some level. Perhaps just psychologically.
Maybe I’m old-fashioned, but I don’t see how just sending emails back and forth on the Internet without ever having met in person can be characterized as a “relationship”? I think the proper term is pen pals.
@R2: I married in Tokyo 16 years ago and moved to the states 12 years ago. Sex comes and goes in waves, affected by childrearing fatigue and more recently perimenopausal hormone surges/ebbs. Overall I don’t think we have sex any less frequently than my American friends do with their American wives. But to your point about “acting like a man”. We’ve always had a great marriage but about 3 months ago she finally confronted me after years of being silently frustrated and told me we need a clearer separation of duties. Previously, if I saw dishes piled up or a mountain of laundry I’d wash or fold it – aren’t husbands supposed to be helpful in that regard? I figured if I saved her time doing housework it would get us to bed earlier than midnight and make sex more likely. Turns out I was driving her nuts – she’d rather I get out of the way to watch TV, read, whatever and leave the “wifely duties” to her. This includes vacuuming, grocery shopping… all the stuff I used to help with because I’ve been brainwashed by a western society that encourages a 50/50 division of household chores. Isn’t that one of the reasons Japanese women marry gaijin? (Unlike Japanese men I’m still very involved with the kids – homework, reading, playing whatever – I could never give that up and she wouldn’t want me to). It’s been surprisingly difficult adjusting to letting my wife do all the housework but after a couple months I’m definitely starting to enjoy it and the kicker is, our sex life has gone from 1-2 times a month to 1-2 times a week! I joke with her that if I ever get remarried I’ll be nagged and criticized by my new wife. Needless to say every woman is different but I recommend you all give this counter-intuitive strategy a try. Cheers.
@Dude
God bless you man! I am happy to hear to worked out for you. My sexless Japanese ex-wife would always say, “Maybe if you washed the dishes, I would feel like sex”, which was her attempt to manipulate me (I worked two jobs, she stayed at home, and she wanted ME to wash the dishes? I don’t think so….)
I am happy to hear that you are happy.
As for myself, I will never marry, date, or get involved with an Asian woman (I hear Chinese women are quite similar) for the rest of my natural life.
I’d be interested to hear the experiences of men who married Thai or Filipina women.
I am one of the rare gaijin women married to a Japanese guy.
We are having serious relationship problems and I have just realised that it probably has a lot to do with us being close to 100% sexless since we found out we were expecting our first child a year and a half ago. He is having an affair, and may or may not know that I know, but I fear that if I confront him our relationship will end quickly and nastily, so I want to win him back. I figure that if the affair is purely about sex, if I can only get him to sleep with me again (which I genuinely want to, not just in order to manipulate, despite how this may sound!) we might have a small chance at mending our relationship. Now, he prefers me not to come within 2 feet of him, and every time I try to make a move in bed, or even ask him to hug me or let me hug him or anything, he says ” I don’t feel like it” or “I don’t feel that way about you any more”. He also says that I haven’t been taking any pride in my appearance since becoming a mother. I have been making an effort since he said that and I still need to lose another few pounds to get back to my old weight but I suspect that blaming my appearance and saying he isn’t attracted to me might just be an excuse to cover up the fact that he is quite satisfied shagging the other girl.
Before we got pregnant there had been a number of times when he felt rejected because I didn’t respond to his hints at wanting sex, but in general we were in love and happy and enjoyed sex pretty well on average. He told me that this rejection really hurt him, and that he is not the kind of guy who can survive without sex.
Once we knew I was pregnant he said he didn’t want to, because he was afraid of damaging the foetus. I told him there are safe positions at most stages, but he didn’t want to, and I let it go too easily. He said he thinks I was pleased to be let off the hook, and perhaps a part of me was at that time. I completely trusted him when he said it was different when I was pregnant at that he could wait. He started cheating a few weeks before the baby was due. After the baby came along and I recovered and tried to let him know I was ready he always used the excuse that we would wake the baby. just once I pretty much forced him to sleep with me, and It was such hard work to get him to do it that I felt like I was making him cheat on someone –which I was in a sense, only I didn’t know it at the time.
Anyway, he is really cold to me now, but I desparately want him back, and I don’t know how much longer this feeling of wanting to try is going to last, so I need to act fast!
How can I seduce my husband?? How can I win him back? How can I make myself attractive to him again, as a lover not just as his kid’s mother?
Any advice please??
japanic
was your sex life acceptable before you got pregnant?
who initiated before you got pregnant?
Japanese men often look (unknowingly) for wives who will be surrogate mothers. You found one Japanic. Give him what he wants and dominate him throughly.
Kauyumochi,
What do you mean “give him what he wants”?
mitaboy,
Our sex life was good most of the time, but probably at times less frequent than what he wanted – sometimes 3 times a day but at least once we went more than a month, which was when I was totally absorbed with my career and (he feels) he was second priority. Definitely the fact that I sometimes went to sleep when he was trying to initiate something is still a big issue for him — hurt him a lot I guess. (We have been living together for about 6 years by the way)
Now no matter how hard I try he refuses to show any affection let alone have sex with me. He says I spent years destroying our relationship so I can’t expect it to be fixed with one shag (which I don’t, but I believe there’s a chance it might help). But I told him that I think if we don’t start having sex again, it’s probably just a matter of time until we get divorced, and he says that isn’t what he wants. But still no progress.
He will almost physically injure himself trying to get away and says if I push him too hard he won’t come home!
I think Japanese men and women at some stage have a very unhealthy view of gender roles after becimeing parents input into them. That parents are not sexy etc… But I don’t know if that is the issue here or not.
hi to all
It’s been a while since I posted.
Japanic, you’re in a tough situation and I want to share what’s going on with me right now. I wonder if there’s anything I can say that will be of use. Please see my previous posts to get the story. Anyway,…
I told my wife about the girlfriend. She had no idea that anything had been going on and was devastated. I explained that the reason for the affair had been a total lack of sex at home. She apologised to me for driving me away! She also said that she had wanted sex and had often fantasized about it with other men and had taken to masturbating on a regular basis. So, here we were, two people wanting sex but totally unable to communicate what we wanted. My wife had become a mother and I missed her being the “total whore” in bed. At last, when the affair came out, I told her what I actually wanted to do when we have sex. She was totally turned on!
I have not seen the gf for a week since I came out about the affair, and have been having very good sex with my wife. She went out and bought loads of sexy lingerie. And she is acting like the total whore in the bedroom again. Can I keep up?
She has lost her shape a bit, and the gf was both younger and slimmer, but my wife is my “type”. She always has been. (Lovely curvy bum which I am now telling her about non-stop in bed!!)
So what happened? – We stopped communicating about sex when she was pregnant and never got back to talking about it. My wife is sexy and attractive. I realise now that another guy would be happy to take over if I wasn’t interested.
Japanica, what would your husband do if you really apologised for the past (denying him sex) and said that you want to get it back on with him? Maybe, do something very overt in the bedroom – wearing something sexy or play with yourself and ask him if he wants to join in. Maybe, say that you need sexual satisfaction and have thought that if he can’t deliver then you’d have to resort to other means i.e. an affair. The thought of another guy satisfying my wife more than me would really dent my ego, and even knowing that she was only fantasising about it has made me buck my ideas up.
Your comments please.
Anru,
thanks for sharing your experiences so openly. It is helpful as there are certainly some common aspects. (Including that communication about sex broke down during pregnancy and hasn’t been successfully restored since, and that the gf is no doubt younger and slimmer than the wife who has lost her shape a bit…)
I have apologised several times about the past, and he says “ima sara?! If you realise it is so important why didn’t you wake up to the problem years ago when I tried to warn you?” And he has a point, and I don’t know the answer. But perhaps I need to keep apologising until my message is received.
Thanks for your suggestions, I am thinking about what might work for us…
Any more suggestions would be really welcome.
By the way, Anru, I was reading your old posts so this may be out of date but does she really know that you want her to work? My husband in part blames my working too much for our sexlessness, and also wishes I would stop working now and just be a full time housewife/mother. So I thought your wife might just be assuming that you want the satisfaction of fitting into the typical Japanese male gender role of sole bread-winner… especially now that you are a family.
Japanic,
I think your husband is hanging on to a lot of resentment from the days when he wasn’t getting sex from you. Furthermore, I’d say he’s using it now as an excuse to have an affair. As long as he’s resentful, he can justify having the girlfriend. I know because that’s what I did.
Why don’t you confront him over the affair if you know about it? He says he doesn’t want divorce. Why not go to the katei saiban (family court) and register a complaint about the relationship. Say that he’s having an affair and withholding sex from you. Maybe first of all go there and get the paperwork and bring it home and explain what will happen if he doesn’t change his ideas.
I went through the family court for my divorce from my first Japanese wife (you’re talking to an experienced trooper here!!). They provided two mediators and we went at it like that. They deal with all kinds of family issues and wives complaining about their husbands’ infidelity is near the top of the list.
Yes, it’s a lot of work for sure, but you have to ask yourself some serious Qs. Is this relationship worth saving? You have a kid, right? Would you be able to keep the kid if you get divorced? Tread very carefully on this ground and do your research. Gaijin have little going for them when confronted with a custody case.
Re wife working. We live in the UK at present and will relocate to Japan in 2 weeks! Life in the UK is very expensive – you need 2 salaries if you want to do more than just exist. My wife was quite depressed because she hates living here. She just didn’t have the energy to find a job. In Japan we can (and previously could) live on just my wages when we had our daughter. She says she’ll get some part-time work and I have also said I won’t be working to burn out again. I think it’s good for her to have a job because it gives her more social contact as well as some extra dosh. I never wanted to fit into the Japanese male stereotype of being the breadwinner. She’s 44 so it’ll be tough to find anything other than basic pt work no doubt.
Hope this is of some use. Keep asking the comments
Anru,
Glad to hear things have taken a turn for the better for you. In regards to your advice to Japanic, there were a number of Japanese women living in the same building my wife and I did in Japan who kept the paperwork needed to file for a divorce on hand – it seemed to have worked (and kept their husbands in line) because none of them to this day have divorced. Japanic, you may want to consider going and getting those papers and leave them where your husband can find them …
Like you Anru, we lived comfortably on what I made in Japan but it is tough to do that here in the States. Another reason to return ….
kayumochi,
Thanks for the validation re “getting the papers”!
If you do come back and ever come to Kansai then look me up.
Well, two weeks to go before we head back, and what a way to be doing that. Right now my wife is in the shower after having me pick out tonight’s lingerie. She’s already given me a dose of “bamboo flute” after stepping out of the shower and I am sitting here typing this knowing I am one hell of a lucky guy. Tomorrow, we’re going to buy some stuff from a sex shop and some cheaper womens’ fashion stores.
God, who’d have known this would be happening!
Japanica, take heart! If this can happen to me, it can certainly happen to anyone. I really thought my situation was beyond reparation.
Anru, how is the girlfriend taking all this? If I go back it will either be Tohoku or Tokyo – I know nothing of Kansai.
Anru & Kayumochi,
Thanks for the advice. Can’t tell you how good it is to have straight advice from “beteran”s!
I think I will get the papers and the lingerie!
How do I confront him about the affair? I found out by stumbling over their chats on his computer when he lent it to me, but thought it might have just been a phone sex kind of thing. Then kind of snooping to find out whether it was still going on or not.
He is going to blame me for not respecting his privacy, and hate me. (逆ギレ）
Do I work on trying to get him to sleep with me before confronting him or not?
I’d appreciate your opnions.
It is quite inspiring to hear your updates Anru!
Kayumochi,
The gf was saying that when we were in Japan she didn’t think it was possible to continue because of work, distance, blah blah blah, and I thought that was fair enough, although was getting quite attached. Now, she’s saying: “I love you and want to see you again, and I’ll wait till next April” Funny that…I’m gonna wait and see. First of all, is the home situation really gonna continue? To be honest, I think it will, but maybe not to the intensity it is now.
Japanic,
Re confronting.
1. Just tell him that if he isn’t getting it from you, then he’s certainly getting it from somewhere! You KNOW he’s having an affair.Women’s intuition. Period! And if he’s REALLY not doing anything then: “let’s play tonight”. (chance 1).
2. If that fails, then announce you’re off to the family court the next day. (chance 2)
3. Bring the papers back, show him, and once again invite him to play. (chance 3)
4. If that fails, return to family court and start proceedings. This will take a week and they’ll send him a letter. When he gets that then he’ll know you’re serious and the game is up.
Don’t tell him you have been snooping. Leave that to the mediators.
Here’s another way. Go to Yahoo answers and write an entry. “My husband refuses to have sex with me and I suspect …how would I find out if he is blah blah blah(give your story, but leave out the snooping) You will get loads of replies I guarantee it! Then, show him. For sure the replies will say: he’s shagging someone else behind your back and you should check his computer! (probably 100 times). You then use this to introduce the idea that he may just be playing away from home. Maybe then say you have had a look at his computer as a result of such overwhelming public opinion. He’ll deny it for sure. Then go to step 1 above and let battle commence. In this method, it was the other people who told you to do it, and they all can’t be wrong, can they?
(I used this method once when my wife went to Paris on my birthday with a friend. Boy, the ammo it gave me!)
I think when you try to initiate sex in the above steps then you should be ready to make it one he’ll remember too. Lingerie…whatever pops his sox. Also, you’ve seen the sex chat on his computer. Is there anything in there you’ve seen that might give you a clue to what he’s into. Has there ever been something he wanted to try but you felt it wasn’t for you? Might be a time to reconsider. Study about getting dirty and slutty in the bedroom. We love it – that really is how simple we are. He has to see your sexual being is totally separated from being a “mum”. How do you dress during the day? How do you do your hair? My wife had been wearing jeans for the past 6 years. Now she’s wearing skirts. I look at her now. Not just in the bedroom. I look at her everyday and think this is a sexy attractive woman. When we walk around town I know guys are checking her out. It feels good to be with a woman that other guys might be interested in.
Well, last night went as expected. Trying loads of “new” stuff. Too graphic to describe here perhaps.
Look forward to your responses.
Wow, Anru, it’s interesting to get an insight into how the male of the species thinks on these matters.
If you don’t mind my asking, what made you decide to tell your wife about the affair? And what made you kind of open up to her again?
My husband is so closed off at the moment. I feel that gradually he may be starting to let down his wall but whenever I talk to him about it he says it’s going to take time and that any pressure I put on him (including to let me be affectionate) will just push him away. I’m trying to work out if it’s best to give him some time and show him that I am changing, or if it is best to take a risk and act now given that his relationship with the other girl could be progressing…
Any thoughts anyone?
japanica,
I came home very late one night heavily under the influence of drink! She tore me off a strip, and I decided to retaliate with the confession.
I thought that would be it, and we would be divorced and the return to Japan called off. Instead, she apologised to me and said she understood why I had strayed. I apologized for the gf and the next day she went very very H on me. After 2 shags in a year, and pretty poor ones at that, I was sceptical. I didn’t believe her advances. Where were they coming from? After the drought it was suddenly pouring! But, after a week we are still at it. Early days? We will see…
Sexy lingerie, sex toys, and bjs aside, we are listening to the old tunes on YouTube that we listened to back in the late 90s. The romance is back. We are a couple. We’ve reclaimed “us”. We sneak kisses in the kitchen while our daughter does her homework in the living room. I tell her her bum looks sexy in whatever. She whispers that she wants me later. THIS is making love!! All day, everyday. Not just when we’re in the sack. Tonight, she’s gone out with some friends for a goodbye party. Rather than let her take the underground I arranged a taxi. I made the effort for her. And it felt good. And it felt good for her too!
Japanica, remember when nothing was too much trouble for you? When you’d do anything for him, before you were married? – You’d run and get a towel and dry him off when he came in from the rain; Get out of bed and get him a glass of water; Just kiss him for the sake of kissing him. And he’d do (whatever) likewise. That’s what a couple need to recapture. We take each other for granted quite quickly. We stop seeing the attractiveness in each other. We stop caring if we are noticed by our partners because we just assume that they’ll always be there. I would say that if you want him to take notice of you, then first take notice of him. Really focus on what it is about him that you find attractive, and just hold your attention on it when he’s there with you and when he’s not. Keep the focus on that and it will grow. Maybe even write it down.
We had become terribly hazukashi about the sex thing. We had become “mum” and “dad” and somehow ashamed of our own sexuality. My wife had become totally non-sexual (to me). I felt somehow repulsed by seeing her body because she was now a mum. We don’t want to have sex with the mums in our lives. But now, I don’t see her as only a mum (to our daughter) she is “C” who I had/have a very steamy love affair with.
Anyway,…
Anru,
that is wonderful that things are going well for you after a period that no doubt seemed as hopeless as I feel now…
I think you give good advice, and I had already been trying to do what you suggested with regards happily bending over backwards to do some little things for him because I love him.And I had started trying to write a little letter to him telling him why I fell in love with him & why I love him still… Do you think it’s best to give that to him or should it just be for me?
I’m still struggling to come to terms with something I think you said — do you thing that most guys want their wives/partners to behave like the actresses in the porn they watch?? Or do you think this varies a lot from one guy to another? Any other opinions than Anru’s?
Japanica, what is a turn on for me is a woman who is authentically sexually self-expressed without acting like she is naive and unsure about what she wants sexually or going to the other extreme and acting like a porn actress. I want authenticity in whatever form it takes.
Anru, it sounds like you are on top of the situation with the girlfriend on the back burner and with you happy in bed with the wife. Japanica, you may want to take control of your situation in whatever way works best for you. Keeping the divorce papers on hand has worked for others I know …
Thanks Kayumochi,
Does anyone know a link to a website with info on how to contact/get to the katei saiban? I tried searching in English and Japanese, and found a website with general info about the legal system in Japan,(www.courts.go.jp) but nothing specific about contact or access.
Also any advice on how to find about about child custody judgements would be appreciated.
Hi Japanic, looks like you were on the right page, here:
http://www.courts.go.jp/saiban/syurui/kazi/kazi_02-01.html
It tells you of a 20 minute process you can go through called 家事手続案内 (kajitetsuduki annai). It is like an 受付 (reception) service for the Katisaiban system, kind of a triage I guess.
On another page, here:
http://www.courts.go.jp/saiban/qa/qa_kazi/qa_kazi05.html
It tells you that for family issues like divorce, there are two steps to the court process after the initial 家事手続案内 above. First, they will help you talk about your issue with a family mediator (家事調停). Then, if that doesn’t solve your issue, you move into a Personal Court Hearing (人事訴訟).
There is a very good page here telling you everything you need to do to start the 人事訴訟. It even has a 訴状 that you can download in PDF format to fill in to start the process… (Maybe just print this out, and leave it lying around??):
http://www.courts.go.jp/saiban/syurui/kazi/kazi_04.html
Anyway, why not just give your local court a call:
http://www.courts.go.jp/map_tel.html
Obviously my translations are not official, but should be good enough, but I assume you can read Japanese anyway?
im so stress…
Hi all: I have just read the Savoei family case.Lets hope it will open the doors for fathers/parents who hasnt seen their kids because of the Japanese divorce law.Ive read Japan is reconsidering it.
IM MARRIED 2 A JAPANESE WOMAN …she was nice when i met her then when we got married every and returned to japan every thing changed..she became aself centered pushy demandin moody beach..never marry a jap..its a big pain the he ahole……..
Sexy Seasons Greetings to you all!!
Can someone save Aussiebob from himself? He talks of being with an ex-prostitute etc and that’s his own affair, i pass no judgements. He posts links showing pics of his designer collectibles. Again no problem with that. Problem is the links to his treasured goodies also contain pics of his kids and wife. I don’t think its fair for him to describe what he does with his wife and, at the same time, make available pics of her and his kids online. The man is a narcissistic twit. Severely lacking in giri-ninjo spirit. Dumber than dumb, this man has an attention deficit problem. Bring out the Ritalin.
I will write my conclusions on the subject, but please remember that what I say is a generalization. So maybe your experience is different and I understand that. But through my own experience and talking with hundreds of people, watching movies, TV and living in this culture for twenty years, I will explain it. And some of you will realize and say aha-hah!
It really is true that the majority of Japanese married couples don’t have sex that often. The problem is that gaijin come here, have wild sex with their girlfriends and think that they have struck gold. They wrongly assume that it will continue like that. I have lost count of the number of really nice gaijin men who thought they would keep romance and sex alive only to find that their Japanese wife sleeps with the kids, calls him papa or otousan, and has no concept that the man still needs sex.
You see, most Japanese women still want to get married. And a lot of them want to get married to a man who will provide for them and let them get on with enjoying their lives. So they want children, and want to spend their time their way, and have a husband who provides the money. Many Japanese still see marriage as the social thing to do, and a contract. The woman cooks and has the children. The man works. Even if the woman also works, she won’t see her husband as the romantic guy that she can’t wait to have passionate sex with. I even know young Japanese couples with no kids who don’t have that much sex.
One of the problems and reasons is that many Japanese don’t talk about sex directly. They will do it, and watch it, and talk about it when they are drunk, but if a couples don’t enjoy it, or one side wants to fix it up, they aren’t used to the Western idea of “honey, let’s sit down and talk directly and honestly”. And is basically hard to fix things if you don’t do that. Now if as a gaijin you think that must make life difficult, well you are right. And Japanese couples have the same problem. So they just drift apart and get used to it. Like so many other things i japan they just resign themselves to it (shou ga nai).
So many men don’t have sex with their wives, but have it with a girlfriend, pay for it, do it themselves etc, and yes, some are that tired and drunk that they don’t need it as much as the average American.
And women being what they are on AVERAGE don’t need sex as much. But the ones who do might also have affairs. But most of them carry on the affairs without their husbands knowing about it.
The crazy thing is that many, and I repeat many of the same women who don’t have sex with their husbands, had wild sex with them before marriage – often to show him they were the best, etc and as part of the way of getting married. And these same women often had affairs with married men.
But its easier to get excited about sex with a married man who you see once a week or month or whatever in a love hotel. When a woman is in love with a man, and especially if she hopes that one day he will marry, the sex is usually not a problem. But when she’s married? Then there is no need for her to pretend. ANd yes, when you are tired and stressed and have babies everywhere, many women simply don’t have the same desire.
So the answer? For a gajin man, the worse thing you can do is get mad. Even worse is to beg or cry. But doing housework probably won’t work either. You will just do more housework, and then get either depressed or mad as hell that even after doing that nothing changes.
You see, many Japanese women boast that they haven’t had sex for years, or that they wouldn’t want it with their husbands. And they will joke about it together.
Incidentally I know a Japanese woman whose friends are all married to gaijin, and they all complain about how much gaijin men want sex.
If you are a gaijin woman married to a japanese man you
have it worse. At least if you are a gaijin man, you can just demand sex. Yeah, you will feel terrible, and it isn’t what you want, and in our culture you will feel like a rapist, etc etc, but the same Japanese woman who doesn’t have sex freely, and justifies it on the basis of “that’s how it is with married couples”, knows that she is a “bad wife” if she actually refuses.
So you can divorce if you want, and then yes, you will have lots of wild sex with the thousands of willing Japanese women who will gladly act like a porn star with you on the first or at least third date. Or you could stay married and there will still be thousands of Japanese single women who will have no moral problems with meeting you. But will you be happy with that?
Back to the gaijin women, it will be even harder for you to be straight with your Japanese husband and ask for sex. Esp if you are pregnant or looking after a baby.
In short, Japanese need to learn about marriage. Go to a western bookstore and there are zillions of books about how to keep romance and sex alive in marriage even into old age. In Japan, most women would not feel up to hiring a babysitter so they can have a passionate date with their husbands.
But, get with a group of drunk Japanese – men and women, and everyone will be laughing about sex and affairs and sexless etc. It’s a sad society.
P.S Japanese women will often fake pleasure and orgasm after orgasm. Then when they are married you will wonder what happened. What happened is that they don’t have to act anymore.
Okay, the guys hanging out with single chicks and some liberated Japanese, or westernized will say I don’t know what I am talking about. But I speak from decades of experience with the inside of Japan and hearing Japanese talk in japanese about japanese. this may not help many of you, but at least I hope that for some of you, you will realize that the problem is not necessarily that you are not loving or desirable, or romantic enough. But whatever you do, don’t beat yourself up over it. Find a solution, but don’t get depressed, and don’t do anything rash.
So if you are waiting for that sexless Japanese wife to initiate – you are doing the wrong thing. She will be able to hold out longer than you. Just do it. If she punches or kicks back then that means stop.
But if she is motionless or unresponsive to kisses, touches, don’t stop. And don’t stop if she says “yamete” either. And even if after the end it wasn’t great sex, well, some kind of sex is better than no sex for most people. And it will better than thinking, “hey it’s been 3 days, or 6 days..or longer…and I even did this or that or let her do that etc and she still hasn’t come to me”.
Also, remember that if a woman is wanting divorce she may not want to initiate herself. But if through manipulation, she can drive to an affair and have proof, or get you so made that you touch her in anger, than she can tell everyone that you cheated on her, or did domestic violence, and then she will have all the sympathy and you will be the bad guy. And then telling people that you were unhappy with your sex life won’t work.
Anru & Japanic, how are things going with you?
Wow! This forum is still going! Well, none posted since before New Years, but I’m amazed at how long it’s gone on. My last post was #127 (26 Jul 2007 at 7:47 am). How are things fairing? By now, I’m sure that everyone has solved all of their problems and found peace within happy, healthy, loving & sexually satisfying marriages!
If interested, you could look back at those old posts of mine and see what my story was – my first post was #30 (30 Mar 2007 at 12:16 am) – but for now I will just say… hmmm… say what? Well, I wish I had known then what I know now! (By “then”, I mean both back in 2007 when I first posted here, and way back in 1993 when I married the Japanese woman whom I still love very much.)
I started to write a brief summary of what has gone on in our marriage since my last post of July ’07, but that “brief” update became 3 pages and isn’t close to finished. I’ll probably edit down what I’ve got and post it here soon, but I’ll just say that I’m surviving – our 4 kids make me prouder every day, my wife and I are still together, and it continues to be hard. That said, we’re definitely better off now than before. Things have definitely improved, but the change has been glacial. I have continually had to lower my expectations and expand the time frame in which I expect to see changes.
I will post more later, but I’ll just add a thanks to the many folks here who helped me by sharing their thoughts and personal experiences. Even those with whom I would still strongly disagree have often provided food for thought that helped me better understand my own situation. For that, I am very grateful.
kayumochi
It\’s been a long time … hope you are well. we came back to nippon (osaka) at the start of Nov. 09.
things are very good. thank you.
after confessing the affair back in Oct 09 it has been full on sex with the wife – more than I can ever have imagined!! In fact, there are times I wish she\’d just go to sleep.she is up for up EVERY night!!! ….yes!! EVERY night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, to all you sex-starved gaijin married to a japanese women who has stopped wanting sex: have an affair and tell her! OK, it depends on your situation, but for us it worked wonders. It was just the thing my missus needed to hear to get her back on track. And to be honest my wife was always much better than the girlfriend anyway. So I\’m a happy man – except for the job situation…. wow is it quiet here.
so what\’s happening with you kayumochi?
kakui
good to see your post.
keep posting, and asking Qs
Anru
Arnu, am glad to hear things are going well with you (what happened to the girlfriend?). I am on an indefinite break from Japan (since ’06). You mentioned the job situation there. I know this is off-topic but how is the job situation there?
kayumochi,
the girlfriend is still in London finishing whatever course it was that she was doing. I had got attached to her to be honest and so breaking it off was a bit difficult, but it had to be done. I also realised that I had far more in my relationship with my wife. For the girlfriend I was just a bit of fun abroad and she was never going to entertain the idea of anything more serious. We broke contact, and I haven’t heard from her since.
jobs…. mmm.
It might be too early to say (been here only 11 wks, and arrived end of year) but it seems a lot slower than 5 years ago. Got something but only a short contract. Wondering also if my age is going against me now. 44, but here that seems ancient for some reason. The wife is happy to be back … not sure really if I am yet.
If I had had a career back in the UK I would not have come back here. Getting old in Japan… do I really want to do that?
Hahaha, now this is why I’m glad I’m of the younger and raunchier, “disgusting” generation, as well as being an extremely fertile Chinese wifey.
I’ve had sex with my S.O. a lot, and it’s continued for several, several years already with no end in sight. The trick is to never let your mind grow old. Both of you must have the willpower to keep evolving in spirit, and to never stagnate when you reach middle-age and have those stupid “mid-life crises.” You can beat that. Mind over matter.
If you really must be so draconian about your sex habits and need ample tips, having porn around for both of you to watch helps, as well as engaging in threesomes with hot lonely Japanese wives during vacations. Pretty easy to find those. Let it out. Like in Vegas right.
Everyone really just needs to quit having all these hangups already. About anything, sex life, what you wear. Throw all those hangups out of the window.
Any wife who refuses to put out consistently is really lame in my opinion, I’m sorry. “Oh man I’m a bitch, I’m tired because I didn’t take it a little easier in the day and I didn’t make up for it. Oh man, my female friend said something that put seeds of doubt into my head so I’m gonna deny sex and not explain why. Oh man, I didn’t even TRY wild and abandoned sleepsex or even do Kegel exercises and I don’t know what I’m missing so I’m going to deny you sex, bye.” It’s always those fucking excuses that women came to me with every single time they wanted some sort of relationship advice, holy shit.
But any husband who does the same is also lame. Sex is very very important in your relationship, right up there next to your Respect and Love and Trust for each other.
I know women are creatures that like connection during sex. But it’s pretty easy to figure out. Even if you date a bitch for 4 years, you should be ready to break it off if either of you ever lose interest, otherwise you will definitely be settling for Mr. or Mrs. “Right-Now” instead of “Perfect”, as the saying goes. Don’t be an underachiever, no woman wants that, right?
I know being submissive is a fetish only for some, but damn, women are submissive by default and it feels exhilarating to simply “service” your husband EVEN when you as the woman don’t feel like having sex. It starts off as a “no,” then it becomes a “yes.” If this isn’t the case for her then maybe you should go find somebody else, or you’ll just be stuck in a marriage with less sex than you’d like, as a man. Nobody said you had to stick around with anybody. Nobody’s forcing you, certainly not her. If two people don’t mesh well, then they don’t mesh well. You’re not treating anybody like a product if you dump somebody plainly because she won’t put out.
Marriage does NOT have to be such a “pain” that everyone else around me seems to keep thinking. You simply are not trying hard enough to bring your standards of perfection up. There’s nearly 7 billion people on this planet and if you can’t traverse the earth for a hot busty or flat-chested girl or tranny of your dreams ready to put out AND be your best video game partner AND be your confidante, then you basically have failed.
Don’t be average.
Shoot for the sky, you know?
God, nobody ever tries anymore, it makes me sad when I hear about sexless marriages and mine is absolutely thriving. Especially when I’m probably going to fuck YOUR wife someday, her in between me and my husband. Tch.
Older people can be such boring dinosaurs. My way isn’t the path to destruction either. Religion also is a source for sooooooooo many hangups during sex, it’s not even funny anymore. Sigh.
Anru,
Would like to keep up with you. Send me an email to kayumochi at gmail dot com
Anru and Kayumochi and everyone,
Thanks for asking after us.
We’ve been in and out of the country and I’ve been busy with work.
Basically nothing has changed.
My husband is still having the affair…It’s been going on over a year now.
I confronted him about it, and we talked about everything a number of times, and he always tells me he isn’t having an affair any more, but I know he is.
He leaves physical evidence to the extent that I question his intelligence, and I told him about some of it, but usually I tell him I just know by the way he looks at me, or doesn’t etc, because that is sort of true too.
I phoned the courts and he walked in on me talking to them and asked who it was and I told him, but nothing changed.
He makes a slight effort to be affectionate to me, but I wonder if he’s just doing that to make me stop questioning him about the affair.
I have gotten back to my normal figure since child birth so he has stopped using my unattractiveness as an excuse for not feeling like sex. He now says it’s because I’m a mother and he can’t see me in the same (sexual) way. And that while I’m breastfeeding, the breasts are the baby’s, not for him, etc. And that it will just take time.
I pretty much forced him to sleep with me a couple of times, but I felt like he felt like he was cheating on the girlfriend!! He was totally distant, worrying about what we would do if we woke the baby (so he said).
I should hate him but I still love him.
I don’t want to split our family up.
But I suspect that one day I might just decide I have had enough, and that he doesn’t deserve me. But I really hope we can fix this before that.
As always, I’d love some advice.
(Should I take a leaf out of Anru’s book, have an affair and tell him??! Actually he seems to take me and my faithfulness for granted so much that I asked him what he would do in my shoes, and he said he thought he’d break up with me!TOTAL HYPOCRITE!
Japanic
Good to hear from you after a long while.
Your situation seems tough. Why do you love him? He seems awful.
There must be another reason why you put up with this.
i wonder if I can use another person’s name to post here…
Oh yes, I can!!
Be careful everyone…
“Religion also is a source for sooooooooo many hangups during sex, it’s not even funny anymore.”
All the Japanese and western/Japanese couples I know that have thriving, healthy sexual relationships are Christians. When I compare that to the many couples who are not, and have very messed up relationships, it’s pretty clear that Christianity (can’t speak for other religions) is conductive to healthy sex. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
“it’s pretty clear that Christianity (can’t speak for other religions) is conductive to healthy sex”
I had a girlfriend once who would scream “Thank you Jesus!” at the top of her lungs while in orgasm.
“i wonder if I can use another person’s name to post here…
Oh yes, I can!!
Be careful everyone”
Not me BTW. Be careful everyone.
Hii To All !
It was saddening but heartwarming to read those comments posted here.
I hope after all these times, things have improve for some of you.
Could only say that life is short and that we should try our best to pursue happiness.
Nobody has the ability to make us happy accept ourselves.
Sometimes, the best love you could ever give to another person is to set him/ her free.
Kayumochi,
Thanks for the comment.
Why do I still love my lying, cheating husband? Very good question. I can only say that we’ve been together a long time, and although he has been an absolute lowlife for the last 16 months, the other 80% of our time together I was generally really happy.
Can someone really change overnight, never to return??
Or is there a chance that he will look at me how he used to?
He says that he was always bending over backwards for me and making sacrifices for me, all those years, and that the real him is the selfish person he is right now, devoid of morals!
Gosh, writing this makes me feel like the situation is close to hopeless.
Basically I think the only real problem we had was the sexlessness particularly during pregnancy. I think that unless we can try for say a month or so, to see if us-with-regular-sex works or doesn’t, I will always feel like I could have done something more to save our family.
The girl he is sleeping with looks like she walked straight out of 109 in Shibuya (or perhaps a “Cabaret club“) and although they tell each other they love each other, I think it’s quite likely that it’s just about sex. (Am I just in denial?)
The other thing is that he is a few years older than me, and seems to be going through a mid-life crisis. Does anyone have any insite into what someone in that situation needs?
I’m thinking:
1. Try to get a sex-life back and if that doesn’t feel right and/or he still doesn’t end the affair, move on.
2. If 1 works but he still doesn’t end the affair (and I will know!) give him a choice to move elsewhere and make a fresh start, or end it (and sue her if I feel so inclined!).
I would love to hear everybody’s thoughts. Just your honest opinions would be great – I’m going to make my own judgement anyway and the beauty of anonymous postings like this is that you don’t have to take responsibility for actions based on your advice right?
First, let me say THANK YOU to all of you for your honest, moving, and inspiring messages (particularly “Kakui”). My sex life with my Japanese wife dropped one day to the next about a year after marriage and I was totally… I literally mean zero sex… for seven years! As she got older and paniced about not having a baby, she decided to have sex by appointment for two days a month. To her this was all normal. To me, it has been a vertitable hell. I heard about sexless marriages, but this is the first time I found this site and read through these blogs. I finally asked my wife for a divorce and have given her the papers to hanko. This after her refusal to go for couples therapy all these years. I tried every possible angle I could think of to try to understand and cope with her sexless “norm” –she is happy in the sexless sister role–, but it has turned me into a lopsided developmentally arrested tragic case… basically, it is a type of trauma… a trauma of neglect… and a form of abuse. In fact, in the Japanese courts, a man can claim a wife’s refusal of sex as a valid reason to grant the divorce. It is a form of DV… one of deprivation and neglect, and no hiding behind cultural excuses or denials gets around that. It has helped me very much to hear that others have gone through similar situations with their Japanese wives… I felt alone and like a freek despite what I was hearing. I was never the type interested in anyone else or an affair, because I loved (still do, and not co-dependent, don’t worry) my wife. But now that I am going to divorce… I want to make up for lost time! And since my wife wants time to plan how to get on with her life afterwards, it may take a few months… so I want to get a head start! If anyone out there knows of websites to meet sexless wives or batsu ichi or ni or san… or just a good site to meet someone new, please have mercy and let me know!
Developmental Arrest.
Have you learned nothing reading this forum?
You are getting rid of one sexless Japanese women to what? Find another? Are you a glutton for punishment?
Your next Japanese woman will do the same thing. She will pretend to like sex for a while, until she hooks/marries you and then you’ll have the same thing all over again.
If you are in Japan, I understand… have fun.. play the field… get it while the gettin’s good. Just DO NOT GET MARRIED!!
Myself, I would never again become romantically involved with a Japanese woman. Furthermore, I avoid most Asian women as well, as I don’t want to take any chances.
My current girlfriend is Polish, and she is INCREDIBLE! And I am incredibly happy…..
You are getting a second chance at love and life… DO NOT BLOW IT!!!
Developmental, I am with you. Like Heinrich said, have fun. Lots of fun. You have a lot of making up to do.
Good luck to you, Developmental Arrest and have fun. Thank goodness your wife didn’t get pregnant.
Wow 496 comments this is a real problem for a country.
There is so much wrong with this article that it isnt even funny!!! I am married to a Japanese man and have lived in Japan for about 10 years, i have to honestly say NOT all Japanese women have nice skin(seen lots of acne), NOT all age well(seen lots that look like redwood trees in wrinkles), NOT all are petit(seen some big ole girls) this Stupid stereotyping needs to stop!!! There are lovely women in all countries and not one country is better then another!!! I have had many japanes men after me, im thin (can fit into small size japanese clothing) and have been told i have the prettiest skin (alabaster) so to say only asain women have nice skin and are thin godesses…NOPE..sorry but my time in japan i have seen more average then beautiful and im not jealous. I have no problem saying if another woman is beautiful but sorry there is just to much fakeness,,,fake eyelashes, fake skin whitener, fake hair color…no originality what so ever!!!!!!! These foriegn men who say that japanese women are the only beautiful women in the world are the ones who can not get dates in their own countries and its the sad truth!!! I dont hate on any race of men and had many….so i have no hostility. I guess who put down what you cant have;)
Came across this:
Dear Sexorcist:
I’ve been happily married for 25 years. Except for the first five years, my wife and I have had no sexual relationship. Her drive is very low and I lost interest in trying to find ways to improve it. Now in our early 50s, we are both still fit, attractive people. However, I have missed the scent, touch and feel of a woman’s body and I am not getting younger. I wish to remain married and, no, it’s too far for the two of us to find our way back to a sexual relationship. She still has no drive and has expressed she misses nothing. I look at women my age in restaurants, grocery stores, church — everywhere — and wonder how many of them have no sexual outlet like me. I’m trapped in a sexless marriage. What can I do?
— Too Young to Shrivel Up
Dear Too Young,
Marry the woman you love and take a vow of sexual poverty? I’ve met with our editorial board and we’ve voted you Hell’s official spokesperson. Because any man looking for an eternity of emotional, sexual and physical abuse couldn’t find a better place for it than where you’re standing.
Yes, abuse. Deny touch long enough and it causes physical harm. Intimacy is oxygen. Cut it off and you turn your partner into a sexual asthmatic — chronically coughing and wheezing in his attempt to breathe you in. He’ll experience a tightening of the chest and eventually his lips (among other organs) turn blue.
Ladies, make no mistake, when you constantly reject your partner’s advances with some version of “I got clothes to fold,” men hear it as “I don’t love you.” Or want you. So, go away.
It’s hard not to turn the rejection against yourself. To believe it’s all or partly your fault, that you’re no longer attractive, that your manhood is useless, your desire is pointless and your needs unworthy.
Worse, in a sex-negative society like ours, the deprived partner is seen as the “problem spouse.” Why do you have to have it so often, the sex-negative schoolmarms ask. Why do you have to have it at all? Why are you harassing your revirginized wife? Can’t you manage your wicked desires in another way? Have you tried Sudoku?
Well, you’re not the bad guy in this. She is. Not because she’s lost all sexual desire (it happens), but because she’s happy to see you suffer. New rule: If you give your partner sexual asthma, you owe them an inhaler.
Meaning, if she can’t provide the intimacy you crave, she owes you her blessing to find it somewhere else. What that means is up to both of you. Is it don’t ask/don’t tell? Is it only when either of you are out of town? Is it only with other happily married women trapped in their own sexless marriages? Is it becoming a frequent groper at the Pink Pony?
One diversionary point: You say you’ve tried everything to raise her libido. I believe you. But her libido isn’t yours to raise. Has she tried? When chronic sexual listlessness hits, there’s usually a physiological reason. Has she gotten herself checked out? Has she read the incredibly helpful book, For Women Only: A Revolutionary Guide to Overcoming Sexual Dysfunction and Reclaiming Your Sex Life by the sister sex-therapist team of Laura and Jennifer Berman?
I’m going to assume she has and that nothing has worked. Which brings us back to my main point: It’s time to cut a deal. This will be tough for both of you. You value your marriage. You want to protect it, but the thought of going on without intimacy is unbearable. The relationship is too good to leave, but too bad to stay. It’s time to face an excruciating irony: The only way to save your marriage is to have an affair.
Life is an endless series of not-getting-what-you-wants occasionally interrupted by the got-what-I-needs. Monogamy at any cost?
I’ve been married close to 15 years to a Japanese woman, and there are so many variables involved that I don’t know whether it’s because she’s Japanese or some other reason, but if I had to do it over again there is no way I’d marry a Japanese woman again. I am biased based on my personal experience so I don’t want to say that it applies to others.
I met her while living in Japan, married, then came back to America and have been there ever since. Initially, sex was fine. Then slowly it became a ‘reward’ for something. Could be cooking dinner, buying her a present etc. I really resented that, but didn’t refuse for the obvious reason I was getting some.
Eventually, the situation became awful, and I contemplated divorce. Had a very short-term affair with a younger, unmarried Japanese woman who was the most sex-positive, creative lover I have ever had. On one overnight stay she gave me 6 blowjobs from evening to morning which still flabbergasts me, both from her doing it happily, and me being able to do it from my end. I contrast this with my wife attempting to give a blowjob for 30 seconds and stopping because her mouth hurt.
For whatever reason, there was no divorce, and no affairs since then. Sex frequency was sometimes better, sometimes nothing for months. By the way, wife does not kiss. I have kissed her many times, and she never kisses back. Doesn’t like to kiss. And the dead fish posture was pretty common then. How exciting.
Some years later came the kids. Well you can imagine how the sex dropped off from there. I was quite busy myself so just let it go. But when the time came for kid number 2 magically she wanted to have sex again. Figures.
I tried suggesting toys, lingerie, dvds etc to make things interesting, but she showed no interest whatsoever. This is a woman who says she never masturbated. When I suggested she try to learn about her body she said she had no interest and could/would not do it. One thing I did insist on is that I be on bottom, so as to make her less of a dead fish, and that has worked generally.
A few years ago I decided I definitely wanted a divorce (not just because of the sex incompatibility). But realizing that she could take the kids back to Japan as she wished, I bit my lip and did not go through with it.
Anyway, it’s now many years later, and a around a year ago I gave her an ultimatum. There needs to be sex at least once a week, or else I’m going to find it elsewhere. In addition, I told her that it was pointless for me to ask her, as there were always excuses, so she needed to ask me. That changed her for a while, until it decreased significantly again. However, having kids changes the situation for me and makes me afraid to do anything outside the marriage.
I went to a Japanese counselor a few months ago and when I told her my story, straight off the bat she encouraged me to get a divorce which I thought was funny as I thought she’d go on about working things out etc. I told her it wasn’t possible thanks to Japan not signing Hague and wanting to keep in contact with my kids.
Currently it’s gotten slightly better, but not ideal. Unless I can miraculously find a married woman in a similar situation I think I’m pretty much stuck like this. Being 40 I’m not getting any younger either so I think this is it.
We sleep in the same bed, but there is no skinship whatsoever. Besides being with the kids we spend almost no time together. I’m in one room, she in another. On the other hand I don’t want to imply that it’s awful either. She’s not an alcoholic or drug user, she does good work etc.
Anyway, that’s my story. If I had to do it again I’d marry an English speaking woman who I found a cultural connection with (among other things).
Doug – the details of your wife’s personality and situation are eerily similar to mine. We married in Japan 17 years ago, have 2 kids, live in California now. Never contemplated divorce because we get along well (although we are almost always in separate rooms as you describe and mostly just we discuss the kids/schedules), she’s a great cook/housekeeper, etc. I’m slightly older than you so due to declining testosterone level plus fatigue from dealing with kids, I’m not jonezing for sex as much as I was in earlier years. But I still desire her and here’s what works for us – about every two weeks I literally make an appointment for sex. (Once a week would be nice but it’s not realistic). I give her a couple days leadtime and let her choose the day. If I see she’s wiped out that night I’ll givea 24 hour repreive but never complete clemency. So when the sex finally takes place, it’s reasonably hot – no toys or lingerie sadly, but definitely she’s a willing participant. A few years back I used to “force the issue” 1-2 times per week and if she didn’t flat out refuse, I’d get a dead fish. I’ve realized that that quality trumps quantity. The funny thing is that since it’s on my calendar, I look forward to as much as I would a date with a hot chick when I was single. Take it easy.
When I lived in Japan I would meet foreign men who had recently returned to Japan with their Japanese wives. They all said the same thing, “We came back to give our marriage a second chance.” I thought they were lying as they seemed to me to return so they could bone other Japanese women but after almost 5 years back in the States after many years of marriage in Japan I am beginning to see things differently: it seems to makes less and less sense to be married to a Japanese woman here. I meet women here I have so much more in common with, who are so much easier to talk with … and who find me attractive.
I can see my future: “I came back to give my marriage a second chance.”
Kayumochi,
The mentality is, “It will get better when _______ “.
It will get better when we move back to Japan.
It will get better when we buy a house.
It will get better when we have more money.
It will get better when I lose enough weight.
Folks, I am here to tell you… IT NEVER GETS BETTER WHEN!
My current non-Japanese girlfriend cannot get enough of me, and if I am too tired to take care of business at night, she wakes me up promptly at 6 am gets the day started just right.
Japanese women are ideal wives for Japanese men and men who have little or no sex drive.
Thanks for the idea dude. I have read about that one before. As of right now it’s going good enough that I suppose I can’t complain, but I guess I lament the fact that she is so passive and uncomfortable with her body. I had the mistaken belief that Japan, due to not being a prudish country, would be more open to sex etc. For some Japanese women, I imagine that’s true, but not her. Recently I read over 50% of women use vibrators. Yet she won’t go near one. She doesn’t initiate anything in bed. I’m always, and I mean always the one to change positions etc.
In the end, I make the best of it, and it’s good, but it’s still pretty boring overall. And those are the good times. When she gets a chip on her shoulder and withholds sex, well, that’s another story.
I think in some of the recent posts there is an element of blaming the woman for being sex-negative, and I don’t think that’s fair. They are the way they are because society made them that way, there’s no point getting mad at them about that. And given that they were that way all along (ie, before any marriage), it’s doubly unfair.
Misdirected anger is only going to get in the way of working through the situation. Sure, they are causing you frustration, but the reality is that they are in a far worse situation than you, they just don’t know it. They don’t like sex because they’ve never had good sex. That’s truly sad.
James, just wonder how old you are, because you sound like you just graduated or are in college based on your comment, “They are the way they are because society made them that way” and “they are in a far worse situation than you, they just don’t know it.”
I’m old enough to know what I’m talking about, not that age has any bearing on the validity of what I said. More to the point I’ve been in a relationship with a woman just like your wife and I’ve thought the same thoughts that you are thinking. And I agree that the situation sucks. But it’s not all the woman’s fault. She was brought up to be the way she is. And no doubt the way you treat her also influences her behaviour.
Hey James, “she is the way she is” is a fallacy for those whose wives were hot and horny during the courtship/dating. I think it’s a conscious decision for a Japanese woman to sublimate her sexual desire after marriage and especially after children. Your girlfriend wasn’t much of a sexual being to start with, so “she is the way she is” makes more sense in your case. Apparently you didn’t like that “way” and you made a choice to end the relationship. Most of us visiting this forum fell in love with women who were wild in bed before marriage and got the old bait and switch. We definitely didn’t change anything about the way we treat them. They knew what they were getting into, but we didn’t. In my case, after 17 years of marriage and 2 kids my wife and I have made some compromises and things are good enough. For other guys whose wives are more stubborn, you have my empathy.
Dude
James,
I disagree with your statements. Further, I was married with a Japanese woman for 13 years so I speak from experience.
You wrote, ” And given that they were that way all along (ie, before any marriage), it’s doubly unfair.”
Before I was married to my lovely ex-bride, we had sex quite frequently. After marriage, that all stopped. When I asked WHY she never told me that she had zero interest in sex, she said, “I knew that if I didn’t have sex with you, you would leave me.”
But once she married me and had a child with me, she was confident I would never divorce her.
She was wrong.
James wrote, “I’m old enough to know what I’m talking about, not that age has any bearing on the validity of what I said.”
Well James, when my 8 year old tells me that there can be world peace if we all just hold hands I don’t doubt that she thinks she knows what she’s talking about either, so you’ll excuse me if your statements come across like an over-eager college student who has taken one too many female studies courses.
Now that you’ve clarified that you’ve been in a similar situation, that changes things. Although it seems to me like you aren’t talking about a Japanese woman you were with. And since this is a Japanese forum after all, I’m not sure how relevant your “insights” are here.
Even disregarding your cultural analysis of the situation, judging by the previous posters situation as well as my own, sex BEFORE marriage was far different than later on. And there is no mention of anger towards the wife, but rather a disappointment with the end result.
married and no sex , just sleep
To commemorate the fact that our most popular article on stippy.com the truth behind “Sexless Japan” has received a whopping 500+ comments and more traffic than any other article we have written, we’ve decided to research for a follow-up article – and we need your help to make it an insightful one!
We have tracked down a local marriage/sex counselor. She (yes! she) is Japanese but foreign educated and – get this – specializes in sexless marriages!! We are pretty excited. But before the interview (which is next Wednesday, June 16th 2010) we need your questions, so that we have a full list of topics which our readership needs answered! Hurry, visit the article, and leave your questions there! Here is the link:
http://www.stippy.com/japan-culture/sexless-followup-we-need-your-help-to-interview-japanese-sex-counselor/
First of all, thanks to everyone who commented. It’s been very insightful. But I am wondering about the classification of regular sex, sexlessness, etc. I have been going out with a Japanese girl for 3 years now and will get married soon. And we have a lot of sex! You wouldn’t believe me if I told you. Never had so much sex with anyone from any country (and I’ve tried a few). It’s very interesting what you guys have to say, but I think it would be easier to understand, if you could specify how much sex is no sex. Is it 3 or 4 times a day, once a day, once a week, once a month?
Hmm,..I think I have a very good relationship and incredible (monogamous) sex life. A bit worried about some of the posts on this page, though. Some of you say that you had incredible sex lives with your partner before marriage. How incredible? numbers help (forgive me, I’m an engineer). I have talked to my girlfriend about how married life might suck as we might not have as much sex. And we are resigned to the fact that it might be true but we can’t even imagine having sex less than 2 times a day (morning & night). And I believe her. Am I being totally naive? What possible cultural or social reason could she have? I have not felt any pressure from her to get married and she is turning 25 next year. I am aware that there is a slight cultural tendency for girls to be sexually conservative. i.e. respectable girls=good family background=less sex. But this was easily cured with a couple of weeks of sex when we started going out.
The cynicism is so thick, taking a bite of it could give me a heart attack!!
So, from what I gather, the general trend of Japanese Women is that none of them really aspire for anything (Citing, “I want to be a grandmother!”), they don’t really know how to improve the human condition, they see no need for constant self-improvement or self-growth, they get what they want from men, then callously kick the men to the curb as their whipped others cling for dear life to her like she’s a mother, and so perpetuates the cycle.
How dismal. How disappointing. And here I understood Buddhism (indirectly referring to the Japanese, as being primarily Buddhist) was about “breaking the cycle of suffering.” Maybe I can bring that point up and call out a Yamato-Nadeshiko on her bullshit by pulling that card on her.
So screwed up!! The boisterous western man in me wants to bust in, sweep her away, and re-educate her on how to enjoy life! The more patient side, however, remembers what… wow it’s too far up for me to scroll, mitaboy said it, maybe? “You can only coach the willing?”
As I chipped away at the rough of this forum, I managed to mine a few gems, which could ease this cynicism. One being that what’s important is the never-ceasing quest for self-improvement, and how that drive for the “Cultivated More,” or the enrichment of the human experience must be present in both partners. I make it a point to Love what I do, Live in what I do, and Learn in everything I do, and that I stop when I die. Looking at it from a certain perspective, we as humans no longer have the potential to love, learn, and live when we inevitably stop breathing. If we do not live, love, and learn (and all the while, laugh!) then are we not emulating death? We would be, as my good idol Kenshiro always said, “Already dead” (“mo shinde iru”) (sans the exploding heads).
I digress, where was I going with that? Oh yeah! The Japanese Women. Is it hard to find such women with a vivaciousness and lust for life itself? Ones that want more for themselves than to satisfy their egos? Ones that have a curiosity for everything around them that cannot be quenched (especially with sex!)? From what I have studied about Japanese culture so far, PROBABLY NOT! They consider any form of openness to be aberrant behavior!!
Something is definitely not right!! The sex is amazing for the first few years? Then goes away? If it’s amazing, it means that they DO know how to enjoy themselves, and they DO know how to please… but later on CHOOSE not to!! From what everyone has said, it seems that these women sure enjoyed trying to get arousal from a man! But then, if it all went away, wouldn’t that be dishonest? And isn’t honesty the (intended) basis for marriage? This sounds almost as bad as walking in on your fiancee cheating on you– on your wedding day!! To learn that all of it was a lie… yikes!
Yes, I find Japanese women alluring, just because I find them to be beautiful. I can’t really say why, but I find them to be aesthetically pleasing.
I’d really like to have the experience of dating a Japanese. If I cannot love it, or live it, then at least, I’d like to learn it.
Should I bother? Or, would I be better off finding a westernized Japanese? Or am I really better off with a future staring stoically into the evening twilight, alone, lamenting my success as a lonely bachelor?
@ShedTheGreen
I once had sex with a Japanese woman who was engaged to be married. She was breathtakingly beautiful. The man she was engaged to and later married was what an average Japanese woman considers “a catch”: stolid of average looks and with a secure job. She on the other hand had a certain elan, a joie de vivre. When I pointed out the difference between the two to her, she shrugged her shoulders and said something about they were both going to get old anyway so what did it matter. Practicality and not making sense of life (and certainly not honesty) tops the concerns of a Japanese woman.
ShedtheGreen:
You asked, “Should I bother?”
DATE a Japanese woman, and have a wonderful romantic time.
DO NOT EVER MARRY A JAPANESE WOMAN! Dating and marriage are different.
Dating is fun and romantic and full of life.
Marriage is lifeless and waiting for death.
As long as you keep this mantra in your head, you will be finer than a frog hair.
Forget my wisdom, and you will pay dearly.
As an aside, I’d advise you have your Japanese frolic (get it out of your system), then find a nice Brazilian, Colombian or Polish woman.
I’m interested to read the follow up article with advice from a marriage counsellor. I really hope it’ll go some way to showing up the ridiculous statements these comments are full of.
Things like “Never marry a Japanese women”… I’m sure there is some truth that more than a few Japanese women regard sex as unimportant or change after marriage (as happens in many other countries too), but regardless of your personal experiences, there’s no need for such brutally generalised and culturally insensitive remarks.
@heinrich
I was always from the school of thought that dating and marriage are indistinguishable save for two features:
1) The consolidation of assets for a joint investment/venture, which leads to
2) The legitimization of children (which ARE the investment).
Investment of what? Well, there’s only so much a single person, or pair for that matter, can do to improve the human condition, why not ensure that someone can pass the torch on to both continue that work, and simultaneously putting someone right-hearted on this planet? Okay, given, raising children is a gamble. But, citing kayumochi’s expression, I have a certain Joie de Vivre that I want to enjoy sharing with someone, and likewise have their experience from the same premise of such a demeanor to be shared with me.
Going off on a tangent, then bringing it back, I learned that love is very much like best-case-scenario capitalism: You build your credit and assets, then invest for greater return, and repeat the process. Share these assets in a joint venture for an even greater return yet! Never invest while in debt, because then you will be scrambling to fill a void borne from one’s initial bad decisions. Never deal in debt, or others will be dragged down when you fail to deliver. Too many people being dragged down in debt causes an entire market to crash.
The Joie de Vivre is especially a must when it comes to ANY woman I date (preferably for a potential mate!), but of course, basic personality constructs would have to be compatible with my own, too. If I see these qualities as an asset, and abundance, that the Japanese woman has, and is willing to share, give freely to me, and co-invest this love for the purpose of enriching life, you’d damn well believe I’d pursue.
Metaphorically speaking, why typify ALL Japanese Women as holding and dealing only in ‘debt’ when it comes to their capacity of what they can offer in a relationship? Wouldn’t that just be blatant racism? Given, even with your experiences, you hold merit in what you share. But, I still wish I had temporary administrative access just so that I can put a disclaimer to your words, Heinrich, adding “Do what you’ve always done, get what you always get.” You really haven’t given any indication that you’ve changed your method, or yourself for that matter, in how you went about pursuing the affections of Japanese Women, for sake of trying to make something work. And by this, I mean before the fact, not after the fact, where expectations are already cemented in a spouse’s head as to what kind of life to expect.
Part of me DOES in fact heed the words of yours, Heinrich, in that I am now more alert to the social imagination as it pertains to Japanese Women. Such a terrible condition! But if anything, I am more inclined to use this new-found insight as a filter by which I could separate the chaff from the wheat, so to speak (in this case, the rice from the stalk?). Now that I have your input, I want to hear from the others of this page to see what their experiences say as to exactly what kind of capacity Japanese women differ from one another.
I am sure there is a way to psychologically profile these “typical” Japanese dead-fish types, but by that same token, logic says that there would be, in this case, a way to tell if any one of them stands out (or wants to, for that matter!).
In closing on this statement, wisdom is invaluable when exercising discernment in any relationship, Japanese or otherwise (I speak from experience, of almost taking the wrong woman to the altar!). As long as my characteristic for self-improvement and love of life is mirrored, even improved upon, by a Japanese woman, then the enriching experience is what counts. At least, for me
Green – nevermind the sex, I recommend you do not marry a Japanese women because I’ve never met one that thinks so deeply as you. But that’s another subject …
I take that back. You sound like an enlightened, spiritual young man and I was being unnecessarily cynical. With your positive outlook you will find a soulmate who shares your zest for life and focus on self improvement … and there’s no reason she can’t be Japanese. Shine on!
@Dude
Thank you for your words of encouragement! I wish you well in your endeavors, as well. My experiences of reading this page conjures up something I read a while ago:
“Man has three ways of acting wisely: Firstly, on Meditation, This is the Noblest; Secondly, on Imitation, This is the easiest; and Thirdly, on Experience: This is the bitterest.” – Confucius
While I proudly tout that I spend ample time in contemplation and reflection of my life condition, I still make it a point to let others know that I also take the time to study others. Experiences have their part, but then again, “The voice of reason need not be so shrill.” (No need to stick your hand in fire to know that it burns.)
I truly mean to express that all those who have read this page, and those who will read this in the future will find what they are looking for, particularly with Japanese women.
Whatever may come, may the factors of their society evolve for the betterment and enrichment of their lives.
Thanks, Dude, I will shine on. Feel free to light your candle here if it behooves you. ^_^
Hi everyone, just a reminder, we interview the Japanese sex counsellor next week Wednesday, Japan time, which means you need to get us your questions for her by Tuesday for most of the rest of the world. If you have anything interesting to ask, visit the link below, and leave your questions there in the comments!
http://www.stippy.com/japan-culture/sexless-followup-we-need-your-help-to-interview-japanese-sex-counselor/
Married 8 years, sexless for 6. Addicted to sex with cheap Chinese whores who, it must be said, are adept at making me feel happier and more appreciated in our few minutes together than my workshy, whinging spouse, who occasionally tosses out a megaton threat to return to Japan with our child and cut me out of his life. Desperately wanted to believe that it was not a cultural thing but my wife’s particular baggage. Now I’m not so sure.
It keeps on going & going & going… This thread, I mean. It really is amazing! I posted a few times here 3 years ago, from 30 March 2007 (Post# 30) to 26 July 2007 (Post# 127), then left one brief comment a few months ago on 19 January 2010 (Post# 479), but I have continually come back and read the others’ posts. Sorry I didn’t get back soon after January to give an update, as I had promised, but I’m sure you understand that one has got to be in the right sort of mood to write about these things. I add a bit now, though I don’t have time at the moment to write much.
I’m looking forward to seeing something posted about that interview with a Japanese “sexless counselor”, but after reading the questions that were submitted, it seems that others covered the bases well. I would, however, have liked to ask about attitudes towards affairs in this context. I don’t mean whether or not the intimacy-starved spouse is justified in having an affair. (Please note that when I use the term “intimacy”, I am talking at least a as much about emotional intimacy as physical. Of course, I include open, honest communication as part of that, as well as verbal affection, physical affection, and sex.) When I mention attitudes towards affairs here, I’m thinking of those who deny intimacy to their own spouses while putting little to no effort into trying to learn anything more than they believe they already “know” and to make things better, but who nevertheless seem to fall easily into an intimate relationship with someone else. I’m sorry to say this — very, very sorry — but I am talking about someone like my own, dear wife.
Just over 2 years ago, after I spent the couple years or more before that trying to do everything I could to get our relationship back on track — and a just a few months following the Christmas when she wrote to me, telling me how much she appreciated me trying so hard for so long, and apologizing for not trying herself, but promising that the new year, 2008, would be different — I logged into my home computer just before leaving my office to back up some files. I had just set up the screen sharing, which I had never used before, I clicked on that to run a program not he home computer. I was, however, surprised to see the email program open. Thinking I must have left it open, I was about to quit it, when I realized that someone was writing at that moment. It was a moment before I realized that I was viewing my wife’s account, not mine, but by then, I had already caught a glimpse of what she was writing about…
She was writing to her “lover”. He was Korean — yes, my wife had caught the “Korean wave” like a lot of other Japanese women her age (and older!). She had a good friend here who was Korean, a woman, who had moved back to Seoul about 6 months earlier. My wife had gone to visit her 2 months before my discovery, and while there, had met this man. According to her, after that, they just started corresponding as friends by email, but within a few weeks, after phone calls as well, it grew into something more. When I discovered this, they had never been physical, but I watched as my wife wrote to him about his upcoming visit in less than 2 months. She wrote how she could feel his heart for her, and how she hoped he could feel here. She said how she hoped that when they meet, they could do so “as lovers”, and that she could seem shy then, but if he takes the lead, she will be happy “to follow”. She also told him how she had been able to leave work early that day and check out hotels near her office that were “close but not too close”. She wrote how we don’t have “love hotels” in America, wondering if South Korea has them. She couldn’t wait until July, when he would visit. She signed her email with what I later learned are the Korean words for love.
I’ll have to fill you in on more later, but for now, I will just tell you that I ended up offering her forgiveness, if she would, of course, break off contact with him and truly focusing on our marriage, on at least trying to “rediscover” her love for me — romantic, passionate love. She agreed, and the pattern of the past 2 years became set, a pattern that is too much like the old one… Give just enough to keep hope alive in me,…Then start lowering it down little by little till she goes below the minimum to keep be placated. Finally, I reach a point where I had enough. We talk. She renews her promises. I have hope once again. Then,…
Over the past few years, I have read and learned so much that I didn’t know before — or that I sort of knew, but I didn’t know how it might apply to my wife and me. Over these past 2 years, she has resisted even trying to learn more about love and relationships. We tried counseling after she resisted that tooth & nail, but even once she agreed, she seemed to view it as a big favor for me — not something for “us”. On the way to our first appointment, she said, “I hope you don’t expect me to say anything.” She also made it clear that if I mentioned her affair (her “emotional affair”), she would not go back to counseling at all. I took a gentle approach to that — as I’m sure I have too often done — but at the time, it seemed like the best course was to ease off and let her get used to the idea and the experience of counseling. We went for about 6 months, but when our counselor had to change schedules and we couldn’t meet with her at the times available, my wife refused even to consider anyone else.
Man! This is too long! And I’ve got to run! I’ll try to just add one more thing….
I don’t think my wife is a bad person who doesn’t care about hurting me. She has, however, convinced herself that one of our chief problems is that I am “too sensitive”. She might be right at times, but that idea basically gives her an excuse to hurt me since in her mind, the problem isn’t herself, it’s my reactions. But even though that can be true in some circumstances, I think the fundamental problem is that she is emotionally immature and extremely close-minded. That then feeds into her stubbornness. She is not open to new ideas, to learning new things or trying to do things differently. She doesn’t have time for that, she still says — which often seems true, but is what she was telling me while finding time for someone else.
There are some signs that things are looking up lately… but it’s not the first time. If we didn’t have 4 kids, this would have ended a long time ago. I do love her very, very much, and there are many times that we are happy together. Still, she still communicates with me about anything relating to our relationship as little as she can get away with. She thinks I live in the past too much, and just need to move on and forgive –as she has forgiven me for my drinking and such (though I don’t think she really has forgiven me).
I too want to put that affair in the past, but I know that she was not completely honest with me afterwards. Six months after that awful discovery, I discovered that she was using another email account — this during the time when we had agreed that we would each be completely open with each other since repairing trust was so important. I gently asked her if she had another account, then looked into her eyes as she lied to me, angrily denying she had any such thing. When I repeated the email address she had, she apologized and said she was using it only to communicate with her female friend in Seoul because they had long had email problems when she used her regular account. She tearfully apologized and begged me to forgive her, but assured me it was all 100% innocent. I told her I could not forgive her right away and that it would take an even longer time before I could start to trust her again, but I said that I would try — if she would. She swore that that’s what she wanted and that that’s what she would do.
One week after that, after a few days of feeling my hope renewed, she seemed to suddenly slip right back to her old ways. I might be a fool, but I’m not totally foolish, so instead of taking her at her word that everything was fine and that I was just being too sensitive, I checked on her on the computer. I caught her red-handed as she was opening up a new email account with a username that I later realized was Japanese Romaji for “secret”.. Then, I saw her type in an email address, the username for which was the same name as the guy she had supposedly had that relationship with — the “emotional affair” (“never physical”, she insisted) that she had cut off suddenly 6 months earlier… I waited till later that night, then confronted her by first asking her if she had yet another secret account. Again, she looked into my eyes and lied so convincingly that I might have believed her if I had not had hard evidence to the contrary. I responded by sitting down next to her in bed, opening up my laptop so she could see the screen, then writing a letter to that guy, expressing my love, heartbreak, and anger while tears streamed down my face.
She begged me to forgive her again… saying… that she had been planning to tell me all about the new email account, to write it down without he password and to put it in an envelope to give me for Christmas, just a few days away. The guy? Well… she said that it was a different guy, just a co-worker from her company’s Seoul office with whom she and her boss were friendly! She said that she and the guy she had been involved with, who’s name was actually different, had used her co-workers name to help cover up her correspondence with him when she wrote to him at work. She had known her Seaoul colleague for some time, she said, and had always liked his name, a name that was, however, very common in Korea — a sort of Korean “John Smith”.
I gave her another chance….
Sorry, but I’ve got to run! And I’m sorry this is sooooooo long! I’ll add more to this if anyone wants to know. For now, call me a fool, if you like — love often does that to us. With 4 kids, however, so many years invested, and a determination not to let my pride get in the way, I think risking being made the fool again & again was my only choice. Things seem better now, and I do not believe that any sort of affair continues, but…
Oh! And one more thing! I hate K-pop and all those crappy Korean dramas!
I’ve been thinking about this for a while, and what I now realize is that I do not love her, I will never love her, but I am realistic enough to understand that I cannot get divorced due to the kids, and consequently try to make the best of it, by being helpful and nice in order to have the best home life for everyone. And as a guy, I am able to separate love and having sex with my wife no problem. Maybe my wife does not love me, and being a woman, is unable to do that. But we do have sex more than in the past, so maybe it’s just a convenience thing for both of us, and women just want less sex at a certain age regardless.
To sum it up, although I have great kids, a great home, great neighbors and friends and so on, in the end I facked up by marrying this woman. I was too immature and naive to realize this back then, and I’m dealing with the consequences for years afterward. It’s not the end of the world, but it makes me depressed nonetheless. And there’s nothing a counselor can do to resolve this, because ultimately it is I who no longer loves her, and no longer wants to love her.
When I posted earlier, I noticed my stance on the issue as it would pertain to me. I already expressed what kind of measures I would take to keep such a thing from happening to me, by really investigating the content of character for a prospective mate. Yes, I really enjoy emotional maturity in my women, so perhaps I should find one that’s a counselor or psychologist? At least they know what they’re doing. xD
But now, I want to focus on others. Perhaps there is something else that I can offer to others in this page with my view and paradigm.
@kakui
Kakui, remember, “WWKD (What Would Kenshiro Do?)”
Kenshiro would keep his pimphand strong. Be a TOUGHBOYTOUGHBOYTOUGHBOYTOUGHBOY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0umpeN2uJbY
Instead of being “just upset,” start laying down consequences. Let your woman know that you aren’t enacting these consequences because you are mean, but you are doing so to keep yourself protected, and to let her know that she hurt you. Tell her, “You know what? You’re free to flirt with whomever. The choice is yours. But, you have no choice in the consequences. You are married to me… you have a responsibility, to both myself and yourself. Not to mention, the children.” She has to WANT to be happy with you. If she can’t be, then there’s no real way for you to be happy with her. It’s a case where you two have essentially united your assets, liabilities, and character. If she cannot be happy with herself for being with you, then you cannot be happy with yourself for being with her. Who WOULD be happy being with someone who constantly tries to cheat??
Otherwise, “Keep you burning” and stay sensitive, but cry manly tears with a stoic face. Like Ken. http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/cit_FotNS_-_manly_tears.png
Or, What Would Psychiatrist Do? Psychiatrist would pick at her every flaw, and use those as grounds for her hospitalization. If she cannot appreciate the freedom that your love for her brings, show her what lack of freedom in a totalitarian institution is like. Show her that you have invested yourself in her, and like any investment, when there is a failure to deliver, there is a consequence… A non-negotiable consequence. Make her see the folly of not changing facets of her character -for her own sake-. In fact, people who refuse to change in spite of their lives changing around them is a sign of an unstable mind. Remember: Doing the same thing, expecting a different result, is the definition of insanity. This applies to you expecting something different from her without laying down your pimphand, and her expecting something different from her life, without changing (rather, maturing) who she is.
It really is a choice in what makes a person happy. If people want it, they will change… if they are aware of that. It’s not unethical to use a scare tactic so that someone gains awareness. Sages have been doing that to people seeking wisdom since time immemorial!!
“An artist uses lies to paint the truth” – V for Vendetta
I digress. LAY DOWN THE LAW. She is completely within her power to change her definition of happiness. Life is about LEARNING what “happy” is, not DECLARING it! If she “can’t” feel happy being with you, then she doesn’t -want- to be happy with you. Treat the situation as if this was the case, and then things may change…
Moving on, What Would Info-Tech Do? The Info-Tech would justify use of technology to bring her stupidity to light. Incriminate her, time and time again. Hammer the sense of -wrong- in what she’s doing into her very core, and show her how much she is hurting both you and the family. Don’t call her selfish, SHOW her she’s selfish!
If there is no effect, then you need to note something: She doesn’t care if she’s caught. She’s putting up a facade for you. But if that’s the case, you need to ask her, “If you don’t care if you get caught or not, why do you bother trying to pass yourself off as caring?!” Call her out on her inconsistencies. For all you know, she could be lying to herself about something! Whether it could be happy with you, or to be happy with someone else, somehow, somewhere, someway, sometime ago, she has started to lie to herself, and hasn’t stopped.
CALL HER OUT. From what I do with my Japanese friends, they HATE it when they get called out on something. But in doing so, I have brought both me and my friends together, because they know that despite their flaws, I can accept them…
This being said, there are three important things, to summarize:
1) Flaws can be accepted. Lying about them, and the feelings about them, are not.
2) Happiness is a learning process. Learning is about applying changes overtime. No change->no learning->no happiness.
3) Freedom is wonderful. The consequences are not. Awareness gives guidance.
That being said, I’m only going for a Japanese woman who takes her character to her job, as an asset to personal development, like a psychologist or some sort of health worker!
It sucks my marriage is like this initermicy is only a kiss and a hug
then sleep
we have good communication though
Reading the words of all of the delusional individuals above, it makes me cringe to think the writers seem to suggest that sexlessness is a uniquely cultural, and specific to Japan.
Have you read about the prevalence of sexless marriages in North America and Europe? How about the wide spread impotency (physically and mentally) of Western men and the sexually detached women?
As a counselor at a marriage clinic for the past 25 years, Caucasian couples are much more susceptible to sexlessness than East Asian couples (Chinese, Japanese and Korean) at the rate of 3:1. Many signs point to stress and Western diet (high fat and salt content, refined sugars and carbs). However, medical questionnaires seem to prove otherwise; with the majority of Caucasian women citing three major reason:
1. Husband’s lack of desire, premature (under the age of 45) impotency or ED.
2. Lack of pleasure in lovemaking. Lack of fulfillment with partner.
3. Lack of libido in self due to work, home, and family stress.
It’s easy to point at criticize others using simple statistical data, and then use personal rants/bad experience to further “support” the data. That’s classic.
@Catherine
You categorizing us as “delusional individuals” makes me question you “bedside manner” doctor.
mike:
Yes, there is whole page of them who thinks the problem of “sexlessness” is prevalent only in Japan or affect specifically to Japanese men and women. The writers don’t seem to accept that the problem may have to do with the writers (mostly men complaining a lack of sex) themselves. How many of the above think they are hot studs and question their girlfriend/wife for not being “receptive” to their requests? Who to say that the guys aren’t slobs or simply not good lovers themselves? I know, let’s blame my spouse, since he/she is Japanese….isn’t that what the survey say anyway?
Therefore, I stand by my choice of words, delusional individuals.
US national statistics:
15 to 20 percent of couples have sex no more than 10 times a year, which experts define as a sexless marriage. — Newsweek
20 to 30 percent of men and 30 to 50 percent of women say they have little or no sex drive. — USA Today
Married couples say they have sex an average of 68.5 times a year. That’s slightly more than once a week. — Newsweek (that’s lower than Singapore)
Don’t kid yourself, sexless marriage is a WORLD WIDE phenomenon. Please educate yourself.
@Catherine
Did you happen to notice the title of this thread? Do you know the theme of this website? Statistics from the USA aren’t particularly relevant here.
If you have no Japan-related experience Catherine you have little or nothing to add to this discussion. And your name calling isn’t appreciated.
Y’all be postin’ in a troll thread!!
Mike, everyone… you all got trolled by Catherine.
Despite her purported “Professional Standing,” she still didn’t have the capacity to understand that this discussion was -specifically- geared to understanding the sexuality (or in this case, the lack thereof) of Japanese Women in a relationship at a certain stage, while taking the sociocultural pressures they experience into account.
No problem, folks. Either she is a fraud, or just a troll who is butthurt that she found so many non-japanese males who are choosing to date foreign rather than domestic.
Shame on you! A counselor in a marriage clinic for 25 years, and you still couldn’t see the concentration of this thread!! It’s disappointing to know that someone without the ability to properly observe a situation is trying to solve the marriages of conflicting couples. My faith in humanity has just dipped.
Thank you, Catherine. You trolled me, too. I hope you’re happy.
Wow, so many angry men. Angry at women for giving life to them and their greatest joys. Angry because we don’t understand a guy who vomits at baby poop but wants to lick my ass crack? I’m sure if you were nice to your wives, gave a back massage, complimented her beauty and talked dirty in her ear you would find a willing wife in your bed. I know my awesome hubby did last night! Try not being a baby and giving something of yourself to your wife and kids, not just your money, you might find that she not only earns her own paycheck, takes care of you and your kids, but is also a sex goddess in the sack!
@Julia, Catherine or whatever you are calling yourself today,
Had you actually read through this thread you would have discovered actual posts by women who are frustrated with their Japanese husbands.
For goodness sake, “a guy who vomits at baby poop but wants to lick my ass crack”? You hang out with some pretty strange guys Julia. I can see some negative views of men come from. But if you want to criticise the guys who have posted their stories here, you should refer to their stories, and not things that have happened to you in the past.
Catherine – “It’s easy to point at criticize others using simple statistical data, and then use personal rants/bad experience to further ‘support’ the data”. Indeed it is. Please point out how you are doing more than this yourself. It’s pretty funny that you’re telling us to educate ourselve despite displaying absolutely no relevant knowlege yourself.
Everyone knows that sexlessness is not unique to Japan. What you probably won’t know (unless you have actually been in an intimate relationship with a Japanese person) is that Japanese attitudes to sex are very different to Western attitudes. And this can cause big problems in inter-cultural relationships. The opinion I have formed after reading this thread is that no-one knows much about addressing those problems. Even if you forget the complication of the inter-cultural aspect, I don’t think there’s very much useful information available about improving communication about sex.
Japan is full of bitter, unattractive white women with chips on their shoulders. Why they come to Japan is a mystery to me.
To mike who says:
Japan is full of bitter, unattractive white women with chips on their shoulders. Why they come to Japan is a mystery to me.
What about all the ugly white men with a chip on their shoulder such as your prejudiced self?
It works both ways.Why do you come here?
@Catherine/Julia/Susu and whatever you will call yourself in the future -
This thread was free of trolls until you showed up, a thread that has been useful to not a few people in many ways. Please leave.
@mike
>>>>@Catherine/Julia/Susu
=>>>@Troll
Fixed.
Mike
Just eat shit and shut up ; we gaijin women are sick of imbeciles like you in Japan.
Came to this site by chance. Interesting, thought provoking and a often sad read. I have a different take on this and I think Catherine makes an important point: Like her I have difficulties to agree that sexless marriages are specific to Japan and to the Japanese character.
I know, I know, the numbers…. so what’s wrong with the numbers? First of all, Japan is an aging society, by now probably the one with the least young people worldwide. The group of people over 60 is to my knowledge higher than everywhere else. That will make an impression on the statistics. People, not only Japanese, have less frequent sex the older they get. I would consider that as normal. So comparing Japan with for example Thailand which has a much higher percentage of young people will not be conclusive.
Second, people from different societies and cultures will respond different to questionnaires. That’s nothing new, it has been mentioned many times. Just ask an American and a Japanese after foreign language proficiency. Western guys especially tend to inflate their sexual prowess while Japanese may ‘underreport’ it, after all it is a hazukashii subject and really nobodies business to ask.
Third. For most foreigners here Japan is the first and only foreign culture they experience(d) over a longterm period (say 5 years plus). Most foreigners here don’t have long term living experience in other countries/cultures besides their own and Japan. This is why Japan is put on an isolated pedestal. There is simply a lack of context, a lack of experience which makes Japan stick out singularly. If you compare for example the situation of marriage and sex to Thailand, Japan seems like a paradise. I think that the often obsessive focus on the ‘Japaneseness’ of this subject is part of the problem.
Myself? I had 3 long term relationships in Japan and all were very different. This sounds probably patronizing, but from where I sit in my older age some of the problems seem partly a confusion of priorities. If one is in the twenties and thirties there seems no difference between want and need. Most of the guys in above posts write that they ‘need’ sex. Well, there is relief on the horizon: with sixty plus and a fulfilled romantic history I don’t NEED it anymore, I just have sex when I WANT it and with someone I know it will be lovely. That is very attractive to my partners: I am not demanding, no arm-twisting, they are not under duress and can relax – with or without sex. If you run away – they run after you.
Taio – agree 100%
This discussion has depressed me….I feel as though my marriage is not conforming. Yoki and I have been married 2 years, following a 3 year relationship, sex life has not changed a bit from before, and is plentiful and fun, possibly more than I can handle (although Yoko is probably more passive in her approach than my previous 6 or 7 nationalities). Perhaps the difference was I am now 37. I love my wife, I am sure she loves me and our lives are as vibrant as the day we met, albeit, we are both a little older, slower and grayer now. We do equal mounts of chores and play more or less equal roles in day-to-day life, which I think is key…
How many of those who married Japanese women, did so under the impression that she is a “good wife” – my housework will be done, she will look stunning for eternity and will wait at home patiently with her legs open. Only too frequently here there have been quotes of “I only get sex now if I do the washing up”….!! I have struck a very similar outlook amongst ex-pats in SEA; often chaps with little going for themselves thinking they were on to a good thing, with their bar of expectation set very high and their expected contributions being very low.
Perhaps a little tangentially, I wonder how many of the posters here are American? I don’t mean this in a derogatory sense, but in my time in Asia (Korea, Laos, Thailand and Japan) I have always felt that US born ex-pats had the most trouble REALLY fitting in with the local culture. This is a massive generalisation of course, but there was a much higher latent “their culture is not right” attitude to any cultural differences, with an emphasis on the differentness in a negative way. Americans are outgoing, are direct and have many other qualities deeply engrained….unfortunately these qualities aren’t really looked on as qualities in East Asian culture and potentially set up a clash. Cultural imprinting and hangups are as much a Western issue as they are a Japanese one.
Makes you wonder…if Japanese men refrain from having sex with their wives to eliminate the chance of being cuckolded.
My Japanese wife has a Japanese friend who has cut out sex for her American husband. She was quite blunt with my wife and told her they just don’t do it anymore. I met the husband only once and he seemed a bit controlling of her and my thought was that this was her way of getting back at him.
I just stumbled upon this thread. Wow. Just wow. Very interesting – it’s got everything, from pain and pathos to hope and change. Thoughtful guys. Creepy guys. Guys I’d wanna have a beer with. Considered, balanced opinions. Troll blasts. A very few women. And to round it off, the odd Jr. Hi. Skool kid wandering in from time to time spraying graffiti and trying to look Kewl.
Lemme tell you guys. It happens on the other side of the fence as well. I’m a Western woman married to a Japanese guy. Absolutely no sex once I got preggers – over 10 years ago. I tried everything – sexy underwear, romantic stuff, kinky stuff, etc. No go. Devastated – was I so unattractive? Then I despaired. Then I got angry. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
The anger was the worst. It ate at me. Anger at him, but mostly at myself – all the signs were there before the marriage. I’d heard the stories. Buy hey – I’d already been here 10 years we married – that sort of thing wouldn’t happen to MOI!
I lost all confidence in myself. I couldn’t MAKE him attracted to me. I began to hate him. But by letting the anger overtake me I destroyed myself. I should have just had affairs – way back when there were a few feelers. (And one horrible clumsy encounter – shudder.) But it just felt bad. I couldn’t – but the lack of intimacy and the rejection made me into a bitter, unhappy person. (Now, of a certain age – ugh – gag – I couldn’t imagine taking my clothes off in front of someone.)
I wanted to divorce, but somehow couldn’t. He’s a sweet man and we used to explore and laugh a lot together. He said he loved me. He was a great, caring father. And of course the fact that (AFAIK) no foreign parent has ever gotten custody of child in this land of primitive no-joint-custody laws…well, that was what kept me here.
Now I see the light at the end of the tunnel. Only 10 more years til our lovely child is an adult with a life to live. And hell, Japan is even (possibly) sign the Hague Convention. Still no joint custody though.
Would I do it all again? Ummm…probably not.
@ Just kill me now;
I am on your side,all of what you’ve said done it,geez I dont wanna rape the guy,but I felt like I was doing it.Until I gave up and just go with the flow of life,and I pondered it isnt bad at all,If I dont think about Life isnt just about sex so maybe its ok…cheers
do not waste your time.ASIAN girls(Japanese girls,Chinese girls,Korean girls ) are sexless.to marriage to these countries girls are useless.they are not good in relation ship and have no sexual desire.these countries girls like independence.they consider them self as a traditional and sex is a taboo subject for them. these girls do sex just for money with no feelings.
96% Asian (Chinese girls,Korean girls, Japanese girls) are sex less
they prefer or like American,Canadian,Australian,British and European boys for marriage to get nationality of that countries and later they will kick you up
these girls don’t like sex with these countries boys because they have big dicks and the girls feel uncomfortable
it is true Asian girls have no feeling and no sexual desire and do sex for money
the Asian girls think these countries boys are rich and life is better there.
the Asian girls go to western countries by tourist visa to do jobs as or in a prostitute to earn much more money
in city geylang singapore million of Chinese are working in a prostitutes.
avoid Asian girls for marriage
Asian girl will say you,she love you very much but at the same time she will have affair with other guys for fun or for money
except this in Asian girls you will find many bad qualities
@ Just Kill Me Now,
Welcome to our unusual community (and ignore the trolls).
When I read your story this is what came to mind:
I knew a British woman married to a Japanese man who had two children by him. While I don’t know of their sex life I do now he was a decent person. She, however, seemed frustrated and would often attack me because I (a man) chose to stay in Japan (and have since left) while she considered herself stuck there because she was a woman with obligations. One time, at my daughter’s birthday party she started it again, saying “I don’t understand why you stay here.” This comment was unprovoked as I seldom complained about Japan being quite happy there. She, however, was fucking bitter. Having enough of her attacks, this is what I said: “I don’t see a chain around your leg. Your husband hasn’t confiscated your passport. I know you have some money of your own and a place to go back home overseas. Women leave their husbands and children every day. If you were honest, you would admit that you choose to stay here just like I do.” She never spoke to me again.
Don’t take my comments as an attack on you. They are not meant to be that at all. Do you really want to throw away the next 10 years of your life?
Nice to see this forum still up and “swinging”…
Kayumochi – how goes it? You any closer to coming back?
It’s been nearly 10 months since we’ve been back in Japan and it has been great for the relationship. Let’s just say “Certainly NOT sexless in Japan.”!!!
We have come a long way as a couple and it has been through a lot of honesty that has got us to where we are now. We are talking about what we want rather than just hoping that the other half works it out for themselves.
To those that are having a hard time with sexless in Japan I think you need to get on with your own life and get your needs met if your partner is refusing to play. Humans are sexual beings – if you can’t express yourself in that way and you want to, then it’s your responsibility to make it happen.
Your comments please.
Wow, thank goodness I came across this website and found out there are women like me. I just married my Japanese husband a few months ago after moving back to the US from Japan, but we were sexless from the beginning. I have to beg my husband for sex, and even at our most frequent it’s maybe once every 1 or 2 weeks. I never thought I would have to beg for sex from my own husband. I have tried everything, but he just has no interest in sex, or rather, he can’t be bothered. Interesting though that when I offer to give him head without intercourse he’s more than happy to accept…
I honestly don’t know what to do. I am really unhappy. The thing is, he is a really wonderful husband and partner in every other sense of the word, and I am madly in love with him. Any advice from others with the same problems would be greatly appreciated.
If he watches porn you might want to discuss that with him, because it probably has a lot to do with his lack of desire. See if you can convince him to cut back or stop altogether, even if only temporarily. Does he know how to pleasure a woman, is he insecure due to lack of knowlege? Maybe you could coach him in what you like. Perhaps you could offer oral sex as an incentive to cooperate.
Good luck,
James
I think what most people fail to realize is the culture in Japan is one that a husband and wife are more like mother and son. Hence the lack of sex.
Its just that simple. Sure both Japanese men and women like sex from their gf or bf, but all that changes when you tie the knot.
I have been married to my Japanese wife for nearly 10 years. Yes the sex is boring compared to Western women, but we have sex on a regular basis and she gets upset if we don’t actually.
The thing is, Japanese culture is not one of showing emotional feelings overtly and this goes for the bedroom in comparison to Western couples. I think people get caught up on the Japanese without knowing or understanding what they are getting.
I’ve lived in Japan for a little more than a year and I’ve experienced some of this already. I know from my friends and from my own experiences that Japanese people tend to show a very proper and respectable image most of times, but beneath this layer of social correctness, eroticism is very alive. It is certainly true that marriages are not rendering what they should (children) as much as they should and this is quite worrying, although an overpopulated country is perhaps unconsciously solving its overpopulation issue with this attitude. Compared to my own side of the world, I was very surprised to see that in Japan adultery is not considered such a serious offense.
After reading this article I was also surprised to find out about the brother-sister relationships in marriage. I was not aware of this at all. As a foreigner I must point out that I’ve noticed that among the specialized services we offer to Japanese society, the “Leroy the lover” role has become quite notorious. I am not offended by this, but just a bit surprised.
divorce is a good choice
Mmm, very interesting discussion! I am an Italian girl married to an asian (non-Japanese) man, so I hope you all don’t think I’m intruding. I actually stumbled on this site because I’m currently pregnant and was searching whether natto was safe in pregnancy (fascinating what happens when one link leads to another…).
If it helps to give you the perspective of a non-Japanese women from a “passionate” culture (which I’ve seen come up in the comments as an alternative to Japanese women?), even I sometimes find myself “not in the mood.” Granted, in our eight years of marriage, it’s never gone for more than a week, but perhaps that’s because culturally Italians feel the joy of giving sex to others even when they don’t want it themselves? I can’t claim any special sex drive being born Italian (at least I don’t think so?
), but maybe culturally I think sex is a gift that both people give each other (and sometimes you are the giver, the receiver, or both). Maybe this is a poor way to explain it?
I guess what I really want to say is two things. First, everyone is different, with different libidos and cultural hangups. You may find a woman from Brazil or Italy who only wants sex once a month (perish the thought!) or you may find a German woman who’s a nympho and can’t get enough. So it pays to try to feel them out. However, that only works if they are honest…
Which leads to: second, I think what is so unfair about all this is the bait-and-switch. I studied in Japan for two years and had a Japanese boyfriend, but I didn’t find his sex drive to be different from other lovers’. Granted, we were not married, but now I am wondering if I was lucky to avoid marrying him! If I had married my current husband and he’d stopped wanting sex, I would have felt utterly betrayed, and I have genuine empathy for those husbands on here who still love their wives, but whose wives pulled this on them. It happens even in my culture, though — but usually not so often (and usually because the wife is very manipulative and maybe crazy!).
Even I worry about what having this baby will do — my husband and I have already talked about after. How can we play during the required 6 weeks off!? What if my libido is affected like so many other things are by a baby? It’s an intimidating thought!
Also, don’t beat yourselves up! You have beautiful, calm and competent wives who are great mothers. Many people in passionate cultures are a little crazy and my asian husband often bemoans that I am quick to anger, disorganized, bold (unlike asian women). I worry, how I can ever be a good mother like your Japanese wives? So, you have many blessings in your marriage even if sex is an issue to work on.
So, I hope sincerely I didn’t take the conversation off course, I just hope to make you all feel better that even a girl from a passionate culture can worry about sex and making sure it’s still part of married life, and also has issues with marrying an asian culturally. Sorry for any mistakes in my English.
Also, my anti-spam word was “broad”
I think that’s cute.
Daniella,
You are awesome.
On behalf of all the men who have posted their woes here, “We love you and wish you well.”
Good luck with the baby!
Japanese Don’t have SEX!日本の性
Foreign MEN!!!
外国の人
1. Read
2. Weep
3. Get Educated
4. Don’t be a Victim
Sometimes men need to see it in the RAW
Sexual Wellbeing Survey
Durex.com Frequency of SEX
English
http://tinyurl.com/njcpjj
Japanese
http://tinyurl.com/2ejrhd9
What a silly comment, “Japanese women are naturally feminine”. This author is writing from fantasy. Women are ALL naturally feminine. I do not like the exoticism this author displays. In fact, we Japanese women are petite but to some are more masculine in that way. We lack the curvy bodies anime demands of us. It is all in the eye of the beholder. How insulting this article is! Sorry I did not get to read your facts!
@Amiko
“Women are ALL naturally feminine.”
I challenge that statement.
http://funkjelly.com/2009/06/19/wanted-ugly-american-women-who-can-sing/
Read up on some psychosexual theory, and have psychological sciences enlighten you as to what “Feminine” really means. Also, spend time studying animal biology and behavior.
Here’s a primer on male behavior, which is true amongst humans as it is in animals:
1) All male animals in nature have to dance, entertain, excite, or “wow” the female.
Example: Insect mating dance, Peacock feathers, others.
2) Males typically woo females with gifts.
Example: Male black widow delivers a wrapped insect in his own silk to the female.
3) Males fight amongst themselves for “Mating rights.”
Example: Moose, Deer, Wolves
These are just a few of many examples. What’s more, save for some exceptions, feminimity, from a natural standpoint, indicates a female’s capacity to bear and raise children, and the qualities congruent with such actions. These include: Tenderness, aesthetics, fertility, as well as other traits…
Here’s a link to more: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/02/human-vs-animal-mating-rituals-were-not-so-different-after-all.php
There is a common baseline with all females. There is a common baseline with males.
It just so happens by coincidence that Japanese culture underscores and highlights the natural feminine within it’s culture, for better or worse. Cultural nuances can serve to either empower or demoralize the women. But most important: The society that moves against the natural coding of our DNA is the society with the most problems in reproduction and gender relations. I speak from experience, look at the USA! It’s like (most of) the women don’t even remember how to smile!
Edit: Because human beings have the capacity to incorporate frontal cortex reasoning, this may either augment or hinder appeal to the opposite sex.
Case 1: The “liberated womyn” who does not shave at all, refuses to bathe, and is sexist against men.
A higher cortex choice (her right), but with the consequence of being unappealing to men. I cannot judge it, in the absolutist sense, as good or bad, unless she is also trying to find a boyfriend, or trying to be a part of human society.
Case 2: The woman who chooses to make herself appealing to attract a mate. She will change her appearance/appeal to suit his individual tastes in order to get his attention.
A higher cortex choice (again, her right) to strategize on how to attract a specific man based on personality appeal. She could have chosen to not care, not to obey the natural call to attraction, and not appeal to the man, but in case 2, it suited the woman’s interests.
*Anecdotal, hypothetical, based on observations and science regarding human psychology and social memes prevalent across human societies.
Hi All
We interviewed Rieko Saigo (a leading couple and sex consultant in Japan) on this topic because of your great response and discussion here. Here is the link to the article we wrote up on the interview.
http://www.stippy.com/japan-culture/rieko-saigo-interview-advice-on-sexlessness
Please let us know what you think!
my heart all goes out for you… i wish you had married Filipina girls who just get hotter and hotter as the years go by, loves to experiment in sex and are happy to lock children out for even an hour at night just to be intimate… filipina girls crave intimacy and are willing to do anything to make sure a marriage never lacks it
So I was out the other night with some good (Japanese) friends that I have known for a long time and for some reason the conversation turned to sexless marriages. (Most of us were married). What surprised me most was that in reaction to me coming out that we were sexless, one of the guys asked me “but, do you really want to have sex with your wife??”.
Jhoward
Your friend wrapped up the whole debate in one statement.
“but do you really want to have sex with your wife?”
The Japanese see their wifes AND their husbands as extensions of their mothers and fathers. At home their call each other Mother and Father, and once they have kids the mother no longer even sleeps in the same bed as the father.
The mind set of the Japanese is not one that encourages a highly intimate and sexual relationship between husband and wife. Its the culture. Furthermore, its also in the culture to view someone who “Endures” as strong and having a good trait. People endure physical pain much more than in the US, women endure their lives as wifes, and men endure their wifes and their lot in life in many ways. They do so with a certain amount of pride.
Like you, I have many Japanese friends, family and a Japanese wife….for more than a decade.
I would also like to ad, there is another idiom in Japan that goes something like.
“You don’t need to feed your fish once you have caught it.”
I am quick to tell Japanese people that If you don’t feed your fish, someone else will….
Sorry, but I don’t think the article with Dr Saigo introducing Adam Tokunaga helps many people who are sexless.
There are many husbands who would be more than willing to go for slow sex – massaging, you name it. But they are married to a wife who doesn’t want physical contact at all. If they were married to women who were willing to go to Adam Sex Clinic and pay 400 dollars for a sex therapy session, they wouldn’t have any problems!!!
There aren’t many average women who would go to a place like that. The articles sounds like an advertisement. And anyway, what a great job! What guy wouldn’t want to be Dr Adam!? He claims to have great success, but the kind of woman who is willing to pay money, turn up at the reception desk and ask for a massage that will be sexually liberating, and hear talks about her clitoris etc, probably already has a great mindset. What Dr Saigo says and makes sense to me is that many Japanese woman just fake it before marriage and then then when married don’t feel the need to pretend anymore. So many gaijin come here meet a girl who has sex all the time and is supposedly wonderfully responsive, but then they marry. – and then follows all the troubles that have been listed above. This article just seems to imply that the problem with the sexless marriage is that the husband isn’t a slow, thoughtful lover, and/or doesn’t have the wonderful skills of Dr Adam.
Disappointed.
Way to go JAPAN hope you keep up the good work of being sexless. I wish
it would take hold in the USA. I’m a sexless male and I should be in JAPAN,
but can’t afford to go there.
Married to a Japanese woman for 10 years.
Don’t do it!
After she got what she needed, my child, she cut me off. She did not even sleep in the same room. The husband for them is just a cash register.
It all becomes a mess when they want to go back to Japan with your kids and tell you that they do not belong to you and that they do not need a father.
Save you some pain, stick with locals.
Wow, all she wanted was the admiration and envy for having mixed children. As you know anything gaijin is sugoi in Japan. Having kids means 1) she will not be lonely in Japan 2) She will have someone to take care of her when she gets old 3)Everyone will think she has the coolest kids around. People assume the idea of Western “Love” relationships are understood as being common around the world but its not. In Japan the husband or wife first has a purpose which has nothing to do with Love. If your purpose is required for the long term then a minimal effort will be put forth to keep you fulfilling your purpose. If your purpose is only needed temporarily then you will be quickly dismissed.
I agree totally with ‘I agree’! My situation is almost identical to his and I would absolutely recommend NOT marrying a Japanese woman!
My Japanese wife treats me like I’m a lodger – and rarely, if ever, sleeps with me in my/our room! Sex is rare and when we do have it, she treats it like a chore, no affection E. V. E. R.
I’m having a hard time staying with her but have spent the last few years staying for our son. I live in japan and divorce is a mere formality here – sign a paper, hand it in to city office and you’re done! The only trouble is, only one parent gets the kids here, and it’s usually the mother and if you’re a foreigner, 99.9% of the time, the Japanese parent will be given custody regardless of any prior agreements!
The Japanese family courts are a complete joke and they, along with the government, health “professionals” and “experts”, plus traditional beliefs, care little for the effect on kids!
Will I stay? Maybe, but as Coconut says: if you don’t feed your fish, someone else will. Or at the very least, the fish will either leave the tank and swim feed elsewhere, or die!
Do NOT marry a Japanese woman whose agenda is ONLY to have kids!!
I am a 51 year old American that has been married to a Japanese women for 26 years. Sex did pretty much end once our daughter was born three years after we were married. I am a Christian so divorce is something I am against and would never pursue. In addition I love what Daniella wrote in post 556 “don’t beat yourselves up! in that You have beautiful, calm and competent wives who are great mothers.” My wife’s priority is her son and daughter. It is followed by her sister, parents, niece and nephew, and then I am placed just after our cat. I was actually going to purchase for my wife a couple of chickens and a coop for her birthday. I did not go through with it because I can handle being behind a cat in her affections but it would just kill me if I ended up behind a chicken. I do not think I am alone in this and I would bet that most Japanese women have the same placement of people on their affection list.
I can say that in the past because of the lack of sex with my wife I did have a couple of girl friends. It was something that of course went against my religious beliefs so those relationships ended. In addition one is always caught eventually and the end result is devastating. I do not feel good what I had done. This is a topic I thought I would ask my pastor about. However: I know there is not a good answer so what would be the point? You have a wife that will not have sex. You can not divorce. You can not commit adultery. You are not to look at pornography. One in my situation can only grin and bear it. That is the only answer. I just wish my wife would bare herself now and then so it would make it easier for me to grin.
For my wife her answer to me is do it yourself. This is what I do with my home repair. It is also what I do to satisfy myself. I do now and then call a professional for my home repair. I just have not yet called a professional for the other. However: it sure is tempting.
Here is my theories on why Japanese women are frigid.
1, They are obsessed with being clean. In my wife’s case she says sex is too much work because of all the clean up with afterward.
2, Sex is not productive. Life for Japanese is often about being productive. Sex for a Japanese women is just a big waste of time. When my wife wanted a second child she did have sex because it was a productive way to have a child. I know my wife would have been please as punch if instead I gave her a spoonful of my sperm instead of sex. That in her mind would be a ten fold increase in productivity.
3. The diet consist of just way too much Soy. As long ago as 164 BC monks included tofu in their diet as an aid to spiritual enlightenment and abstinence. They found the more tofu they consumed the lower their libido.
http://www.bottomlinefitness.com/2009/04/24/soy-and-sex-do-no-mix/
4. There is very little touching in Japan. How can one enjoy sex if the sense of touch has never been developed.
I would make the list longer but I just now developed the urge to be self sufficient and take care of my needs by doing it myself.
I just finished reading a book “Mating in Captivity” by Esther Perel, and I would recommend it to anyone here who has experienced a decline in the sexual side of their relationship. It won’t give you step-by-step solutions to your problems but it gave me a lot of insight into the sexual dynamics of my relationship. It goes to show that sexlessness is an international phenomenon, and the causes are not necessarily found in Japanese culture.
Timmy – excellent points which I can confirm in my 17 years of marriage. To point #1, I highly recommend installing a Toto Washlet. It’s increased our frequency from once per month to 2-3 times per month. Once per week would be ideal, but this is good enough.
Dude
@ Dude
Increased her desire to have sex 2 to 3 times a month or increased her willingness to allow you to do sex to her 2 to 3 times a month?
Most likely increasing her willingness to “allow” him to do sex “to” her, while she lays there like a dead fish.
I doubt very seriously if she will be into the event….
It seems counter intuitive but the best thing to do is to just ignore her and never even try to get sex. Believe it or not the very act of “trying” to have sex make you seem weak and needy and is a real turn off. Even if you have to do-it-yourself or pay someone to please you not even touch her for a couple of months, no kisses not even a peck. She will definitely try to get your attention before then and tease you into begging her for sex. Women need attention like men need sex, use that fact to your advantage. Giving her all the attention even when you get no sex means having sex is no benefit to her, so why do it. Turn the tables to your advantage.
Willingness to allow. It begins as doing sex “to” her which is a drag, but after a few minutes she’s a willing participant.
I mentioned Timmy’s points #1 and #2 above to her. She laughed and said he’s spot on. So at least we can talk and joke about this issue. After 17 years it is what it is; begging/whining/arguing are counterproductive. Coconut’s suggestion above has been brought up previously in this forum and may work for guys married to insecure women, but I don’t feel it’s useful in most Japanese marriages where the wife would be pleased if her ecchi” husband were chemically castrated.
I hate to generalize, but if your Japanese wife is a good cook, good mother, and remains slim/attractive then the tradeoff of a limited sex life is worth it – at least for me. I wouldn’t jeopardize marital harmony by screwing around on the side – but I certainly do fantasize about it.
Anyway, install a Washlet for your women. It’s $250 and an excellent investment. Makes taking a dump much more pleasurable as well.
Dude
Dude, for what its worth I have a Japanese wife too, been married for 10 years. Thank goodness I get sex pretty much when I want it but there is always room for more and improvement.
My wife feels the same as yours, sex is useless [even though she has more orgasms from it than me] go figure. The point I want to make though is that sex and the need for sex is natural, it is very selfish for a mate to ignore the needs of their partner and make them ‘gaman’ when they really don’t have too.
I live in the US and although its not televised on the News, HIV is alive and well here, as both me and my wife are in the health field and see many, many HIV patients coming to the hospitals more often over the years. So with that said, sleeping around here is like playing Russian Roulette and indeed not worth the personal risk.
I am glad that my wife is receptive to my personal needs and does not treat it like some sort of sick affliction.
Sounds like you’ve got it pretty good, Coconut. Your wife doesn’t see the point in having sex, but she understands and takes care of your needs when they arise (pun intended). Enjoy.
After many years of marriage most husbands should know what buttons to push to get their wives off, which as you say should be reason enough for a normal woman to want and/or initiate sex regularly. But for Japanese women it’s 15 minutes that could be better spent reading, emailing, preparing tomorrow’s obento, etc. I can’t even get my wife to skip through a TV program with me, let alone lay down with me for a nice long lovemaking session. We get to bed too late because she’s busy doing crap until midnight, which is all the more reason for her to avoid sex.
Most of the frustration on both sides is due to differing perspectives. My wife doesn’t think I have a sick affliction, but she does think *I’m* the selfish one for wanting sex more than a couple times a month. Husbands who had sex 3 times a day before marriage got the ol’ bait and switch.
We’re not going to solve this problem, but at least we can all commiserate.
Dude
@coconut
“It seems counter intuitive but the best thing to do is to just ignore her and never even try to get sex. Believe it or not the very act of “trying” to have sex make you seem weak and needy and is a real turn off.”
Yes, it does make you seem weak to be in the asking position.
No, it doesn’t work.
I tried this (“That which you pursue will run from you..”) and got 3 months of no sex, no interest, no nothing.
I am happy to read that some of the guys have come to peace/terms or just have wonderful marriages. I am truly happy for you, as I don’t wish divorce on my worst enemy.
However, in my case, divorce got me away from a toxic Japanese marriage and I am in wonderful, loving relationship with a woman rings my bell daily. (Hooray for Poland!).
I agree with Dude that there is not a solution to this problem. It is not about learning the art of love making. I could be the kindest warm man in the world and be a good supporter financially. It would not do a lick of good in solving the problem. I can literally give my wife an orgasm in minutes. I am willing to give her a massage for how ever long she wants. I have even told her we will stop the sex once she has an orgasm. She is just not interested. Japanese women are for the most part frigid. I will add one more to the list of why this is the case. They are just way too serious to the point that they can not be playful. They just can not let go and have fun. Like Dude I can not get my wife to sit down and enjoy a TV show or go out for bike ride. Sex is enjoyable when it is an act that is playful. A Japanese woman does not know how to play so sex is not enjoyable. If it is not enjoyable why do it? It is not productive and it just makes the sheets sticky. This just makes it pure hell for a Japanese lady. All she can think about when she is doing it is the chores afterwords.
There is no solution. Therefore: do not even think about getting close to a Japanese women unless you have been castrated or are asexual.
Timmy
Wow, this is funny (or actually NOT funny) because Timmy describes almost the exact same situation I’m in as well. To her it’s a chore, and why do that when she could be browsing her Japanese blogs while sipping tea instead? If I had a nickel for every time she pushed it back just one more time I’d be a rich man by now.
Try this ultimatum, tell her that if it’s not going to happen then you’ll have to find someone else who will. Due to her fear of disease, this will freak her out and she’ll promise to do it more often, that is until she forgets and then pushes it back again and again. Seriously, I’d be interested in knowing what happens when you guys tell her that.
The only thing is I wouldn’t say that ALL Japanese women are like this, but it does seem like it’s fairly common.
Hi!
Well, been reading all the posts… very interesting.
@Doug
I actually gave my wife the ultimatum: Either have sex or I’d go and pay for it, or find a girlfriend. She ignored me. Anyway, I did the latter and after about 5 months I told her what was going on. She was upset of course but was really up for it at home. Changed her tune totally.
That was a year ago. And yes we’ve slipped back to the old ways: suddenly very busy late at nights; going to bed later than me; etc etc anything to avoid having to get it on.
So, I’ve started mentioning it when I see a cute woman either on TV or in the street etc. Let’s see how it goes.
Just remember folks, that in Japan most men easily pay for sex and most women go along with it as long as quite is kept. Bottom line is you can’t change a Leopards spots, you can’t make a Japanese woman something she is not.
If you want to have a girlfriend or pay for sex just do it. Sure she will know sooner or later but as long as things are normal at home she will let it go. Besides sex things might be ok at home, clean house, dinner cooked, cloths washed.
One question for men with Japanese wives. Has your wife ever had a dizzy spell, were she was always dizzy and could not do anything around the house?
For men without Japanese wives its best to follow Timmy’s advise and not marry a Japanese woman. Sure date one, enjoy the experience she will never say no at the beginning, but you can bet your balls that once you marry you will regret it.
Not only Japanese women, even their men are the same.They work really hard .They’re too busy finding their sault that they sometimes forget they needed some sugar.
@ Coconut; the dizzy spell is common for Japanese women around 40 above it is because theyre going through early Menopausal stage it takes 10 years of process,so If your wife is always having dizziness that is the beginning.My Japanese friends are going through a lot of it since theyre in their early forty’s.
@Going_Nuts, thanks for the info…yes I think she is pre-Menopausal, already hot flashes and sweating at night and the facial hair is showing up…:-(
Maybe all the comments on this board just confirm why the birth rate is so low in Japan….gotta have sex to make babies.
Too bad though because many J-Women are so super sexy, but [no sex drive + sexy looks = zero/useless] having a woman you can only look at is no fun.
Doug:
How would my wife respond if I told her I will find a girlfriend that will put out. My wife basically cut me totally off from sex. Maybe once a year at this point so it is a typical sexless marriage. If she does not have sex with me she is really not afraid of catching something. I have asked her a few times if she would mind if I had sex with another women. Depending upon her mood her answer rangers from go knock your socks off to that she would get a divorce. I think in reality she does have a strong stance. She just does not want to know or hear about it. It is more like the expression we have in the military in the states. Do not ask do not tell. For me this situation just drives me crazy. In a way my wife will kind of let me have some action on the side but my religion faith forbids it. Like I posted earlier I have had a couple of girlfriends in the past. For me there was a tension between the feeling of guilt and pleasure. The guilt eventually won out both times. I am not a strong man in saying no to a women that finds in interest in me. In both cases earlier the women found me attractive and made it clear their desire.
I lived in Japan in the early eighties when I was in my early 20′s. I did belong to a sports club that was made up of mostly middles age women. I was newly married with no kids so my wife was devoted to me and we had sex a 2 to 3 times a week. At that point in my life I thought Japanese women loved sex because at the club one of the ladies who was in her 40′s was very aggressive in wanting to have sex with me. She was married but no doubt she had a husband that did not give her sex. I did not go to the sex motel like she said she wanted to with me. I found it strange that others in the club both men and women were kind of disappointed in me that I did not fulfill this ladies desires. At this point in my life I know I could not say no to such a women.
Wow Timmy, I’m disappointed in you too….:-)
If I lived in Japan I would be a male whore, I talk to my wife sometimes about going back but I think she knows what will happen. Japanese women do like sex, its just not with their husbands….same for men, its just not with their wives. I think my wife is waiting for my sex drive to go away. Hmmmm maybe I should fake it for about a year. I live here in the States and I have already had a few Japanese girl friends just via the Internet.
I think though your wife will not divorce, just like mine won’t…they act tough and can be meaner than a Snake from hell but I have yet to see a Japanese woman that enjoys being alone and single. They are practical thinkers, they know that past 40 is the death sentence for finding a mate esp. if they have kids. The last thing they want is to be 50-60+ and have no companion [even if they don't like them].
Right now i am just playing the waiting game. Taking care of business and getting my ducks in a row. Sooner than later I will be back in Japan and when I do…WATCH OUT, I’m banging everything that moves!
Coconut:
I am sorry I disappointed you. My will is almost gone so your disappointment is most likely short lived.
Japan is a strange land. A good chunk of Japanese women will not have sex with their husbands. One the other hand: there is a good chunk of women that are willing to have affairs with these married men. The affairs also from what I seen are also not all that well hidden from co workers or friends. There just is not a taboo against adultery from what I have observed.
I did work for a small construction company in Japan with about eight employees. Most of them were married with kids. These men for the most did have girl friends or would go to places like soapy land. They did not hide this and would be shockingly open to me and others about their adventures. I had never experienced this in the USA. Of coarse men do have affairs in the USA but they as a rule do not let it be known to others.
One time the construction company I worked for took an overnight trip. There was a dinner show at the hotel and after the show girls came to customers table to talk. Most of my co workers hooked up with one of these ladies. In the show was a dancer from England. I was in heaven because I had not heard at that point proper English spoken for over a year. Just as one can be starved for sex one can also be starved for the English language. I sat and talked with this English girl for over an hour and I was having a great time. Nothing sexual and it was just a fun simple conversation. This lady was also hungry for a conversation in English. One of my co workers came up to me and said what the hell are you doing? He said that he already had gone to bed with one of the singers and was freaked out that I was still engaged in polite conversation with this pretty English girl. He later came over to my table a couple times more in disappointment with me and said what are you waiting for? This would for the most part never happen in the USA, but In Japan I know it is common. My wife worked for the Holiday Inn in Tokyo and she said her married co workers both men and women were open in their affairs with each other.
It was not uncommon for the company I worked for would do work on one home and the next day we would do work for the client’s girl friend’s home. The customer would not hide the fact that it was his girl friend’s home and that he is paying the mortgage for it.
Just by coincidence when we moved back to the USA our neighbor was a Japanese women. My wife went back to Japan for a month one summer. My Japanese neighbor who was married to an American man had an unmarried Japanese friend. My neighbor tried vigorously to hook the two of us together when my wife was gone. Oh my God. The temptation is just way to much. Do things like this happen in the USA? Maybe but not too often. All I know is when they happen to me and I do not go along with it I disappoint.
You are just a nice guy Timmy.
Don’t worry, in order to keep balance in the Universe I will do my part to balance out your lack of fornication.
Sexless in Japan, sure for husband and wife. But rest assured they both have robust sex drives. People don’t realize that Japanese men and women really don’t see their mates as sexual partners but instead family partners…more akin to brother/sister, mother/son etc. The sexual attraction for the spouse is gone. I seen it, and felt it in my own marriage…she seems like she has no interest in sex what so ever [with me]. But there has been times when I have seen her sexual horns come out for other men, in fact I would not be surprised if my wife slept with other men.
For me, I need sex and I will not force myself to endure a miserable life. My thinking is, if I approach my wife for sex a reasonable amount and she refused then I have no choice but to seek it elsewhere. And when I do I feel no guilt or shame. When you are hungry your first instinct is to look in your own kitchen for food, if its not there you have no choice but to look outside the home for sustenance. If you want to talk to someone but your spouse refuses to talk to you why should you endure no conversation? You will just go outside the home for conversation.
The need for sexual contact is as natural as that for food or water, its not a sin, its not evil or dirty, every human needs intimate contact. Even cats, dogs, monkeys etc. need intimate contact…starving yourself of it only brings misery to the life experience. Do not apologize for being human, there is nothing wrong from wanting or needing intimacy. I made it clear to my wife, that when she pushes me away, she is pushing me into the arms of another woman. I didn’t get married to suffer. Rest assured that if you have a girlfriend your wife will find out sooner or later and as long as things are good at home she will let you continue. Sometimes the other woman can actually help marriages, just maintain your duties at home, keep communication open and friendly, and always return home.
Good Luck buddy….
Funny thing is, usually its hard for Japanese to say no to peoples requests. However it seems that husbands are the easiest people to say no too. In fact maybe husbands are the only people they say no too.
Coconut:
I think you are on to something about husband being the only one that hear the word no. Japanese wives do not treat their husbands like a brother as has been posted by others earlier. A husband does not rate as high as a brother or sister. I could only hope to have a brother sister type relationship with my wife. It would be an improvement.
Last night I was flipping the channels and I came across an old silent Japanese film from the 30′s. It was great because it showed life as it was lived before the war. It was a truly funny film about two young brothers that lost respect for their poor dad because he was sucking up to their grade school friend’s dad. This dad was the boss of the young brother’s father. I told my wife that it would be great if she spent a few minutes with me to watch this film. I think you know the answer. No
I learned to not let it bother me too much. Life is short. However: It did kind of tick me off because I know she would have gotten a kick out of the film. In the same way she would get a kick out of getting the sheets sticky. But that never happens.
In the news…
“Survey shows rising indifference to sex among male teens, couples+”
TOKYO, Jan. 12 (AP) – (Kyodo)—One-third of Japanese men aged 16 to 19 were uninterested in or even averse to sex as of last year, doubling from 2008, a government survey showed Wednesday.
The survey, conducted in September, also showed more married couples were also found sexless than before, with more than 40 percent saying they had no sex in the past month.
The last survey was conducted by a research group of the Health, Labor and Welfare Ministry to study people’s views on lifestyle. It is based on replies provided by 671 men and 869 women aged 16 to 49 in interviews.
“The survey result confirmed that young men have become ‘herbivorous’,” said Kunio Kitamura, head of the Clinic of the Japan Family Planning Association who took part in the survey, using the term used increasingly in Japan to describe young males who are shy and passive in relationships with women.
According to the ministry, 35.1 percent of men aged 16 to 19 said they are uninterested in or averse to sex, surging from 17.5 percent in the previous poll in 2008.
The percentage climbed to 21.5 percent among men aged 20 to 24 from 11.8 percent two years earlier, and among women of any age group, the survey showed.
Those married men and women who said they had no sex in the past month totaled 40.8 percent, up from 36.5 percent in the previous survey and 31.9 percent in a 2004 study.
Respondents cited vague reluctance after childbirth, a sense that it is a bother and job-related fatigue as reasons for shunning sex with their partners.
“Some measures are necessary (to deal with the increase in sexless couples) as it is directly linked to the declining birthrate,” Kitamura said.
Many Japanese see their own culture as un-interesting and boring as men and women [husbands and wives] seem to see each other. I wonder if this all has some correlation to too much familiarity causing boredom. I mean to wake up day in and day out seeing 99% the same race people, speaking the same language and the same culture is what really makes all things Western have such an appeal.
[...] the first time this has hit and generated a lot of buzz on the web: this blog article = Is Japan Really Sexless? = appeared in 2006 and comments (almost 600) continue coming in to this day. If you’re [...]
Below is a link to an article on why young Japanese men are not interested in sex.
Is Porn Killing Sex in Japan?
http://www.henrymakow.com/is_porn_killing_sex.html
Thanks for the link Timmy.
This really confirms a theory of mine that watching too much porn reduces the sex drive. I have noticed this from myself actually. The more I watch porn the less I want sex.
However this does not take into account the females lack of a sex drive. Usually none of them watch porn yet their sex drive is almost non existent. The problem likely has multiple causes.
On a slightly different note. Have you noticed the excess use of “Toon” like cartoon characters throughout Japanese TV and advertising? You see toons in every aspect of media, its an overall mental child-like promotion of thought or something. This plus the excessive emphasis on everything cute is almost sickening. Cute if King amongst Japanese females, which goes hand in hand with youth.
Coconut:
The first day I was in Japan in 1983 I took a train from the Narita airport to my future wife’s home town. I did see on the train young adults reading comic books that had cute cartoon characters. I really did think at the time that we just happened to be on the train with a group of special needs adults taking a field trip.
I agree with you that there are multiple causes for the lack of a sex drive for today’s Japanese women. It would be interesting to see if there is a difference between now and say 100 or 200 years ago. Maybe we need to pitch in some money for a grant to have an historian research this topic. I do think there must have been a difference. At least I hope there was because if not men in Japan have suffered for just way to long.
I hate to admit it but I do watch porn. What can one do if your wife is a Japanese women with kids. What is it with Japanese porn? The women seem like they are being tortured. I think I would rather have a dead fish like my wife than the annoying crying girls you see on Japanese porn. Is this something new? Is this what young Japanese girls are now like in reality. Say it is not so. Do they act like this because they think it is cute? How could any man enjoy this?
Hi Timmy,
I am going to go out on a limb here and say Japanese women make those annoying crying sounds because it perpetuates the youth thing going on in Japan. Nothing is more sexy than a young girl and what better sound to hear than that of a 12 year old virgin vs. that of a 30 year old woman. The sound both makes the female appear to be a youthful virgin having sex for the very first time and also serves to excite the man because he hears the youthful cries of a girl sounding like a virgin instead of a grown woman. It also seems to accentuate the perception of innocence which on the outside seems to be a Japanese trait towards others.
Of course family and close friends know better, in fact family and close friends know a different person than I would meet on the street. If you were to meet my wife she would do the bow thing and smile as to appear to be polite, as would yours probably. But at home things are usually different. This makes it obvious when someone comments on how shy and innocent Japanese females are, this says they really have never gotten to know a Japanese female or male for that matter.
Not to take a negative tone, but what I am saying is that the Japanese are no better or worse than any other race of people and that politeness is a way of culture more than a way of the person.
Here is what I meant by the use of Toons in everything…notice the toons in this cell phone commercial. I have seen the same thing in the morning News and just about everything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhaU-5j19-U
I myself could be another statistic. It irritates me so much that I still have that sexual desire for my wife, I let her know and all I get from her is an “I’m sorry!”
We haven’t even kissed like we use to, like lovers. I know that there is more to marriage than sex and that it is not the MOST IMPORTANT thing. But it is an impotant aspect, that needs tending too, to keep a healthy marriage. I trully miss the kissing and the sensual touching.
David:
All I can say is forget even asking. Why do it if you only get a sorry from her? Just stop please. It is a waste of time and energy. With a Japanese women it will never get better. They are for the most part asexual. Enjoy the other aspects of your marriage and do not even try to touch or kiss her.
Trust me there is no solution.
I just wish someone wise 28 years ago told me the following.
Just say no. Friends do not let friends marry Japanese women.
Timmy:
“Friends do not let friends marry Japanese women.” – VERY FUNNY!
It took a looooong time (days!), but I actually read thru all the 600+ posts… phew!
I am coming up on 20 years of marriage to a Japanese woman (we are in our mid 40s) and can corroborate a lot of what has been written in this thread. I also got the bait and switch treatment, perhaps not as extreme as others. We still have sex, but she never initiates, EVER. And I get all the same excuses that’ve been posted previously when she doesn’t want to (oops, let me!). But when she does, we can still have some good sessions now and again. But I’ve had to invest A LOT of mental energy in keeping her “in the game”.
Before we married, I spent a lot of time studying about Japan and the language (I was trying to get a piece of “the bubble”), so i did my fair share of research on the Japanese. I also lived in Japan at the start of our marriage, and still travel there on business 2~3 times a year. Here are a few things I can share from my experience:
1. Husbands have no “blood relation” to the wife, and therefore are at the bottom of the totem pole at home… for me it’s just below the dog.
(Thank God for the kids – since she does the cooking for them she’ll include a plate for me)… The best book I’ve read on the Japanese psyche is “The Anatomy of Dependence” by Takeo Doi. It is MUST reading for those involved with the Japanese. It gave me a chance to preempt some of the issues others have encountered with their Japanese spouses. (ie., I knew going in that the mother-child relationship would be THE strongest in her life.) But, facing the reality of some of those issues still sucked whether I could prevent them or not.
2. Living in the U.S., I believe, is better for us as a couple/family. In Japan, all she would hear from the other wives is how none of them sleep with their husbands. This would perpetuate the situation at home as the Japanese are generally very susceptible to peer pressure (“None of my friends have sex any more. Why should we?”) At least here in the U.S., there are images that show a strong nuclear bond, with the husband/wife relationship as central. (And if it doesn’t work, you try again with someone else.)
3. This lack of husband/wife bond did lead me to build a relationship with a married American woman because of the emotional connection we made. We were emailing, texting and talking everyday but had not become sexual (yet) when my wife got wind. This sent her into a frenzy, and I honestly felt bad about it. But the reality was, I wasn’t being fulfilled emotionally (and sexually) at the time… In the end, I think this opened my wife’s eyes to what might become of our marriage if we didn’t try to be “a couple” again. After a couple of tough years (she needed to get it out of her immediate memory, and I needed to show her I wouldn’t maintain the “affair”), our relationship has improved considerably and we are in a pretty good place right now (5 years later). We’re not having sex as much as I’d like, but definitely more than 5 or 10 years ago.
4. Having as much daily, verbal communication as possible also helps with the intimacy. This is often VERY difficult, however, because my wife is admittedly very simple. So conversations can be excruciatingly basic. She has little desire to learn anything new intellectually (“I already know what I need to know” or “I’m done going to school”). But for me, it is frustrating, as I enjoy learning new things as a part of my human condition.
5. She is much more receptive to sex when the kids are not home. Of course, with 3 kids, this almost never happens, but when it does, she is WAY more willing, and usually WAY more into it. So I think a lot has to do with her getting out of her “home” mind-set… putting her into a different mental environment where she can be “free” without the chance of “getting caught” so to speak. (“Yellow Cab” mentality?)… But she still never initiates or makes any outward effort to create such an environment.
I’ll stop here, but I can definitely empathize with all the husbands of Japanese women. They are, generally, GREAT and devoted mothers, just not the best wives/companions in the Western definition… As such, I, too, would not recommend a Japanese wife, especially if you want mutual emotional/sexual/intellectual fulfillment from your spouse. It’s just not part of their cultural make-up… ergo, the thriving industry of Geisha, “snack”, soaplands, and love hotels…
@Mulligan
Very interesting post, thank you for sharing.
I agree about the Japanese peer pressure, I call it the Hive-Mentality.
Men don’t know how important all this advice is and how heeding it would literally save themselves a life time of emotional and sexual isolation.
Thanks Again!!!
I concur with a lot of what is being said but I’d like to find out something, and that is whether my wife is a little nutty. Last week, I put 4 pieces of pre-sliced bread in the toaster. After it was toasted, she opens it up and asks me which bread goes with which. I was incredulous so I said, whichever one you want, it doesn’t matter. She kept at it telling me it does matter. I just nodded my head, said I don’t know and walked away.
Is this related to her being Japanese, or is she just a bit crazy?
BTW, she finally initiated last week which was a miracle, but overall it’s painful dealing with this.
Doug:
You missed an opportunity. What were you thinking? You should have said that the female slices goes on top of the male slices.
I just wanted to say to all the foreign men who have posted on this site complaining about their Japanese wives, well the men/husbands are no better either!
Most Japanese husbands lose interest after the first few years of marriage. In my case we have no children and we are both in our forties , I am still interested in sex and long for it, maybe not like when I was younger but my husband never initiates and sometimes if I do he says he is too tired.
I know my husband is not having an affair ,doesn’t to girlie bars nor does he read those obnoxious mangas. So why isn’t he interested in sex any more?
I simply think once the Japanese are in a long term relation the intimacy and sex just goes out the window and that is just a fact of life that one has to live with.
I often travel to other countries and communicate with people of different backgrounds, however I haven’t heard people complain as much as those with J.spouses.
Mary:
After reading thru this thread, it seems you are not alone. Japanese men tend to withdraw as well. Again, I think it has to do with the cultural nature of the husband/wife relationship in Japan. The emotional, intimacy, and sexual expectations throughout the life of a marriage just aren’t the same as in the West. The husband/wife relationship is secondary to the other obligations in life. It is more like a business partnership.
I think the Japanese have been suppressing their inner feelings for “societal harmony” for so long that it is second nature to live by “tatemae”. So much so, that they sometimes think their “tatemae” IS their “honne”. Even when given carte blanche to express their “honne”, they sometimes still can’t do it, or don’t know how, because they never developed that ability to let go freely. This is can be VERY frustrating when trying to get them to communicate their inner feelings… And I think subconsciously they are also afraid of being labeled “hen” (since they would be the only one having sex with their spouse) and the resulting “murahachibu” (to use an old expression) that might result.
Timmy:
You should consider a stand-up routine at one of the amateur nights at a local Tokyo “live house”! I’d pay to watch… and empathize! ;-P
Timmy, thanks for the word of encouragement But it really needs to take the work of two people to fix the problem. I really commend Mulligan for reading through all these statements.
DUDE!!! Your my hero. I Just breezed through some and I was getting fumed and confused where the statements were coming from and for a while where they were going. But here is my two bits for this session.
Like I said, I’ve been having difficulty in my marriage just like anybody else. But sexless marriages not only exist in Japan. America and Mexico, and just as likely, any where else in the world. But the diference is that this is our concern, Those who chose to marry into the culture. I’ll bet, for a decent majority of the husbands on this thread are relatively responsible and their fair share, or more sometimes, to help relieve the stress of burden on their wives. I can speak for my self that I do. And my wife also undestands my our plight, I just don’t know if she is or going to be doing doing anything about it. But I am also no saint, I am still a man and human, and one with his own secrets. I just have been safe about them. Well as safe as one can be.
And a note to those that are outsiders looking in, Especially those who have not experienced that what “we”, husband and wives, have . We know that sex is not the important thing in a marriage, neither is money nor having children. But neglecting any one thing long enough, and not addressing it at all, will result in serious problems. A marrige requires balance, it takes work but it can be done. It would also be foolish to think a relationship wil not change when you get married, even though we would like to think otherwise. So, to the outsiders, don’t be surprised if you get a nasty comeback.
With that said here is the point. We really need to get the perspective of those we are claiming are hurting the relationship, and we need to continue to bring it up again and again until the message gets through. They should also understand that if they discover that their partner has gone outside the marriage, that they shouldn’t be too surprised about their discovery. We don’t want to get a divorce, we want to prevent one, but our partners are sure not helping in preventing the though from crossing our minds. I know my wife was real quick to bring that up. But Japanese traditionalism is no help at times. I know my wife had uncomfortable experiences with Japanese doctors that rarely run into concerns like those that we pseak of. And there was more than one occasion where I wished I was there at the time so I crunch him through the wall, or atleast given him a decent earful. But this problem is just not talked enough about it during the day time. I was surprised to hear that one comedians wife showing up on that comedy advise show. In a nut shell, her beef is that he isn’t intimite enough with her.
I have friends, both in “mixed” and “unmixed” (for lack of a better term) marriages, and both types of couple exist. But it almost appears that the “sexless marriage” problem is more prominant. I have also learned it is not just the wife that is the problem, but the husband could also be the one with the issues. Bless those that have the relative heathy relationship, and i wish them the best. I just hate feeling envious of them, especially when it is about something that really shouldn’t be a problem. But to be fair, every relationship should be given the benefit of the doubt, especially since every relationship probably has their own set of circumstances that led that relationship to its present state.
The irony of it all is if you look at it in a historical perspective, It is almost understandable why prostitution, male and female, has existed for so long and why concubines was also so acceptable amongst nobility or the wealthy.
But I would like to hear from those wives and husbands whose sexdrive or sexual appetite has all but diminished. I would really like to hear their sides. I would also like to see this thread spread outside this blog. Maybe attach a link to that comedian’s wife story. I thnk I saw it on Japantoday.com. I would also like readers out there with some positive news. Just to change the mood a little.
Any takers???
“But I would like to hear from those wives and husbands whose sex drive or sexual appetite has all but diminished.”
D.C. 601:
I really do not think that will ever happen. Those Japanese wives and husbands just do not care. I bet not one Japanese spouse if asked would read this blog. I totally agree with Coconut. He sad Funny thing is, usually its hard for Japanese to say no to peoples requests. In fact maybe husbands are the only people they say no too. I will also have to include Mary in this. She will her a no from her husband also if she ask him to read this blog. I hope I am proved wrong but you will never hear from those Japanese asexual wives or husbands.
A person married to a Japanese is second to their family and pets. All I can say is enjoy a life outside your Japanese wife or husband . I have learned to do this and for me it is not all that bad.
Each marriage is different and for me mine is totally nonsexual. All I can say is I envy Mulligan and Coconut. At lease they get some now and then.
Timmy
Timmy,
We could only hope. I would like to think there are some people that will face the problems and try to fix them, or atleast properly acknowledge them.
D.C.
People there is no problem.
The JIST of all the posts is that this is a Cultural Norm, therefore there is no problem to fix, face or acknowledge.
In the cases where the J-Spouses live like this there is really no hope. The cultural norm is already ingrained into the person, its normal. To them the person who is abnormal is the person who seeks intimacy.
Perhaps its the Christian/Western culture in people that always makes them look to hope as a possible solution.
Here’s an update. My wife is too tired during the week due to work so I waited for the weekend to see if she’d initiate. I purposefully did not ask about it to see. Sure enough, nothing happened. So Sunday night I asked what I should do if she’s not interested in sex. She complained that she’s too tired from work and household chores. Basically, both at work and home, she feels she’s doing too much so she feels she is overworked. for example, she won’t wait for me to do the dishes, she’ll do them right away, and not say anything. But she’ll use it as a reason not to have sex later on. Communication is bad at work as well as home for her.
So I said I’d prepare her dinner better when she came home etc. That satisfied her, and she said she’d have sex the following day. But that night after her shower we did it anyway, which is very rare since she had already taken a shower.
If this lasts more than a couple of weeks I’ll be surprised. If it’s not one thing it’s another with her.
Coconut;
If that were true then the divorce rate would be lower and this would be the first country that its populous condone “open” relationships. But even the sexual related frustrations are being complained about one side or the other in an all Japanese relationship. I agree, it could be ingrained and further nurtured by family, but it doesn’t mean that they actually like it.
Just thought it is good to remind ourselves why sex is so good. I found this on the web and agree with most of it.
Enjoy!
1. The balance of your mental and emotional health is definitely influenced by sex. While abstinence often leads to anxiety or paranoia and even depression…having sex can cure cases of light depressions. After having exercised sex, the brain releases endorphins that decrease stress and induce a wonderful state of euphoria.
2. For all you women, having regular sex means freedom from expensive salon treatments. An excellent beauty treatment, having sex actually doubles the level of estrogen in women and makes their hair shine with brilliance while making their skin supple and softer.
3. And if you want to live longer, then look no further than your own bedroom. According to a research carried out at Queens University in Belfast, Ireland, having regular sex increases the lifespan in humans. It was found that out of the people of the same age and health, those who had more frequent orgasms faced 50% less death rate than who people who didn’t have frequent orgasms.
4. Sex is an excellent deep-cleansing treatment as well. Since sex is a strenuous but enjoyable exercise, when you have sex the pores of your skin are cleansed leaving a brighter and glowing skin as well as decreasing the risk of developing dermatitis.
5. An inexpensive and pleasurable exercise, sex can make you lose weight. When you have sex after a candlelight romantic dinner, not only do you burn all the fat and carbohydrates you consumed, but you also stay healthy at no extra cost! Consider this: A single session of passionate, mind-blowing sex (even regular sex) can burn about 200 calories. This is equivalent to running for 15 minutes on a treadmill!
6. Ladies, if you like you man to have bulging biceps then have sex more often. Sex is a great way to strengthen muscles. Imagine the effort made by your man through those difficult pushes and flexions! Of course, it all depends on the stunts in your bed…but it’s definitely better than running for miles on miles.
7. The more active your sex life, the more attractive and irresistible you become for the opposite sex. Really! An active sex life means that your body gets into the habit of releasing more pheromones, chemicals that attract all those gorgeous, luscious women! No wonder Casanova was so popular!
8. Sex can sharpen your senses; especially enhance your sense of smell. After sex, prolactin is released that activates the stem cells in the brain to form new neurons in the olfactory bulb. This helps to improve your sense of smell.
9. A pain reliever, sex is TEN times more effective than painkillers such as Valium. Just before orgasm, the hormone oxytocin’s level rises almost 5 times, leading to release of large amount of endorphins. Endorphins are natural painkillers and relieve you of pain, minor headaches, and migraines without any after effects. Next time your lady has a headache, treat her with a vigorous session of lovemaking rather than a Valium.
10. The act of Kissing stimulates salivation, which helps clean food particles stuck between the teeth and lowers the acidity level in your mouth. This is the primary cause of tooth decay. So kiss all you want, after all it’s a great excuse!
So my dear friends, sex is not just good for the mind, the body, but the wallet as well!
Mary:
Thanks a bunch for making my feeling of frustration even greater. Like I really needed to be reminded why sex is good. Can you please find out for me if it works if I do it myself or is a partner required to receive these multiple benefits.
When I want to have sex my wife is very polite in a Japanese fashion. She leaves the room so I can focus alone on the job at hand.
Number 10 the act of kissing is not a do it yourself job. This is something my Japanese wife will never even think about doing. To her it is just way too unclean. Mary, is your husband the same in this way of thinking?
Coconut is correct once again in explaining that there is no hope. I really do not think my wife will have a road to Damascus experience. It is wrong but the only hope I have at this point is to hook up someday with someone like Mary who seems like a fun lady.
Doug,
Don’t play the game, you will loose every time. This is due to the fact that Japanese women know NO limit to how crazy they will act.
Soon you will find yourself in a Damned-if-you-do-Damned-if-you-don’t situation. This will serve as a deal breaker to get her off the hook for having sex.
Timmy
All I can say is that being a man in an Asian country it is so much easier to hook up with a woman. There are tons of women out there who might just wanna meet a man like you, so don’t hesitate at the opportunity of having fun. And don’t allow your wife’s rejection, lower your self confidence.
As for us middle-aged gaijin women , Japan is like a desert where it is very hard to meet available men and even worse if you are looking for a non Japanese man.
Most foreign men I have met who are in relations with J women, just want to talk to a gaijin woman who can understand them about their troubled marriages, there isn’t a lot more to it.
But the last thing I want to say is that sex is more fun, if you do it with a person you care for rather than a one night stand to satisfy your instincts. Or at least if feels like that for women.
I didn’t mention it before but this is actually my second marriage.
Before I was married for 13 years to another American person [not Japanese], but what it taught me is that if a person is not willing to do something or is not able to do something it won’t happen. You can not use reason, books, counseling, begging, or threats to get results. Believe me, I tried all of the above including vigilant prayer and even college courses on the Psychology of Women to help me understand the problem in order to ‘fix it’. After 13 years of what I called Purgatory, yes I literally felt as if I was being punished by God for past sins. I was the “Perfect” husband before, until I just said forget it, I refused to allow myself live in total misery. After 10 years of torment I finally got a girl-friend and started to relieve some of my pent-up frustrations. 3 years later I got rid of her all together and became a free man.
Long story short, before when i was highly religious it was my convictions that served to benefit my spouse as the fear of God kept me from happiness. This allowed her to basically be the worst wife a man could imagine, living in the comfort that your[my] convictions would make you[me] an honest man ‘no matter what’. Well it took me some time to realize that life is not about torment, agony, and enduring a life of being starved of a nature human need ‘love, affection, and intimacy’, but instead life is about being happy and fulfilled. Its not me who is crazy or overly needy, based on all the Psychological studies my needs are normal. Its the people who can not feel and act out or share love-affection and intimacy who are damaged in some way. It is not my lot in life to endure and suffer because of someone else’s faults that they have no desire to correct. Instead I choose to peacefully and respectfully move on with my life and leave them to theirs.
It is very interesting how most comments are from men complaining about their Japanese wives. Let me tell you Japanese wives can be sexual and have sexual desires too.
I guess my case is a little different in that I the husband am not a very physically sexual person, and yes the feeling between my Japanese wife and I is very much that of brother and sister. Our marriage is great we are very happy living and being together.
I have no interest or need in affairs or extra marital sex and both my wife and I know that.
Now what I might say next might shock some people but my wife meets a married guy (who loves his wife but she is not so sexual) about once month. She doesn’t want to meet him any more than this, it is an escape for her and for him and she always comes back to me and he to his wife. This really works for our marriage. We feel strong and close that we do the best for each other and are honest with each other.
Maybe many men have an arrangement with there wife condoning extra marital sex in certain circumstances? I just what to say sometimes it happens the other way.
People are different so you can’t just blame everything on Japanese women.
InJapan
So you are what is called a Cock-Hold husband.
That lifestyle is rare even amongst sexually open Americans.
Glad it works for you and yours but most people of any culture would not choose that lifestyle.
I think the term is cuckold.
We are not swingers or anything like that and it is more of an arrangement to keep everyone happy than a fetish thing like you see on the internet.
I don’t thing my situation is much different to many mens? just with the genders reversed.
I can understand the sexless Japanese wifes mindset.
Honestly I would say these arrangements are very common in Japan but they are kind of implied and unsaid rather than it being a big out in the open American style way.
coconut
I don’t know how rare this lifestyle is because I guess it isn’t something people talk about.
From what I have heard and from this thread it seems that this lifestyle is common but with the man being allowed by the wife to seek his needs outside the marriage.
I guess it is more taboo the other way? although statistics show as many women as men have extra marital sex.
Thinking over things I come to the question.
What is intimacy?
My wife and I are very intimate in hugging each other and gentle kisses but for us sticking are tongues down each others throats just doesn’t feel right.
My wife does have needs for another type of intimacy and those feelings aren’t with me which we both accept and live with.
My wife does have needs for another type of intimacy and those feelings aren’t with me which we both accept and live with.
InJapan:
Come on and do your job as a man and a husband. Stop being the town wimp and make love to your wife. This is something you should do even if you do not really enjoy it all that much. Suck it up and act like you enjoy it. A real man or woman will do things for their wife or husband regardless.
Sorry but I do not think your wife does really accept or live with it. That is why she has a boy toy.
Timmy
I guess that is just the way are marriage is.
I have to say my wife is happy with the situation, maybe with her being Japanese she is more accepting of the lack of sexual intimacy between us but in a way it fits with her view of a perfect husband and that is me.
InJapan:
You are not all man because you do not have sex with your willing wife. In the same way my wife and the many Japanese women like her are not all woman because they will not have sex with their willing husbands.
A partial man would need to have an arrangement like you have to satisfy his wife. How pathetic that must feel !
Timmy
Do you love your wife? even though she isn’t all woman as you say.
I love my wife and she loves me, There are many shades of love.
I suppose in a perfect world my wife would be married to the guy she shes and his wife would be with me, but in that situation there isn’t the love that my wife and I feel for each other and that he and his wife feel for each other.
Also it isn’t just Japanese women, look how with me it is reversed.
I don’t feel pathetic at all in fact my wife says it makes me more of a man to understand her needs and have this arrangement and I feel more of a man for allowing it knowing I DO satisfy her just indirectly through my acquiescence.
InJapan:
I love my wife like I love my sisters. It is not a romantic love like it was just before and shortly after my marriage with her. I know I would feel different if she had sex with me or just even touched or kissed me with passion. I do not see her a a whole women because of this. I would not want my son or daughter to marry such a person.
I think one feels a great romantic love for a person if that person also has deep sexual desire for you. This can happen to two virgins before they get married. They do not have sex and wait for marriage. The passion of love between them builds up because of their mutual desire of waiting to be intimate. Kind of like a kid waiting for Christmas morning.
Now my romantic love for my wife has died. I know she is a good woman and a great mother, daughter, sister, and friend to many. However: as a wife she is not whole.
Where does that leave me? It just kills me. I have a wife that says I can have sex with another woman. All she wants to know is that if it happens to let her know and then she will never have sex with me again out of a fear of a sexual disease. Well it would not be a big loss for me if I am totally cut off because at this point our sexual contact happens maybe once a year. When it does happen it is worse than being with a dead fish. It is more like being with a cat that wants to escape. At this time I have a romantic love for another woman who is in activist group with me and she feels the same romantic love toward me. I want to have my wife feel this passion for me and not another women. I am pulled by a desire for to be with this whole passionate woman on one side and a religious love of God and Jesus on the other. I really do not know what I am going to do. I will most likely end up in arms of this woman. However: I really do not want the drama.
InJapan for your wife please man up and give her a loving kiss and a sexual massage. Even if you hate it do it to it anyway. Even a castrated man can be a whole man and use just a very little bit of creativity to sexual satisfy a woman. Please do it. That would be true love.
Timmy,
I am sincerely happy for you. Its too bad that it had to happen the way that it did, we all hope for full relationships with our spouses of course. But as far as I know you only live once and we all deserve to be fulfilled and happy in this life.
All I can say is to be careful not to over commit emotionally to your s/o, its an easy thing to do when you have been deprived for so long.
InJapan
All I can say is that if both you and your spouse are happy with your arrangement then great.
I think there are two issues at play here;
one is some people are just not sexual or uninterested in physical sex. I am like that and it sounds a good many wives are.
The second is how you view your husband and wife. Especially in Japan many people don’t view their spouse in a sexual way and it feels quite weird in some ways, The closer you become the less intimate sexually you become because you feel like family (mother and son/ brother and sister) as has been stated. My wife would be in this section as in I am family to her but for her pleasure it is another guy she meets.
What is the solution? I don’t know how to make someone interested in sex when they aren’t?
For the second problem I think most couples here have a “don’t ask don’t tell” feeling when it comes to extra martial sex and I think that feeling comes from both husbands and wives.
This all works for my wife and I, we both feel happy and fulfilled however for some people it just doesn’t work. I do think partners should try and reach each other half way however with regards to differences.
InJapan:
If you are an asexual man why did you get married? My younger brother is asexual and I love him to death. My younger relatives think he is gay because he is not married and has never had a girl friend from what they can see. I know my brother well since we are close in age. He just does not have an interest in sex with any gender. I get that. However: I am clueless why would an asexual person like you get married in first place ?
I also wonder why in Japan so many people both male and female are asexual. It is way beyond the norm of other areas of the world. Is it the diet? It is just way too strange.
In responce to 615 and 618
Mary;
AMEN!!!! I wish we could spread the word and have it believed. But for some odd reason, people who here those facts they blow them off as bogus.
I do agree that sex is alot more enjoyable whenn your with a loved one. but it is also nice just to be with some one you care for. I think you should not focus in just trying to find some non-Japanese to be with but a nice guy that just enjoy to be in your company. Best wishes.
And hang in there Timmy, I feel your pain brother.
InJapan
I kind of agree with Timmy. Why even get married? Why do you let your relationship get to that state? If the goal is to have children, don’t even bother just adopt a dog or some fish. That way when the divorse occurs, every one can walk away with out affecting anybody else. That thinking the other person as a brother or sister or whatever is the same bullshit excuse some guys and girls hear when they try to ask a girl or guy out they have known for years. Because “they don’t want to complicate the frienship”. That is a load of crap. Your spouse is not your sibling or a parent figure. your spouse is your SPOUSE, LOVER, LIFE PARTNER. You should never put your spouse in the same catagory as your sibling. Quite frankly, I think it is a hormonal issue for both guys and girls.
And if your still thinking your spouse as a sibling or parent figure? then for F@#K sake, have an Incestual F#@K session with that significant other then walk away from one another. Go to your local municipal office, drop off those divorce papers in the night box and call it a night…………………………………………………
IMO, people get married for companionship more than anything. The like the person and think of them as a life long partner or companion. This is outside of sex etc. However those other things like sex usually break people up. InJapan and his mate might think of each other as good companions and have a very full life outside of intimacy, since neither of them have a sexual desire for the other.
If one looks at Maslow’s hierarchy of human needs you will find that of the most basic human need is sexuality. Also up the scale again is the need for Love and Belonging which includes intimacy. Religion and society has managed to ingrain in peoples mind that fulfilling this natural basic human needs is wrong or dirty and should be controlled. Those beliefs are archaic and do not fit reality and does not serve to maintain the healthy human state of being. It was not until modern times that these needs were identified as true needs pertaining to basic human instinct.
I think InJapan has his situation well under control. From what he says both parties feel comfortable and satisfied in the marriage and in the relationship. He also states what should be the obvious truth by now to those who have followed this thread. It is that Normal Japanese culture puts husbands and wives in more of a blood relative scenario rather than the traditional Western romantic style of relationship. I just hope that when I come to Japan I will meet his wife as well as many other women seeking intimate encounters. I won’t ask and I ain’t tellin.
On another note, I think my wife thinks I am sleeping with someone else because of her suspicious behavior lately. I have cut our sex down to 1-2 times per month [mainly because of me being so busy lately as well as me not being too sexually attracted to her]. But when we do have sex I knock her socks off [so to speak], now she is trying to keep track of my every move and making sly comments. Also every night for the past week there has been some form of Tofu for dinner.
Cocunut
Thank you for you support. My wife and I both feel are marriage is very healthy in fact. We have been together a long time and still feel very close to each other.
(SIGH)…….. I guess I should eat my words and owe InJapan an apology. We should be so lucky to have a spouse like that. One that is willing to change emotionally, physically, and psychologically in the same direction as the other where it is acceptable in the relationship to seak the sexual and emotional intimacy from another outside the marriage. But it still begs to question, why does one spouse feels hurt and rejected because the other denies him/her sexually or emotionally; while at the sametime the denieing spouse feels the same negative feelings because that spouse discovers that they have been betrayed, but might have an understanding why the other spouse went astray? Yet the denieing spouse still denies that acknowledgement of fault to the cheating spouse.
Logically it makes no sense, But flukes do occur. So InJapan, consider yourselves, for a lack of better term, lucky. If you and your wife are satisfied with the state of your marriage, the so be it. Mor power to you. But the point the rest of us is trying to make is that we DIDN’T WANT TO GO OUTSIDE OF OUR MARRIAGES. We wanted a balanced marriage, it just happen to be that this thred has been provided for by those who are married to a Japanese person. The feeling of rejection, hurt and betrayal is not a Japanese thing. It is unfortunate that the sexless marriage issue is more prominant and more obvious in Japan or to those married to a Japanese (in relation to this thred).
The logic of marriage, outside of religion and the desire to propagate, was to be with someone(s) who you can relate to; emotionally, physically, and intelectually. At least in a polygamy relationship, if it is accomplished amongst consenting parties successfully, are all actively involved in the relationship.
But even the Japanese culture had always had a romanticized vision of a monogamous marriage. Look at there literature, legends and folk stories, you could even see it in there popular forms of entertaining media today; TV, manga, music, and movies. All the desires that a moderate “Westerner” wishes out of a marriage is not that much different from those of a moderate Japanese. And yet sex is still an issue.
D.C. 601:
I agree with much of what you said. However: the question I have to InJapan is why he does not enjoy being with his wife sexually. This is the question I have for all these Japanese women. Why is this activity not fun? The cost is zero. As shown earlier be Mary there are health benefits. In addition even if you do not like it why would you not do it to give the one you love some pleasure? We all do things for our spouse task we do not enjoy. Wash the dishes, do the laundry, mow the lawn, paint the house, go to a restaurant we may not like, and spend time with an In Law we really do not care for. What is the big deal in spending a half hour giving your husband or wife something they really love.
Again why can not an asexual person like InJapan give his wife some pleasure that she needs. He is basically hiring out this job like he would pay someone to mow his yard.
I just do not get.
I think InJapan and his wifes view point is;
There is an occasional need [he says about once a month].
He could try to fill the need, say like baking her a cake. But why go through all that trouble for a so-so cake when all she has to do is go to the Bakery and get exactly the cake she wants.
She sees no problem with it. And he sees no problem with it.
After she makes her trip to the Bakery, she comes back home satisfied. No harm, no foul. Everyone is happy…..InJapan, his wife, and the Baker. Its win-win all around.
imo, its very practical, its reality. For example if you are hungry, sure the first place you may look is your own kitchen to see if you can find some food. But if nothing is there its only natural to consider ordering out. If a wife makes it clear that she will not supply intimacy then a man should have no problems in ordering out. Same principle. Just do so with discretion and respect and all is well. The wife is happy because she does not have to perform, the hubby is happy because he can release his anxiety, and the other person is happy because they can scratch their itch as well.
Its no need to [force] yourself to conform to the Western “Norm” of a relationship. I think if people could get rid of all the stigmatizes society places on fulfilling natural desire things would go a lot smoother. And instead of Divorcing because of infidelity when otherwise the marriage is good, people would simply allow their mates to respectfully seek satisfaction without retribution and live otherwise happy lives.
Coconut
You explain my marriage better than I do! It is exactly like that. Yes, it is about once a month for the need, The funny think is if my wife was with someone who liked sex maybe once a month isn’t enough and they would be complaining about her?
Timmy
I am an asexual person and as Coconut puts it the situation at present works so much better than myself trying to force myself to do it and my wife being frustrated due to the so-so cake.
D.C. 601
Apology accepted, You are right, We are a very lucky couple but I would say that is just love that you try and work things out. With regards to sex I heard there are plenty of couples who have amazing sex but for other reasons can’t be together, they keep fighting, don’t have the same interests etc… so relationships are based on more than just sex.
All that is still iffy, though. More often than not jealousy kicks in if both members don’t keep their wits abbout them.
InJapan,
Unfortunately I have seen the truth in divorces amongst some of my friends and aquantiinces. Sex, like money, is not the only focus in a marriage. BUT….
There is that BUT again…
But leave a small problem lingering long enough without paying any attention then it will be a big problem, and possibly dangerous. Leave a pot of boiling water continous boiling on the lowest heat level, you will have that hot water. Leave it unattended, it will slowly evaporate. Completely ignore it, the water will eventually be gone, the pot might be damaged and you could possibly have a fire on your hands. Your are right sex, is not the only focus in marriages. Neither is money, emotional intimacy, nor intellectual stimiulation, but those have been the grounds for many divorces (outside of abuse or an unjustifiable sence of mistrust that could lead up to violence.)
So, like I said, InJapan. You and your wife are the lucky ones. Just be sure you and your wife keep your wits about you as you progress through your marriage. But for the rest of us, we should just be discreet and respectful when we seek intimacy, in what ever form, outside of our marriages. But none of us should be caught off our guard if we are discovered and our partners are angry and wish to get a divorce. Not all partners will be as understanding as those in the relatioship similar to that of InJapan.
As for the food euphamism, I would like to say we are culinary literate in my home and in all actuality, I like my baked cheese cake best and my wifes soba and our nights of izakaya style foods. But I do feel like a Big Mac every once in awhile.
The Key to marriage, like in life, is balance. That is why Cookie Monster doesn’t eat only cookies. He likes crunchy fruits and veggies and his mom’s lasagna……….
As far as I know, The Cookie Monster only eats Cookies.
But is this balance you speak of an excuse to indulge in other females besides the one flavor you have at home?
Is it variety you seek or balance?
Coconut
You don’t see much Sesame Street, do you? Your missing out…..
Indulgence in other partners would be the result of someone NOT being in a BALANCED marriage. NOT the result of someone IN a balanced marriage. But as for “flavors” go, food stuffs are inadimate objects, you can’t interact or converse with food. But a good marriage patner will converse and interact with you, will even try new things every once in a while, and that is in all aspects of a marriage. Plus, my apple pie at home will not leave me or spit out its apple filling if I bring home a strawberry short cake.
Anyway, it is balance I wish for myself. For my own reasons, I REALLY desire for my wife. She actually does it for me.
But what I mean about balance in a marriage is the relative definition of a happy marriage. A marriage where one doesn’t feel the need to “indulge” in other women, because they are HAPPY in that marriage.
For those who are married and are (sorry for the cliche) but driven to seek intimacy outside of their marriages; do it because they’re not getting that intimacy at home. Either because of hormones imbalance from having children, worklife, or some other emotional or non-emotional changes. These are choices that are made because that person feels like they are out of options. I know how I felt when went outside of my marriage, and I know how it feels now when I try and fail to get my wife interested again.
Those that wish variety in their marriage, the issue is with the individual(s) (that’s if both parties are involved). The individual desires and actively seeks variety, even when everything is good in the marriage. Those individuals in an unhappy marriage, feel justified in their desire and seeking of variety. It is a choice that is made freely and with little regard to the marriage.
If “indulging” is what you want to do then one should stay single or marry a similar person that has the same train of thought as you about marriage.
If your looking for an example of people living outside an “archaic” institution in regards to mariage and are relatively succesful, look at Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn. They are not married, but apparently they believe in a monogamist romance and apparently it has been working for them.
D.C.
You make valid points, I do agree.
I appreciate the comment. But this argument doesn’t even cover the hang-ups that some people experience, which weren’t really expected, or at least were unwelcomed. It took me a while to learn how to avoid such hang ups.
I’ve pretty much read this whole thread, took hours, and oh boy. Fuck me.
Im 26, had a japanese gf. we both studied here in the USA and recently graduated. she went back home, i said no im gona work on my american dream (im an international student here)
Shes a really nice girl, she pretty much ‘domesticated’ me by cooking doing household chores and for a while I thought wow a loyal stay at home girl in LA – what are the chances. On her side she says I treat her better than japanese men, and our babies would be so ‘cute’.
Naturally when she left I missed her, especially since shes been trying to make me ‘hate her’ cos she is “back in japan life is so different”. I am so fucking thankful she did after reading this thread. All those emo times listening to postrock music and dreaming of flying to japan on a whim makes me wana puke now. I am seeing almost point-by-point templates because of what i see similiarities of her and her mom – the fridgidness of the mother to her husband, fathers “funny” obsession with school girl magazines, mothers vibrator. this mother has only held part time jobs which she uses the money for herself, takes trips like she just got out of jail for weeks without informing anyone (talking about the mother still) and many more. I remember casually saying ‘they live like roomates so which one has a lover’. I bring out the mother because I see so many similarities of this girlfriend and mother(she was the only child). I thought my mother has issues, but comparatively, my mom looks like Mother Theresa – amusing since its not like this ex girlfriends parents are in constant state of crisis, just its like living a bottled placid state of nightmare.
I do realize that im what some referred to as ‘junior’ here, but this thread has me turned off marriage completely. Im sure as hell gonnna miss the cooking and the low maintenance but better than to be trapped with all the innocent look.
Would def appreciate any advice but for now Im going to fuck that polish girl without feeling guilty !
I am glad this thread has helped someone avoid a life time of hell.
LA Person you made a wise choice, if you ever do try Japanese again make it only sex and don’t knock her up.
You did good by looking at the mother….Apples dont fall too far from the tree.
Mean while I am going to try to have sex this morning with my J-wife, lets see how it goes.
LA;
Good for you, but don’t get completely turned off by J-girls(J-boys). Just be aware that the one that can meet our needs after marriage or children without going completely placid is truelly a diamond in the ruff. Wait till your done with everything; school, career, and your dating/fucking hunger. Get all that settled to a managable place in your life then settle down. Just bewarn, even the sexless marriages affect those married to any kind of woman/man. Make sure you make it clear to your future spouse that changes will occurr which can’t be controlled but that you want to remain romatically and sexually active in your marriage. And if problems start showing up, bring them to light and fix them as soon as you guys can. That way you can avoid going through what some of us has gone through, including opening yourself up to a thred like this one.
Might be a realist, but my optimism kicks in every once in awhile.
Actually being completely turned off by J-people is the perfect thing to do, this way you will never make the mistake of marrying one.
No need to look through a pile of crap for a diamond in the rough, its crap and they are all fake, just look elsewhere.
I’m just saying, It takes work to find the right one. Plus, I think you did the same mistake as I did. Not talk about it/deal with it before it got bad. A few of my friends are happy. They even have children, and are still active. So it is not all bad.
About sex with the wife, as expected its a no-go.
All is dry, cold and dead-fish like at the home front.
In addition to the sex issue anyone ever notice any odd personality quirks from their J-mates??
Like someone posted before about their spouse, I really do think mine has a mental problem or at the very least some kind of personality disorder.
@ Coconut;
It has nothing to do with sexless thread but since you’ve mentioned it I might as well share my story to you to have some mirror.About the mental issue thing,you have to be very careful about that, since you do something crazy she will just do extremely un imaginable payback.
Ok here’s my story,I am a japanese guy and( brought up in the US).I brought up myself in the U.S I should say.During my early twenty’s I wante dto have some challenges so I went to th U.S. to learn english,I fell inlove to L.A. and the american life, and I felt like this is the place where I belong. I went for my master’s degree then PhD.And live and work in the US.Its been 30 years ago.OK let’s jump to my second marriage.She was introduced to me by my mother she’s Japanese of course, a very majime(she’s the quite-know’s-everything-type), very good house keeper according to my motehr etc. etc. my regret I still listened to my mother and was still scared of her those day’s(that japanese portion of me has remained).She was brought to the US and then we moved back to japan because of work first four years it was ok,we had two kids and then we lived a quite, boring, typical japanese family live’s.I work she stays at home.She’s from Inaka we lived in Tokyo so she didn’t fit in. Problem began there whic I didnt notice, I didnt notice she doesnt have friends.I love to have people coming (company people) to my house for barbecues and all that, she get along with the flow.During those year’s I have never noticed she never invited anyone, She never go out without me.I was too busy to notice.After four years we need to go back to L.A.(the place where I belong) She loves the place too but she just doesnt fit in. She has started hating and refusing to accept visitor’s,She hated me going to my Christian church, She would like to stick in her Buddhist belief(which doesnt have any problem with me,but she used to be so submissive in front of my mother) She hated me visiting the grave of my dead son in a previous marriage. She hated being the second wife.She get’s paranoid.That was nine years of marriage and there was a lot of hidden things that I never knew and she confessed towards the end so I decided to get divorced(after many times of trying to fix it).
Our whole marriage was a performance.So initially she agreed to get divorce .I checked from the lawyer in L.A. how to amicably get divorce and I told my wife the cost and necessary thing’s to do.She said it’s too expensive,she doesnt want me to spend anything(note this,all Japanese lady’s are like this).She offered we should dissolve our marriage in Japan since are Japanese and we registered our marriage there.I told her we need to split thig’s from top to bottom and I will support the kids(I love my kid’s) and gave her choice to live in the US while I support them but she said she needs to go back to Japan(since it is hard to raise kids w/o her parents moral support,If she gets divorce) she can work(she was a pharmacist back then) she doesnt need my support.So we agreed we will go to Japan as a family trip and dissolve our maariage there,we all go back together in the US and prepare for her and the kids to move back to Japan.So we will wait until spring vacation for them to finally move back.
During these period of time ther’s a lot more performances she did but I would just jump to thme finally moving back to Japan,I shipped all the stuffs she wanted to have.I went for the business trip for two weeks and when I came back to the US I was served with dissolution of marriage petition. Shocked. I found out while I was on a trip they went immediately back to athe US she has changed her mind get a legal advisor.And decided to screw me.(I could never believe that dumb looking quite,anti-social obaasang managed to get a lawyer and bunch of religious obaasang croonies) During the dissolution proceeding’s she made it soo hard,she pretended she doesnt undstand any english(which is a fucking lie) so she needed to have translator(at my cost),I also have to pay for her lawyer and mine, and temporary support while(still proceedings is going on).She and her lawyer made-up a lot of expenses for kid’s naraigoto(cram school) and she also need to improve her english so judge ordered me to pay for her schoolings,during the mediation she never agrees to anything.During that time I just wanted to move on and make it all done and all I care was the welfare of my kids,I was willing to pay and follow whatever judge ordered me to do but that fucking bitch prolonged it the dissolution proceedings lasted 2 years and four month’s. 2 years and four month’s of fighting for nothing,s he dig and dig and dig through my accounts and properties and she dig thorugh my mother’s accounts and accusing me of hiding my earnings letting my mother keep it just incase divorce arise she fought for half of the house that my mother bought long before she came into our live’s.She fought tooth and nail and the cost of that legal battle,lawyer fee’s, unnecessary supprot made me almost broke and traumatised.
Later did I realized she has paranoai depression and schezoprhenia( amental dis-order so subtle that the cna just play it around) Now she is ruining my reputation to my kid’s she not-stoppingly blames me for anything and for everything.Make this as a mirror when you ever decided to get divorce think of it carefully,know your rights, and choose the right place and dont be naive and dont believe too much of whatever they say.Never screw a Japanese woman they will hate you to their grave.
I also heard a lot worst but similar presonalities to my ex and similar thing’s they did during the divorce.ahhhhh they’re and they will get even crazier when they need too.
Nihonjin_Here
My heart goes out to you. Unfortunately I have heard of such a story we just don’t we dont run into those kinds of girls/guys. You should have fought for the kids. Since you are the soul bread earner. But my condolecense, see this is why “you” yourself should do the work finding your girl/guy. Because if you leave it to your parents, whose got the old school mentality, they might easily suckered by a nice face or a girl/guy with traditional back ground. There is a reason why parental match making occurences have been great fodder for sitcoms, dramas, and movies. Hell, I see similar stories come up on TV. Not entirely a shocker, but stiill makes you want to say,”That is fucked up!!!”
Coconut
I was wondering why you were so grumpy before. Time to head out to the Red light or hook u your FB…….. I am sorry.
Does anybody else notice the irony with the dating ad that is attached to this thred and what we’re talking about. I just think that is a little wierd, borderline inappropriate.
Nihonjin,
Wow, your second marriage/divorce reminds me of my first marriage/divorce…it took a long time and was a bitter ugly battle.
About the schezoprhenia and depression….I too can honestly say mine must have some mild form of some mental disorder. In fact she knows she is not 100% normal and I have seen her literally fight to keep a sane mindset. I know when it starts to flare up or get worse, but its really always there in the back ground. She too is very paranoid.
Thanks for sharing.
@D.C.,
FB…yeah I have been seriously thinking about that.
D.C 601 and Cocunut, thank you !
Reading yours, and all others who have opened up here, left me feeling that we’re friends. Like reading a book that you know the author so well.
Here’s a beer to all of you !
I sincerely hope things would get better for all of you so much so as I see really good and honest people trying to make their marriages work (and one funny dude who was selling his wares).
I would get flamed for this but – I think polygamy was after all a grand idea
@ D.C. 601
and coconut
Thank’s for listening. Yeah during that time I was really fucked up but, thinking about it now, I am very glad I got out of that marriage.It was a dull,dry like an air marriage(Like almost all the general marriages you’ve had). I am now married to a Filipina I’ve met at the University I’m teaching,and been happily married for nine years. And yeah the judge granted me 50/50 custody for kid’s.In retrospect I am glad they didnt go back to Japan otherwise I would never have seen my children again.
LA Person:
I am glad you found this site before it was too late. For me it was too late.
Please walk away from the relationship you have with this Japanese woman. Maybe before you do that have her read all of the over 600 post and let us know her feed back.
In the article at the link below the author makes the following statement, “Women are intended to be helpmates, not soul mates.”
http://www.henrymakow.com/dumping_my_dream_girl.html
I think for the most part we find that Japanese women to be excellent helpmates. However: they suck at being a soul mate. It is the case in my marriage. The author does give an interesting conclusion. I know that I have time for energy elsewhere because my wife is a such a great helpmate? I have time for my hobbies, sports, and political activism. This is all true. However: that does not stop me from having a desire to hold and be with another woman that came into my life. Can I divorce my help mate wife and find a more fulfilling life with this other women I do love and who is truly my soul mate. I hunger for her so very much. However: so much of my life would be turned around if I got a divorce to be with her. I know the free time in my life for other activities would drop greatly. The time I would have with my college age kids would also be limited. I know it just would not be worth it. Logic sends me one way and My sexual and emotional needs just push me in a different directions. In addition it just would not be fair to this woman to have an affair with her? In a way it would just be a selfish act on my part. I am just torn.
On a little bit different topic. My 20 year old son came home from college for a few days. My wife will with out being asked by him massage his back and give him a back adjustment. Being the son of a chiropractor I taught her how to do this simple adjustment. It would be nice if she would do the same to me now and then. However: she will not even touch me. It is like what the F. It is the weirdest feeling in the world to be jealous of your own son being massaged by your own wife. I kind of get it but it still freaks me out that I have this jealous feeling. She treats me like her brother and because this is the case she does not want to touch me. Who wants to give your brother or sister a massage? I sure would not care to do it.
It kind of sucks to be me. But in another way it is good to be me. I do have fun doing outside activities without my wife. She does allow me the time and freedom for this. I have a whole world of friends and activities outside of her life.
Timmy;
What a dilemma, I would even think Dr. Phil might have a hard time answering that one, but he would eventually come to a well thought out answer. Sooner than I could. But you have one advantage over us…… Your kids are growing, and there is, really, nothing to tie you down .
I meant “grown”
LA Person,
When I got married, I had no idea what I was getting into.
I am glad that you did not waste YEARS of your life in misery, married to a Japanese woman.
It’s good to know that our writings of our experiences have saved a life.
Best of luck with a Polish (or any) woman! If you find a good one, they are wonderful, but there are some bad ones too… so be careful!
D.C. 601:
You wrote:” there is, really, nothing to tie you down .”
I would have to say in a small way you are correct. However: I have been married 27 years and as a result my wife and I have many things we own together. I know it would be very difficult to divide equally the three homes we have and everything we have. Two can live almost at the same cost as one if things are shared. My life as a result would become much more difficult if I lived on my own.
Even though my children are older I still know it would hurt them if I left my wife for another. In addition my time with them would be greatly reduced if I left.
In addition I have come close to my nephew and niece on my wife’s side of the family. I would most likely hardly ever see them if I left my wife. My brothers and sisters love my wife so they would also be saddened.
As the song goes Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose. I do not have freedom because I do have many things to lose if I dumped my wife. I am for the most part tied down.
My sex drive is very strong. It is probably higher than most men and I am married to an asexual Japanese woman. My wife is a kind woman and we get along together for the most part. I do hang out now and then with another woman that I love and she also feels the same towards me. Is my love so strong that I should leave my wife for her? Sometimes I can honestly say yes and when I think about it logically I say no.
My wife says at times that I can take on a girlfriend. In a way I have developed a relationship with anther woman. However: I respect this woman a great deal and I want to be fair to her. I do not want to use her for my own needs. I do not want to do this to any woman. I do not think there is a solution to my situation.
All men should avoid being in my situation and run away and do not walk from any Japanese woman you meet.
Timmy
Those are factors in a equation that was unknown. And by the sound of your writing, you do value the relationships of your your family on both sides of the family, which I can greatly respect. Also the fact that the your wife practically gave you permission to have a girlfriend, tells me she is aware of the situation in your sexlife, or the lack there of. It also shows that she is civil towards you. so how about seeking help together if it is your wife you want to be with.
I don’t know if you guys have seeked counseling, but that is an option. Another option I suggest is actually a medical evaluation. I use to work as a medical technician in the service and I work in an office full of women that this subject pops up every once in while (which is code for frequently). But I’ve picked up some things, thanks also to the help of Dr. Oz to confirm this. But since women go through more hormonal changes than men, the lack of sex drive could most likely linked to these hormonal changes. And it could be verified with a medical examination. But be wiery for a possible fight, because, in essence, your actually letting her know that there could be something wrong with her. But reassure her that it is out of her control and that it is only a suggestion if she is willing.
I myself honor the sense of family, from both sides, but I also understand how uncomfortable it could get in a marriage if one or the other is unhappy or unsatisfied. Your families should respect you decision to either save your marriage or your sanities and they should love you none the less, even if they are a liittle hurt.
It is your call, but best wishes, best of luck, and my heart goes out to you. Take care.
D.C. 601:
Thank you for a thoughtful response. My wife is a typical modern Japanese woman. She would never receive counseling with me for this situation. She would not even read this article when asked by me. She is just like many other Japanese woman who are married with children in that they believe it is the norm not to have sex with your husband. She is happy the way she is so why would she want things to change.
Is it a hormonal problem? I think in part in might be. We live in the USA but she mainly eats a Japanese type of diet. I think it could be the high soy content in the Japanese diet that creates a hormonal imbalance that leads to asexuality. It is just a theory but something is going on in Japanese women that is more than just cultural. Culture can only partially hold back ones sex drive for only so long. For example I am a Christian and culturally it is wrong to have sex outside of marriage. My sex drive is so very strong that I stepped outside of this cultural norm a few times.
What the heck is going on in Japan? See the link below. Is someone putting a drug in their Ocha to keep them from being frisky?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/14/japanese-men-losing-sex-d_n_809271.html
Could have something to do with these
http://endojourney.wordpress.com/2009/07/31/a-list-of-xenoestrogens/
I have an idea that the Rabbit hole goes deeper than we are looking.
Timmy
It was just an idea. I actually thought she might go for it. Only because she practically gave you the green light to go outside the marriage. Well, atleast you know you have some options to try. I am going to read those articles now lets see what they say.
Coconut:
I think you are on to something about Xenoestrogens. I do see soy is on the list. No tofu for me and I am going to pour out the soy milk my wife uses and replace ii secretly with organic half and half.
See the article on soy. Japanese eat more than any other people in the world.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53327
I am one of those wacky conspiracy theorist. There is evidence that an elite want to reduce the population of the world to 500 million. see the following link of the Georgia Guide stones.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones
One way these elite can reducing the population is by war and disease. For example 911 was an inside job to promote war in the middle east. Another example AIDS was created to reduce the population of blacks. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33695-2005Jan24.html
I also believe that Xenoestrogens have been put out there purposely to feminize the male population to make us less aggressive so that we can be controlled. In addition this will increase homosexuality and asexuality that will results in fewer rug rats. Am I the only one that notices that the young men today have narrower shoulders than their grand fathers. Young women also seem to have hips more narrow. The differences between the sexes have become less. How many people do we see today that we have to question if they are a man or woman. This never happened when I was young. The young Japanese men today especially look like girlie men where as their fathers look much more masculine.
Not every race will be effected by Chemicals in the same way. For example many Japanese like my wife are allergic to alcohol. It is more rare to see this in Scandinavians. Could it be that the Japanese because of their biology are more sensitive to Xenoestrogens and as a result now have a higher rate of asexuality than other people groups ?
Timmy, yes I have noticed that too…in fact I have bought it up many times to friends but people seem oblivious to it or just blindly accepting. I see an alarming rate of gay-ish young men now-a-days and women are increasingly becoming more man-like and violent. Not only with the less broad shoulders of males but the increased rate of men with boobs, and women with increased facial hair.
In addition the American culture as a whole has steadily been female-power oriented. From the fashion of women wearing broad shouldered sports coats and cloths back in the 80′s, to movies like G.I Jane, Lorah Croft and a variety of other unrealistic super females who manage to beat up 250lb men easily, and the list goes on and on. Slogans like “Strong enough for a man but made for a woman” being replaced by “Strong enough for a woman but made for a man” and other slogans being made to cater to women being stronger and more in charge and men being more frail and weak. Beer commercials and the like regularly show men as week and stupid compared to their female counter parts.
In many ways its all very subtle but it is consistent and persistent. Notice on the list of Xnoestrogens that they are regularly put into skin care products to be absorbed 100% into the skin. They serve no purpose but to increase estrogen, they have no smell and do not enhance the product in any other way.
I could go on, but you and I see eye to eye on this subject. Its ashamed that the rest of society seems to blind and it is discouraging to know that all this in being done purposely.
As far as the Japanese are concerned. I think their culture took a turn right after WWII, before that the culture was more into war mongering much like many war-like nations are today. After that the county did an about face and became total opposite. So much so, that today the average Japanese has no ability to even interpret danger or violence the same as they used too. For example the Japanese who went to Iraq to ‘see’ what the war their was like, as if it were a tourist event. Ultimately they were killed. The culture changed in many ways though many avenues from TV, to music, relationships, duty, even in some ways the dynamics between husbands and wives.
Now Japan is full of females who never mature fully into women until late in age and when they do they are less woman and more just a asexual human being. And men who are more female looking, soft and fragile than previous generations, even looking in many ways more like women than men. IMO, Japan was an experiment to see how a society can be molded and changed, but the experiment has left the culture at the edge of being extinct.
You guys are jumping to conclusions. That list of xenoestrogens Timmy posted was mostly compiled from cancer prevention websites, nothing to do with asexuality. Which brings me to my point: there are a lot of chemicals out there that are doing a lot of different things to the people that are exposed to them. Cancer, autism, maybe even sexlessness. But there is no evidence to suggest that it is being done for any reason other than to maximise the profits of the companies that make the products. No-one is in control of the human race, and thats our main problem, not conspiracies.
I don’t know what the cause for the sexual problems in Japan are, but I will note that sexlessness is a growing problem here in the west too.
I also want to add that my girlfriend is Japanese and she’s wonderful. We’ve had our problems, and I’m sure we’ll have more, but you get that in any relationship, with people from any culture.
I think the key word McLovin wrote is “girlfriend”. Tick-tock, tick-tock…
McLovin:
It is a conspiracy if the members of the corporation know the products they produce are harmful.
The research shows the problem is greater in Japan than anywhere else in the world. Please dump your girlfriend before it is too late. I doubt very much there will be much loving if you marry this Japanese girl and have kids with her.
Timmy, I agree about corporations knowingly adding harmful or otherwise useless [with regards to the advertised product] ingredients to products. However the word “conspiracy” automatically voids any merit in the minds of many, no matter how strong the evidence.
Anyways, I also agree that McLovin should RUN not walk away from any committed relationship with J-women. Have fun, but never say those famous words that turn women from Ms. Jekyll into Mrs. Hyde.
Also noticing the increased number of “men with boobs” has actually given me some hope. You see, my dear, lovely, sweet Japanese wife (which is true in so many ways, though there’s also a touch of sarcasm in my description) has never liked me to touch her breasts. Of course, she didn’t tell me that for a long, long time, and I long thought her lack of response had more to do with her self-consciousness about that part of her body since she is, like many Japanese women, rather flat-chested. No matter what I did in that area — things that had worked well with every previous partner — there was no reaction from her. Of course, that’s true with most of her body, and after a while, I came to realize that just about the only erogenous zone she seemed to have is her p#$$¥! That makes for a real challenge because while I absolutely love that area, she also doesn’t like me going straight for that every time I want to turn her on. In general, that’s not what I would want to do anyway — and besides, like most women, she doesn’t enjoy that if she isn’t first turned on to at least some degree. However, there don’t seem to be any words I can say or write, any situation we could plan or accidentally find ourselves in, any type or amount of household responsibilities I could do, or anything else that could ever excite her with any degree of reliability whatsoever at any point in our now over 18 years together.
As most of you will not be surprised to learn, no amount of effort on my part has ever motivated her to tell me what turns her on. Her usual reaction to being asked my me — even during what I thought were the closest, most trusting moments of our relationship — has often been to shrug her shoulders and say, “I don’t know.” I forced myself to open up about all sorts of things that were not at all easy for me to talk about, thinking that the trust I showed her would help to motivate her to trust me. But nothing I’ve done has ever resulted in her sharing with me such information — or even, if she truly doesn’t know, in motivating her to put a little bit of effort into trying to learn more about her own body and find out what does turn her on.
So, back to those man boobs! Why do they give me hope? Well, even though my wife’s breasts are fairly small, I love her body, including her breasts. She knows that, and even though I’ve reassured her and complimented her again & again & again over many, many years, but that makes no difference — nor does the knowledge she has that at least playing along with me once in while would be a great turn on for me. So, I figure that after all these years of making no progress with her resistance to me kissing or even just touching them, I at least have some hope that I will develop man boobs that I will find attractive enough to touch! And in that case, I know that when I’m really not in the mood, I’ll turn myself down in a way that is loving and understanding, rather than treat myself as if I’m just selfish and there’s something wrong with me!
Sometimes, we latch on to hope wherever we can find it!
- K
P.S. This thread is still going! Wow! My first post was almost 4 years ago!
paste this article title into Google
Is there sex after marriage to a Japanese woman?
mitaboy
That article was not written by a Japanese person, nor was it written by a person with actual first hand experience with a J-woman. Being the husband of a J-wife and having many J-friends for over a decade I can tell when someone speaks of the Japanese if they have first hand experience or not.
These magical two parts they talk about is rubbish.
Part 1: You need to communicate with your Japanese lover early in the relationship – before you get married – so that you both understand how important sex should be to each other. Set expectations early so that there are no surprises or disappointments!
It does not matter if you talk about it or not. The fact is women have already calculated the risks and truly expect the men to do nothing less than a normal J-man would do….golf, drink, other women etc. The Japanese do not have a Western view of marriage, its not something you can “talk about” to make them change their expectations that have been in ingrained in culturally with a conversation or two.
Part 2: You need to help your Japanese woman understand how sexual pleasure can be a healing and relaxing part of a relationship. If you help your woman understand how good sex can be for her, she is more likely to keep you satisfied as well.
This is a fools hope. This won’t even work on American women….been there done that. Dream on, the author of the article has no idea how the culture works and how difficult or impossible it is to change the very person you are….in Japan culture runs deep into the actions and way of living, its not as superficial as it is in America to Americans.
I see the article was written by someone called Xandar……Google Tianna Xandar…no doubt the same person.
@Coconut – I suspect that article was probably written by mitaboy himself…
Coconut:
I agree with you that you can not make a change in Japanese women by talking with her. Yes, the culture does run deep. Not just about sex about almost everything else in life I am to understand that this is what the Japanese do and think. It does not matter that we live in the USA. The Japanese way is the way everything is to operate in our marriage.
this advice is good.
[...] its like to be foreigner and female in Japan Sexless Japan-Really? Stippy has amazing [...]
I have been having some interesting dialog with a married Japanese female. She is in her mid 30′s and her husband is in his upper 40′s. The dialog has been about love and relationships as well as H [sex]. Apparently a sexless Japanese marriage is just as common as it appears and the normal rate of sex [for those who even have sex] is on the order of 1 time every few months. This she says is very normal amongst anyone who has been married for more than a few years. In her situation it has been more than a year since she has had sex with her husband and she has no plans on having sex again now that they have a child. She wonders why her husband does not seem interested in her and ignores her so much which has made the feeling of love very low or all but gone in her marriage. There is no correlation between sex, and affection to love. Apparently Japanese women feel men should be as interested and loving towards their wives even if there is no sex and no affection.
I must say, it has been a treat to get first hand information from the “Horses mouth” about Japanese women. However, even though this seems to be the norm there are exceptions, so some lucky man just might marry a hentai J-female. She says that some of her female friends do have sex on a regular basis but not with their husbands. And that some females do like sex more than others but usually they are not married and are probably younger.
I don’t even need to read anything here.. japan doesnt understand the concept of marriage. everyone has sex with everyone, its basically one big orgy. I have been working in a bar here for 5 years and the shit I’ve heard and seen you “average” married man do would make anyone cry with jealousy…
statistics are pointless cause the sex that does happen here is not talked about.
the end.
Knowitall:
I lived in Japan in the early eighties. I also have seen a great deal. This topic is about the kind of weird situation in Japan in that married couples rarely have sex.
Japan is a paradox. One can have sex freely. However: rarely is it with your spouse.
I live in the USA at this time. My Japanese wife will not have sex with me. However: she does not care if I have sex with another women. She just does not want to know the details. This is not an unusual situation in Japan. However: in the rest of the world this would be very unusual.
Timmy
I remember reading this, I don’t know, something like a year ago. It’s really taken on a life of it’s own — seriously, you should turn this into a book or something! The real-life research alone is kind of amazing. Since the first time I read this — I guess it was more that a year ago — I got married, and things are good! I think the important point was to talk about it first, making sure we’d both be “into” staying physical even after the wedding. Also my wife is really independent and not like many of the Japanese who I meet, except in public, where such-and-such manners are expected and appropriate. Actually, I’d bet that most people are really different in private that in public. It’s funny how we met, actually. She runs a salon and one day I needed a haircut. I could see this place from where I was teaching at the time. We’d met once or twice before, but I went in and I just never gave up. Persistence, man. Six months, seven months later, the polite distance was completely gone and it’s been awesome ever since. I don’t really know what’s gonna happen when someday we have kids — the “thin walls” point — but we’ve agreed to keep intimacy an important part of life, and that’s the plan. For people who are struggling now, I’d say, maybe a little less talk and a little more boldness? Just do? I just find that “talking about it” kills the mood. For what it’s worth. Best to you all!
Adam Rotmil:
Just do not have kids. Once that happens you will be last on your old ladies list.
Oh, I hope that isn’t true. Having a child is part of our dream. I mean, mine too. Yeah I know, it means being woken up every hour for a long time, lots more responsibility. I imagine though a kind of joy that can’t be described in any other way, in spite of the challenge of raising a child. Everyone has a past, so yeah, the unattached girlfriend days are over. And I don’t miss those days because somehow I always knew it would end eventually. Finally, it doesn’t end. I accept that problems are very common in Japan, but I also think a happy and passionate marriage, even with a child, is possible. Even if it’s the exception. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong, but we trust each other. I think it will be overall very good, and faithful. That’s about all I can really say.
Adam Rotmil:
The odds are your Japanese wife will ignore your sexual needs and hers once the child is born. All her passion will be placed on your child. She will be a great mother and most likely a terrible lover.
Timmy
Men never listen, maybe this is why mankind has lasted so long after all….People warned me, and those before me too. None of us listened as a result we had kids and eventually divorced etc….
The cycle continues…..
Go ahead Rotmil, why should you be any different.
This whole thing can be partially summed up by looking at the “Sunk Cost Fallacy” where someone invests X-amount of money/time/emotion into something. Once the investment is made there is an emotional obligation to stick with it in order to reap the ‘imagined’ reward.
Usually over time the person ‘sinks’ further into the whole as his investment turns into a bust.
I know many with automatically disagree without even thinking about it. But we see it all the time in every aspect of our lives.
If the relationship is great in the beginning [as they always are], which way can it possibly go from there? Better….no likely, stay the same….possible but not probable, gradually get worse…this is the case in the great majority of relationships throughout time. Throughout the history of man-kind on Earth, men and women have historically gone down the same path as time goes on in their relationships [no matter what race]. Yet somehow we keep clinging to a “Dream” and a “Hope” thinking it will “Be like this always….” Of course there are some exceptions to this which means there is always a chance.
This forum has helped some men to face the reality of marriage, esp. the marriage of a Japanese woman. Its not likely to help every man, some will still let their judgment be clouded by Love, Hope, Desire, Foolishness. etc. All I can say is if/when it happens to warn others not to make the same mistake.
This married Japanese female I am emailing with right now is 10 years younger than my wife and from a different part of Japan. Yet she is so much like my wife its scarey, even when I described my wife to her, she was amazed how similar they are…. Yet her and all of her friends marriages ended up the exact same way. Odd thing is she told me that it is good that women complain….she said that she heard that “If women did not complain in marriage the divorce rate would be higher”. I said WTF??? I asked her does she honestly think that her husband thinks to himself how lucky he is because he wife complains all the time? Like a mother who complains to her children to “Pick up their socks”, “Clean up their room”….etc. she thinks that this is what keeps men loyal and loving to women…..logic is men love their mothers, even though their mothers complain all the time. Insane thinking…..
wow,
after seeing you guys chat and discuss, i believe that some “anomaly” like cheating would be “not anomaly” if people permit it.
in my country such behaviour (cheat) would be punished, not only with social but with law. and it ended up with “marital compromise”. such compromise, showing only wife can have husband. and with such compromise, people live with healthier family and healthier live.
maybe you guys can have so much bigger salary than people in my country, but if it compare with enjoyable of live my people should be get so much bigger than yours
with happy family and no cheating
@Fall
Which country do you live in?
BTW, Japan Law permits a man to divorce his wife if she does not have sex with him…neglect.
However most men do not take advantage of that law as they themselves are probably not interested in sex with their wives. Instead why not just have a house-keeper who cooks etc. and have sex with someone else outside the home. Japanese mistresses are much much more understanding than American mistresses. A Japanese mistresses will not cause trouble in the mans marriage, she will give him space and time because she understands her role. Also if the wife found out about the mistress, the wife could sue the mistress for damages and get money.
The culture is unique, but people who value emotional Love and closeness should avoid it.
fall:
I am in agreement with you that in a culture with no cheating and a bonding between the husband and wife you will have a happy family and the end result will be enjoyable and healthy life. I would love to have a wife that has desire for emotional love with the end result being physical with each other. It is now my lot in life that this is not going to happen. It is the lot in the life of thousands of men who are married to Japanese women. If I were to guess I would say you are from a Muslim country or one with a strong Christian tradition.
Coconut:
In Japan what do you think the mistress get out of the relationship? Do you think as a rule they have no desire to be married. Are many of the mistresses married but to another man.
FSD? FSAD? TAKERS?
Timmy
Some mistresses get their sexual desires fulfilled and yes some are married. I know some of them, including the one I am communicating with via email. Others get money out of the deal, I knew at least two of these type myself. They were mistresses to men who made lots of money and much older. The men payed for their apartments and gave them cash. The female I am talking too via email is married and has made it clear that if I were in Japan we could definitely have a sexual relationship together. She knows i am married to a Japanese female and that is no problem for her.
Another female I knew was married but lived apart from her husband. She was not in a relationship with any other men but many if not most of her married female friends had lovers on the side and few slept with their husbands. In fact she said that when she did have sex with her husband she gave him 60 seconds and would literally count to herself. When the 60 seconds were up she would make him stop. Perhaps this is why he left I don’t know.
18 years of relationship, 12 of marriage. Sex practically non-existent, absolute soulmates, absolutely faithful to each other. Spend all our time outside work together. Very very happy, I think.
I’ve been told Japanese are all emotion and little reason; also place an enormous stress on inside and outside.
Well, the trick then is to think emotionally and treat the mate as the ultimate insider. She does. I’ve learned to.
All our arguments without exception have started in logic.
Forget it. Just live with the heart.
Sex is so secondary, ultimately.
There are other ways to be close.
What about Japanese men that choose a sexless marriage? All I’ve read is comments from men either married to or involved with Japanese women who are either happy or getting it elsewhere mainly with permission. But what about the foreign women married to Japanese men who just can’t. No way in the world will they go to find out if it is something physically wrong. Its just “culture” what the??? How do non-Japanese women out there cope with it?
@flowers
There are a few posts up there from women married to J-men. Most women probably just do the smart thing and leave. Sunk-cost thinking refers to men more than women usually.
@Alex
If sex is non-existent in your marriage, then its way lower than being secondary. If you enjoy the close brother-sister relationship or room-mates type of life style then more power to you.
Enjoy!
makes marriage a bad joke
I have been married twice- both times to japanese women. I can truthfully say I found both to be very selfish and self-serving in the relationship. Having a large number of friends marry, then divorce – or struggle with – japanese women should have forwarned me of what to expect. Now I am “stuck” with a “parasite” of a wife (japanese) who can barely lift a finger around the house and acts like my income is not enough in comparison with her other japanese friends husbands (I make six figures, by the way). Because I have a daughter I stay – and that’s the only reason!
I have started to do more things with with friends away from the marriage, which keeps me sane! And I decide not to have sex with my wife because I see her now only as a parasite, which she is(!), which just kills any desire for her. If I did not have a daughter I would have kicked her to the curb long ago.
Japanese women are sexy and beautiful! But, their society creates these parasitic women who have no choice other than to find a meal-ticket for a husband.
Interesting article- and even more interesting comments!
Chris:
My Japanese wife is a goddess when it comes to the house hold. She loves to keep a clean house and cook very good healthy food. I think she is not an exception for a Japanese women. She is definitely not a parasite in that she also has a full time job as a nurse. I do show her appreciation for all her hard work. I just wish she put in one percent of the energy that she puts into making a nice home into making me a happy man with sex now and then.
I feel strongly that sex between a husband and wife will strengthen a relationship. It should not be with held because one does not feel desire. The act of sex itself will help to bring on a desire for each other.
Please do not be like the Japanese women that has been discussed on this site in that they with hold sex. We do not want to become what we hate.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1083726/Its-epidemic-hard-working-couples–sexless-marriage-survive.html
without it the clock is ticking
but I am stuck in a sexless marrage ,the bed is the dullest place in the room.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/World/A-nation-where-marriage-beds-have-gone-cold/2005/02/04/1107476799599.html
mabey genetic modifing italian women with japanese or vis versa could save japan.
its a bit desperate but mabey it works
@Samuel
Japan is a lost cause. If Asian is what you like look at other Asian countries like the Philippines, Korea or some other Asian nation.
Speaking of which I see a lot of men extremely happy with their Filipino wives. I know a few Filipino women myself and even as a friend they are more mature, honest, open and up front about their feelings and themselves. I doubt very seriously if I will ever marry again but my next mate will likely be Filipino.
I’ve been married to a Japanese wife for over a year now and I must say that sex is great, actually better and better. I am extremely happy in all respects in my marriage and I have a few friends (foreign guys) who seem to be equally satisfied even with having children here in Japan, so I guess that it all depends if you can make a right pick… or just pure luck?
Although I agree with many of the above stated complaints about the lack of intimacy in contemporary Japanese culture, if you look a bit in the history (just look at the travel books of foreigners coming to Japan in Meiji or Taisho), you might find much more promising patterns of behavior, as opposed to the current mainstream image of rigid and “sexless” corporate culture, which indeed might be the root of many sex-ridden problems, and not only in Japan…
Even in the countryside today, people live very different lives, often more pationate and relaxed than people in big-cities… I personally know farmer couple (in their 40s) with three kids, who are still in love and banging, so I wouldn’t despair over Japan quite yet
Inaka,
We are all very happy for you.
I am guessing that:
1) You are a Japanese man, so your drive/desires are probably more suited to a Japanese wife. If you’ve been married for over year to your Japanese wife, I’m guessing you’re basing the comment that it’s “better and better” on the three or four times you’ve done the “horizontal mambo”. Omedetto Gozaimasu!
2) You are a Japanese woman, trying to convince some prospective future victim that Japanese women are not all sexless and passionless creatures (note to future victim: THEY ARE! RUN!)
Inaka:
My Japanese wife is from the countryside in Nagano. She is sexless. It most likely does not matter if a Japanese women is from the inner city or from the farm. She will not have a desire for sex. You may have found an exception. Great for you. However: nobody should take the chance because the odds are just too great against finding a loving Japanese Women.
In addition please do not have a child with your wife. That will be the end of any horizontal mambo.
Timmy
Interesting, I doubt if Inaka will listen to the advise here, I just hope some rational thinking person who reads these posts will….
Inaka is a Japanese name but his writing style is not Japanese English, not that it would be broken or anything but the choice of words are not that of someone who is native Japanese.
Anyways, my wife is from the the country-side Fukuoka, although not exactly sexless she is certainly not one who enjoys sex. Neither are the many Japanese women I have come to know….including my recent Internet interest.
However, no doubt there are some women in Japan as well as men who truly do know how to have a “normal” relationship/marriage, or should I say a relationship that celebrates all of the normal human needs. But they are the exception and not the rule, even they will likely confess to that truth.
I’m gaijin (not Japanese woman spy
, I chose the nick “Inaka” just because I like countryside.
I have been living in Japan for five years, and have had few relationships here. Although I am fortunate not to have experienced sexless-related difficulties (yet), I have a deep sympathy with all the guys and girls, who do, because I also sense there is something inherently wrong with the current (mainstream) mode of Japanese relationships, communication, affection, love… etc.
However, I tend to ascribe at least some portion of the problems to the modern-urban-corporate life, which in my opinion stifles relationships and drains sexual drive… Where there is lack of freedom and spontaneity, boredom and frustration sets in. Of course, I might be wrong, I am no expert. But as I said earlier, I know some happily married people in the countryside, who are enjoying good sex life. Maybe the case of my farm friends (and my case) are not representative, but I just thought to share my thoughts with you…
Consider that the grandparent generation often used to have around 9 children per family (I know one who had 15), parent generation around 3 children per family, and now it’s almost 1 per family… It seems that older Japanese did get some sex within marriage. Maybe fresh air, high quality food, and regular exercise would do the trick?
But maybe I am off the track.
The case of foreign guys who suffer in sexless marriage, while their wives enjoy plenty of leisure and affection, IS indeed tragic, I admit… I talked about it with my wife, and she knows some nearly sexless Japanese couples , and she sometimes jokes that we do it “too often”… but in the end it just feels great, sl there is nothing really to ponder about…
Equally puzzling are the numerous cases of Japanese men, who are reluctant to even have a girlfriend… I know many Japanese girls who complain that Japanese guys are too passive, and one really cute Japanese woman is engaging in omiai for nearly a year, where the guys don’t even bother to go out with her… what a waste of pretty girl, I often think to myself…
Before I found my wife, I had been rejected many many times, and I used to sense some peculiar form of bitchiness from some of my previous girlfriends, so before I got married last year, I had been diligently reading the comments here, as well as doing my own research into Japanese psyche in order to minimize the risk of potentially tragic mistake. So far so good, even better and better, I must say, but after we manage to have children (maybe in year or two) I will keep you posted about the changes.
In the meantime I wish all of you clear head, open eyes and good luck! Keep writing because this topic doesn’t get boring. The more opinions, and shared experiences, the better.
I find Japanese (and Asian in general) women very attractive and sexy. I was in a 20 year (3 kids) sexless marriage and now I want the opposite. My American wife lost focus yet I would have kept going for the sake of the kids. if you read Autocentricus’s post (feb 26, 2007) you gotta laugh. So many dark comments yet some good points. I would qualify as “pussy whipped” in his eyes but there is so much more to life than just what I want or think I deserve. Now I have a Chinese girlfriend. We are older (50 and 57) but are having some really good sex that is getting better all the time. She is well educated (PHD) and a banana (google it) in a lot of ways. She is vey giving and the best thing we have is that strong physical connection. We truly like each other and our time together is never long enough. This is my advice: At some point as you date, you may be lucky enough to find that physical magic. The first time it happened to me I didn’t realize how important it was and I lost a golden opportunity. This time I take it much more seriously. If you find that in a woman (whatever ethnicity) I suggest you stop looking there. Ignore all the negative BS posted about women and men. Relationships are as diverse as the weather and no one has an accurate forecast. Japanese, Chinese, American, African — plenty of great girls all over the world.
Being in a Sexual Relationship with a married woman of any race is not nearly the same as being married to that woman.
Being in your 50′s you and your Banana are doing nothing more than trying to make up for lost time and trying to get what is missing from home. I would bet that your Banana is sexless at home.
Here’s an update for anyone interested. Japanese wife and I went to visit an American therapist for counseling. Not only sex issues but other communication issues etc. Anyway, my wife explained that she spoke to 3 of her Japanese friends (in USA, 40s ages) and one didn’t have sex for 8 years, one didn’t have sex in 4 years, and one didn’t have it in 2 years. She didn’t even tell me this by the way. She also explained that after children she is no longer interested in sex, and has never masturbated.
The therapist told her this is not normal, and said once a week would be fine, if not more often. Among other things, she told her to get more comfortable with her own body, use a mirror, masturbate, read a book about sexuality.
I have no idea how this is going to play out, but I find it fascinating.
My wife has said similar things about some of her Japanese friends here in America who are also married to Westerners. She didn’t say exactly how long, but said that they have happy marriages even though their sex lives had died down. In 3 of the 4 cases she mentioned, I know the husbands well enough to know that that is not true. I don’t mean that the husbands are completely unhappy in every way, but all 3 of them have said things ether directly or indirectly that make it very clear that they are not satisfied in their relationships with their wives. One guy, who hasn’t even slept in the same bed as his wife since their last child was born over 10 years ago, regularly visits strip clubs and takes occasional trips to Thailand (without his wife, of course). Since my wife & I have even talked about him doing that, I was flabbergasted that she would cite he & his wife as an example of a happy, healthy marriage!
Have those wives been lying to each other when they portray their marriages as happy? In some ways, they could be, but I don’t necessarily think so. It could be a matter either of self-decpetion, or it could be the idea that of how one portrays such matters to others — the idea of always presenting a public “face” that is positive. Many or at least some Westerners would label the latter as “lying”, though just about everyone from every culture does that to some degree or another, Japanese culture is well known for placing an extraordinarily high value on that –so much so, that many (though certainly not all) Japanese would present such a “face” even with their closest friends.
In any case, things are going better with us — which is, of course, a relative statement!
Great posts from Doug and Kakui. Doug how did you get your wife to agree to the counseling? Good on you! It sounds very promising and hopefully your wife will have a breakthrough. Over the past year I’ve gotten a new perspective. Wife is often stressed from the daily routine (2 kids), but things tend to work when I chill and don’t pressure her. Have some wine, medical THC, whatever. If I end my evening relaxed and thinking maybe I’ll coax her into a session – but if not no biggie – then I sleep well either way.
This doesn’t work for everyone, and my situation isn’t as bad as many of you guys. Once a week has been happening recently (knock wood), but it’s not consistent.
This sounds bizarre, but my wife who is in pre-menopausal has been receiving injections of human placenta recently. Gives her energy to get through the week -cooking, cleaning chauffering, volunteering, and if duty calls having sex with me. A nice side effect of the placenta is it makes her slightly hornier and wetter. Apparently placenta is quite a fad in Japan, but there’s almost no info in English about it. Sounds safe enough, albeit weird. We live in San Francisco and there’s a Japanese doctor who offers this treatment. It’s not cheap but it’s worth it, so you gents living in Japan should look into it.
Dude
If your counselor is a Gaijin I hope [but highly doubt] they understand that getting your wife to increase her desire for sex will take more than just a change of heart on her part. It will be more like making her to some degree less Japanese. The Japanese are a single minded people when it comes to cultural norms. Getting a Japanese person to adopt Gaijin ways is not as easy as it sounds. It would help if the couple did not live in Japan and if she had friends who were more like what the Counselor and husband suggest she be like.
Either way good luck with that!!!
@kakui
For sure his wife knows about both [Thailand and the strip clubs] and she is not so naive not to know the purpose of both. This is an example of “normal” in Japanese culture. Normal is the man goes elsewhere to satisfy his wild yearnings for sex and when he comes home the wife knows “she” [even without sex] is the winner. Love Hotels, brothels, and “health clubs” are popular in Japan for a reason. The cultural minds and mentality are set up for this type of relationship as being normal. Wives don’t ask, husbands don’t tell, but when they come home all is normal…this is a happy Japanese home for many Japanese women.
It crossed my mind today that J-women might thing a man weak, stupid, lacking self esteem or just not attractive to women if he does not have sex outside of marriage. I mean everyone knows that as long as quiet is kept J-men have the green light to relieve themselves outside the home. It seems that men who don’t want to go that route or have issues with outside sex are the ones complaining.
I am sure every man that comes to the site can attest to the truth that when a woman sees other women wanting her man she seems to cling to him more and finds him more attractive/desirable. No doubt a little of this plays into the equation.
Also unlike American woman, the J-mistress has no desire to ‘take-away’ any females man. J-mistresses know their role in the equation, they don’t try to steal men, break up marriages or rock the boat. In fact if a man did leave his wife for his J-mistress she would turn him away most times. An American mistress on the other hand is completely opposite, she will cause all kinds of problems, steal a womans man just to show she can if nothing else.
“how did you get your wife to agree to the counseling?”
Great question. About a year ago I asked her about that and she said if I research whether it was covered by health insurance then she’d go. So last week I found out it’s covered and asked over dinner alone whether she would go. This was followed by dead silence and completely ignoring my questions. After I asked her for the 15th time, she completely blew up at me and told me there’s nothing wrong with her and blamed me for everything and anything.
Then we got home from dinner and after a few hours she said she’d go.
I researched a counselor who is both a marriage counselor and sex therapist because I wanted someone sex-positive yet still be a regular marriage counselor. That was probably the smartest thing I’ve done based on what happened.
The therapist basically brought up issues even I didn’t make a big deal out of, because of not expecting much and being used to it:
-making noises during sex. The therapist made that a big deal and told her that she was depriving me of getting enjoyment, as well as depriving herself.
-receiving oral sex. Same thing.
I think other therapists might have agreed with my wife by saying that since she was in her 40s and not interested, I’d have to get used to that. But this therapist totally went to bat for me surprisingly. I was sitting there listening and couldn’t believe it. Finally someone who saw and agreed with what I was going through. Not that there weren’t things I had to deal with, like less working at home etc.
Anyway, latest update is that we had sex twice in past week, and I manually stimulated her to orgasm which took way longer than I thought, but at least she didn’t complain about being too tired etc. Went well. But she still won’t masturbate or touch herself. She says she will before the next visit, but I don’t believe her really. She clearly has issues with her own body, and is overly concerned about cleanliness to a ridiculous degree.
She also hasn’t initiated yet, but did make noises during sex. So overall good progress, but I still am unsure whether this will really be a break-through.
All of you guys need to get Athol Kay’s book Married Man Sex Life Primer right now. Seriously. While I know that cultural differences play a part in these troubled marriages, I think the fundamental problem is biological – a lot of the guys who have posted in this thread come across as passive, beta male wimps who can’t get their wives attracted to them because they’re doing it wrong. Supplicative behavior isn’t sexy, it’s pathetic. Japanese women don’t dislike sex, they don’t realize they DO like it because there are so few men (Japanese and foreigner alike) who behave in the way that most women are biologically programmed to find attractive. In short, Japan suffers from a shortage of the “bad boy” and “asshole” traits that subconsciously drive the ladies wild.
Go read that book and dig into the relationship side of Game theory – read stuff like Roissy’s blog for more solid advice (though the pickup related stuff is not as helpful.) I am amazed nobody else in this thread has said anything (as far as I’ve seen) about game theory, because it’s basically the answer to a lot of problems here.
I hear you, Doug. What is it about Japanese women and their obsession for cleanliness?!?
I once dated a girl who refused to have a sex unless it was immediately after both of us had a shower.
Needless to say she would use this as a way of avoiding it when she wasn’t in the mood with “No, sorry – haven’t had a shower” and “great, let’s get in the shower together” didn’t make any sense to her. The strange thing is that it was more than just a convenient excuse, to her it not only “made sense” it was a way of life.
Can anyone please explain this to me?
Way to go Doug. My wife has also never masturbated, and while I’d love to see her touch herself I’ve given up asking. My highest priority has been to ejaculate in her mouth, but she absolutely refuses. I wasn’t even allowed to ejaculate in her vagina until we installed a Toto Washlet (previously had to put on a condom prior to unloading). So I get the cleanliness hangup.
Anyway, if I were you I’d praise your wife for the progress she’s making, be patient, and let her take baby steps. You still sound somewhat stressed about the situation, but man….twice in one week with sound effects is nothing to complain about!
Another update, it’s going pretty good, sex a few more times with some moaning. She’s telling me more specifically what to do to get her off. And amazingly she even got a Brazilian wax after I mentioned a bikini wax to her.
We’ll see if this lasts, but I’m encouraging her, not negative, and we’re both being more communicative in general.
Looks like a lot of people have issues with the cleanliness hangups. Quite similar I have to say, but she’s relaxed more now.
I wonder what the problem is with masturbation in Japan. I had assumed it would not be a big deal there, but apparently that’s not the case. Anyone know why?
Hi there long time reader, first time poster.(After yet another sexless night of turned back and snoring)
A little about me, I’m in my early 30′s with three kids and have being living here in Japan for almost 10 years.
My marriage is fine, but as others have said, more like living with my sister.
Since my wife found out she was pregnant with our third baby, there has been no sex whatsoever in almost two years.
Now I like to think of myself as a patient guy, but there is only so many times you you “yank your chain” solo style without going dolally.
I am even becoming bored of porn online! It just feels so lonesome.
I am extremely fit and am thinking of trying out for a triathlon next year, don’t have any vices, pull my weight. Look after the kids more than my wife ever does, shopping, cooking, cleaning (I am actually more like a wife than she is!)
But now I am getting incredibly frustrated!
No hugs, kissing, and certainly no sex. Even once a month would be almost bearable, but no!
Why only last year a lady friend of mine (married with kids) came on to me and admitted right there in front of me, that “Why don’t we just do it”. If I wanted to I go go around to this woman’s house and screw her anytime, and she has made this quite clear that it is what she wants (Constant emails, phone calls etc…) it or not, after refusing this offer
, I told my wife what had happened and expecting her to be jealous, it made absolutely no difference whatsoever.
I had these visions that she would be more clingy to me, but no….. I even told her that this woman was the third woman to come on to me since I have been here, and she didn’t give a hoot.
She said that I wouldn’t do anything because we have kids together, and she knows how much I love and adore them. And besides If I did anything then she would probably divorce me.
So there you have it. I am in the prime of my life with three wonderful kids and a wife who has given me ZERO affection in almost two years.
Is this really it? Am I doomed to have a sexless life forever?
Listen to those of us in the know people, if you are in a relationship with a Japanese, sex will be awesome, until kids come along (no bad thing at all, I love my kids more than anything) but after that, kiss your love life away, and prepare to become bitter and twisted.
Hi there long time reader, first time poster.(After yet another sexless night of turned back and snoring)
A little about me, I’m in my early 30′s with three kids and have being living here in Japan for almost 10 years.
My marriage is fine, but as others have said, more like living with my sister.
Since my wife found out she was pregnant with our third baby, there has been no sex whatsoever in almost two years.
Now I like to think of myself as a patient guy, but there is only so many times you you “yank your chain” solo style without going dolally.
I am even becoming bored of porn online! It just feels so lonesome.
I am extremely fit and am thinking of trying out for a triathlon next year, don’t have any vices, pull my weight. Look after the kids more than my wife ever does, shopping, cooking, cleaning (I am actually more like a wife than she is!)
But now I am getting incredibly frustrated!
No hugs, kissing, and certainly no sex. Even once a month would be almost bearable, but no!
Why only last year a lady friend of mine (married with kids) came on to me and admitted right there in front of me, that “Why don’t we just do it”. If I wanted to I go go around to this woman’s house and screw her anytime, and she has made this quite clear that it is what she wants (Constant emails, phone calls etc…) and after refusing this offer, I told my wife what had happened and expecting her to be jealous,But believe it or not, it made absolutely no difference whatsoever.
I had these visions that she would be more clingy to me, but no….. I even told her that this woman was the third woman to come on to me since I have been here and married (which is true), and she didn’t give a hoot.
She said that I wouldn’t do anything because we have kids together, and she knows how much I love and adore them. And besides If I did anything then she would probably divorce me.
So there you have it. I am in the prime of my life with three wonderful kids and a wife who has given me ZERO affection in almost two years.
Is this really it? Am I doomed to have a sexless life forever?
Listen to those of us in the know people, if you are in a relationship with a Japanese, sex will be awesome, until kids come along (no bad thing at all, I love my kids more than anything) but after that, kiss your love life away, and prepare to become bitter and twisted.
Anyone else here notice a reoccurring theme?
The more people a J-female has in her life to provide [Love, affection, security, comfort, etc] the less she confides in her husband or mate for those things. Until ultimately the husband or mate is nothing more than a useless co-habitant in the home.
Men with J-women that are newly married with no children or few children and the husband is the only other person she has will likely be happy.
Men with J-women that have family, friends, older children or other people in her life besides her husband will likely be miserable.
Want to be happy with a J-women, be the only person she has to depend on…
@Coconut – you have summarised the situation perfectly. We have a daughter and my wife’s work it seems is to micro manage the kids life to the Nth degree. Thus keeping her totally occupied.
In the end, I went out and got a girlfriend and one night got into an argument with the wife because I was home really late and ended up just telling her what was going on. She was totally shocked – she really had no idea, not an inkling. After that she became very attentive, initiating sex most nights to prove that she could hold onto me.
We moved back to Japan and the sex has slowly petered out. Now it’s once every 6~8 weeks and it’s usually initiated by her (control issue). I have given up trying to get anything going any other time because she just avoids me at bedtime – showers as late as possible, comes to bed really late (1~2am) and as I’m working the next day I’m asleep by then. That once a month is a duty shag nothing more, so if I do stray again she can turn round and say “well, I do give you sex” (albeit infrequently).
I am actively seeking a gf again let me tell you. But being very careful this time. There is a woman but my wife is so vigilant that I can’t get the time I need to develop this. I’m in my mid-forties and still have life in me yet!
Personally I would never tell my wife if I had a gf on the side. Better to leave things as they are with her being celibate and me getting some occasional sex on the side. I would try to keep things as normal as possible at home, no phone calls, no being out late etc.
Until the time was right “for me” to leave. Even then she would not know…no need for unnecessary drama.
As well as I recall when I first posted here my sex life was okay with my wife, now, however things are much different: now we sleep in separate bed rooms and I am not sure when we had sex last. She will make a sarcastic comment about us not having sex but when I reach out to her for sex she pushes me away. In fact, she pushes me away constantly … Actually I prefer sleeping separately as I get a better night’s sleep and honestly do I really miss the sex … maybe not. I am in my 40′s and we have been together 16 years … I think she misses her family in Japan and is not satisfied with our situation here. Yet when I mention the possibility of us going back to Japan she says she isn’t taking me back … from time to time she has mentioned leaving me when our daughter graduates high school in a few years … used to bother me when she talked liked that but now I really care fuck all … I don’t want to split up but if we do what does that mean for me? Freedom. A younger woman. A non-Japanese woman I have more in common with.
Interesting Kayu
Just 2 years ago [reading back] you seemed to be in a pretty good relationship complete with sex….now a 180 after almost 2 decades of marriage.
All I can say is:
I have been where you are both then and now
I understand completely your dreams of the future
Better to be a Japanese womans lover than her mate.
@Kayumochi – hey, been a while. Apart from the obvious I hope you’re well
It’s funny, this thread gets more traffic around the holidays. I guess we’re not working so much and get to think about our sex lives, eh?
A younger non-Japanese woman… maybe I’ll head off to the Philippines.
I’m a lot more savvy re J women. (that took 2 marriages!!). Even J GFs I’ve had I just know what they’d be like after marriage.
Probably the last thing I should be reading one month before our ceremony, but it’s still on my mailing list and still interesting. Maybe instructive, it just seems — wow — like the original title: Really? I’m sure for everyone writing, the answer is, yes kiddo, Really.
Sex has been great, still is, even a year into our legal wedding. Finally doing the proper ceremony with my side of the family and friends in the States. Well, proper, it’s what we can afford. It’s not all that Cinderella stuff, just not gonna happen. Can’t afford it, and really, come on, look how many people go way into debt for a fancy ceremony — my thinking on that is if you got the money for it, great have fun, if you don’t, it shouldn’t matter.
So yeah, about sex, well we just have one agreement, which is that when it’s “that time of the month” then we don’t do it for that week. Ok! Fine, I understand it’s not enjoyable, like how I wouldn’t want to do it if I had the flu or a stomach bug, totally okay. I’m not that selfish and it’s otherwise awesome.
That’s been a year steady plus a few years before that, and I think, well really does it even have to be every night? Even for me, that’s a bit intense, kinda takes the thing out of things. What I found is good is really doing things she enjoys. That’s a lot more gentle, not in a rush, and she’s able to come most of the time. Can’t fake that stuff either, there’s a sense that’s involuntary and I can tell she enjoys it. Either that or she really should have had a career in acting!
So what’s on my mind is family issues. Yeah, I know, everyone says, you just wait, just you wait happy idiot, you have a kiddo and it’s all gonna change. If that’s so, we’ll figure it out. I still want to have a child too.
What is really on my mind is us getting the hell out of Japan. Sick of it. Exhausted. Quit drinking because it’s all so banal and I don’t give a damn anymore. What I want to do is the work that is self-actualizing, which I am not doing here, off in the countryside, in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by the aging and the dying.
I’ve made that clear, and she said how about in 10 years? I said, no, I mean — I was really on the edge of feeling suicidal to be honest, I felt trapped and in a way still feel I’m treading water. So I said, more like 2 years, need to get back in the real world, a place like NYC for example. Not some one-star town in a minor prefecture. Imagine an empty cornfield town where everyone is alcoholic (including me) except, bonus, it’s Japan and you can’t move because you now own a family business below your apartment. Trapped is the key word.
We vaguely settled on 3 years but need to make a clear plan. I need for us to set dates, set checkpoints of how we’re getting from here to there, and keep hitting them so we’re moving in the right direction.
Which brings me back to, well, my own parents in the States have told me frankly that after years of marriage “you get used to each other’s bodies, there aren’t any surprises anymore.” So yeah, I think mellowing out with sex after years of marriage is fairly common — haven’t we all heard of that before? I still think it’s an important part of everything, but come on, really, even after 10, 20, 30 years, it’s still going to be hands-and-knees going nuts with it two, three times in a night, in a morning, randomly whatever in the afternoon on a day off? I don’t think any of the families I grew up with were doing that.
I think it’s gonna be, provided we can keep the stress levels fairly low for both of us, when the kids are away or asleep, that’s our private time and that can be part of it. And it’s not gonna be every night, but it is still something we do, it’s part of the love.
My .02
@Flying,
Two things I can say with certainty: 1) You don’t want to be one of those sad gaijin males who say “At my age what could I do if I went back home” and 2) You don’t want to be one of those gaijin males who say “We are going back to my country one day but we haven’t decided exactly when yet.”
I was #2 for years. #1 was my motivation to get the hell out. There are only so many years a man has to do that thing he REALLY wants to do and unless you desire to be a professional gaijin in the hinterlands of Japan then work on your exit strategy.
Not that I wouldn’t consider returning to Japan one day but if I do it will be on my terms AFTER I have satisfied myself here.
I have lived and studied culture in Japan. In the west, people are more ‘casual’ about sexual encounters- focused on having a ‘good time’ and just going for the whole experience of it. To the point of boasting and celebrating our encounters- like a trophy to be put on display.
In the east, women are raised to be like ‘women’ and aren’t expected to have their own sexual desires. No one (there) likes a loose, insatiable nymphomaniac. If a guy knows that a girl has been around the block, he won’t take any serious interest in her. That’s why the women have to pretend like every time is their first time.
Especially during marriage, women are expected to be pleasure receptacles for the husband who has been overcome with lust. They can’t show any interest in sex or initiate it, it’s pretty much a turn off for the guy, who wants to be in a dominating position. And polygamy used to be legal in Japan, so that pretty much gives you an idea of what perception of sex is like there. A woman’s sexual needs are invisible. That’s why you see women crying and whining in Japanese porn- even if they like it or don’t feel a thing. They’re not in pain or displeasure, but pretending that they are, resisting, terrified, so overcome with sensation, that they have no choice but to cry and scream (compare with screaming or moaning over here). I’ll be honest, guys there really do get off on the idea of ‘raping’ or ‘ravaging’ a woman, even if it is totally consensual- women will often say “no” even though they mean “go ahead” but they want to make the guy think he is in control.
That is half the reason for the low sex in Japan. Because the guy has to initiate it. The other half is about why the guy has little interest in sex.
A guy is a guy, anywhere in the world. They all have sex in the back of their mind. Some have it more locked up more than others. Part of Japanese culture is about depersonalization… It stems from the Shinto/Buddhism religion there. Focusing less on the personal desires and more about what function or role you would fulfill in society. The Japanese are adamant about pursuing careers, even if their sex lives have to take a dive. But sex is still on their minds- which is why they have all sorts of ‘wonderful’ creative outlets for their sexual energy- mainly in porn. And I don’t need to go on explaining the colorful rainbow of Japanese porn… They can be content with masturbating and not go on a hunt for ‘getting laid,’ as we do here in the west.
Japan undoubtedly has a colorful sex culture, which ironically stems from their inherent perceptions about sex. It’s definitely not ‘relaxed’ there, but it is rather heightened; sex is only worth it if it is thrilling and exciting. Things are sexualized there too, (especially children) but not in the obscene way it is done over here, but more through fascination and infatuation. Yet they seem to be fine with nudity over there- over here, we are all up in arms about it.
I know that was a lot to read, but that stems from my observations. To sum it up; Japanese people are quiet and disciplined about sexual matters and desires, because of their culture. Men are the ones who have the sexual desire, and women have to be the ones ready to take it. But nowadays, they can’t even seem to afford having such desires and attachments, and seek pleasure from fantasies.
Personally, I have not had sex in Japan, but I have been approached by many men and there was this one guy in his 30′s who was ‘happily’ married but always flirted with me and made advances on me. I also had a Japanese boyfriend, but it was a year before the topic of sex came up (and I had to bring it up!) but we never went through with it. He was one of those REALLY shy, artistic, emotional, submissive, introvert types… We broke up because things didn’t work out- but we remain good friends.
So there you have it… Maybe we just see Japan as “Sexless” just as they can see us as “Obscene” there is no standard of comparison here, everything is relative.
Maya:
You Wrote
“Japanese people are quiet and disciplined about sexual matters and desires, because of their culture. Men are the ones who have the sexual desire, and women have to be the ones ready to take it. But nowadays, they can’t even seem to afford having such desires and attachments, and seek pleasure from fantasies.”
This is not my experience with my Japanese wife when she was young. She did have a desire for sex before we had kids. In addition when I lived in Japan I did have a couple of Japanese women coming on to me for sex. I turned them down because I was young and newly married. When I moved back to the USA we soon had two children, and at that point my wife no longer wanted sex. A Japanese flight attendant took an interest in me and we had an affair. She is the one that initiated the sex most of the time. She was very good in bed and totally got into it. I know I would have gone soft if she did the crying thing.
Now a days things may be different with the younger Japanese women. I am over 50 so things may have changed. If they have maybe the solution is to go for Japanese women over 50 without kids. Most Japanese ladies at that age still look nice and there will not be a problem with a kid stealing the attention down the road.
Timmy
I am also at the point of breaking down.
I also live in a middle of nowhere, everyone is an alcoholic rice farmer, no name town in a quiet prefecture, and depression is getting to me of late.
It is hard when you have lots of acquaintances and no real friends out here.
Sure I am best buddies with my kids and love them to death but my wife fails to understand, the need for even the smallest bit of affection.
I don’t even think I have ever heard her tell me the words “I love you”!
When I tell her so, she just smiles and says unconvincingly “Me too”!
Out of interest, does anyones wife ever tell you this…anybody? Seriously!
I am only in my early 30′s and super fit and yet, I feel like this is the end of the line for the love express.
I just don’t understand what I am doing wrong.
My J-wife tells me “I love you” (in various languages) all the time, so I feel lucky after reading all of the above…
i am in a sexless marriage ,bed is real dull, we need help.
I am reading a book called “The Savage Wars of Peace – England, Japan and the Malthusian Trap” by Alan Macfarlane, and today I read a chapter Fertility, Marriage and Sexual Relations, parts of which I would like to share with you. There are some interesting observations.
[start of quote]
…
Dr Emiko Namihira informs me that there is a Japanese phrase which can be translated as ‘divorce within marriage.’ There are grounds for believing that there were strong pressures within the traditional Japanese family which controlled the occurrence of sex within marriage. One of these concerned an apparently strong taboo against older women having children or perhaps even sex. In a novel we are told that ‘We Japanese have always considered it disgraceful for a couple in their forties to have a child.’ [Ariyoshi, The Twilight Years, 135.] This attitude is suggested by the memories of a woman who recalled the tragic death of her mistress after a failed abortion. ‘She must have been about fort-one at the time. In those days it was considered a great disgrace to have a baby after the age of forty – they were usually either aborted or killed at birth. A middle-aged woman only had to look tired or slack off from work and tongues would start wagging.’ When a middle-aged woman became pregnant, her mother-in-law, ‘used to come along almost every day and bait her about it: “It’s disgusting a woman your age having a baby – you want to get rid of it just as soon as you can,” she’d say.’ [Saga, Silk and Straw, 210] Other writers suggest that part of the problem lay in the structural relations between the mother and daughter-in-law. Hanley and Yamamura cite evidence from Tosa that ‘it was not considered proper for a woman to have a child if she had a daughter-in-law bearing children.’ [Hanley and Yamamura, Economic, 265] Taeuber reports that ‘”Elderly” couples in their late thirties or early forties felt it somewhat improper to have a child, especially if there was a daughter-in-law in the house.” [Taeuber, Population of Japan, 30]
Further clues concerning sexual patterns emerge from a recent work on Japanese family planning by Samuel Coleman. He shows a set of characteristics which may be significant. ‘Japanese sexuality is still largely confined to this dichotomy of “sex for pleasure” and “sex for reproduction” … the idea of sex as “communication” is all the more alien. Japanese sex specialists have recognized this tendency to place sex in a separate dimension from interpersonal relationships.’ [Coleman, Family Planning, 173]
…
‘For husbands, sexual intercourse was a duty to produce offspring, summarized in the expression “obligatory fuck” (giri man).’ [Coleman, Family Planning, 175] The end of this obligation was possibly a relief for the woman as well. It might well be that, partly as a result of the grinding hard work, the considerable burden of breast-feeding, carrying children and the threat of unwanted extra children, husbands and wives stopped sleeping together when the men were in their mid-forties and women their mid-thirties. If this were so, it would explain the particularly early age at which the last childbirth occurred.
…
[end of quote]
Perhaps many posters aren’t seeing the woods for the trees.
Out for drinks with a few mates recently, one with an Aussie-Chinese wife, one with a Spanish wife and one with a Finnish wife. All three had a child or two. All there complained that sex simply didn’t happen any more. I have at home a Japanese wife, no children, no shortage of sex but accept that once the kids come sex will be on the decline.
It’s not a nationality issue, let along a Japanese issue. It is a result of growing older, greater responsibilities in day to day life, and I suspect frequently husbands not pulling their weight with wives resultantly and resentfully stepping back from providing.
It’s somewhat sad to see so many posters (or perhaps just a small number of repeat posters) looking to blame a culture or a nation for the downsides of growing up.
So what is your response to the cultural explanations quoted above, namely that in Japan there is a “strong taboo against older women having children or perhaps even sex” ?
Or what do you say to the statistics (both governmental and conducted by Durex) that Japan has one of the highest rate of sexless marriages in the world with the least number of intercourse per year? And culture of sleeping in separate rooms, not showing affection in front of others… etc etc… ??
I think there are some valid cultural explanation for the high rate of sexlessness, though I agree that there are many other numerous factors in play. For example there is a Japanese book called “Sekkusuresu boukoku-ron” from 2009, where the author blames capitalist culture, not Japanese culture. I guess many arguments could be made, but culture is definitely one of them.
I know this whole topic revolves around sex -but- I would like to point out another issue. The issue of language and comprehension of ideas. Basic everything things might not be a problem but when it comes to more abstract thinking and expression of ideas there will be a huge problem. This often leads to missing the whole point of problems, issues or the meaning of conversations.
Example:
I took a class at a local University. My first grade on a test was very bad a “C” but much lower than I thought I should have gotten because I knew the answers. The instructor kept dodging me and it was clear that she did not want me to see my test nor meet with me. Later I had to drop the class due to other reasons. When I dropped the class I missed a few tests obviously. However I got a grade of a 63 on a test 1 week after I dropped the class. How could this be??? One I dropped the class a week earlier and most importantly I never took the test. The main idea of this whole thing was to bring into question the integrity of this instructor…..
My wife missed the whole point, the whole idea of dishonesty from an instructor seems to be beyond comprehension.
Although she has a degree herself, she seems in many other ways very child-like because of the inability to comprehend. At first I thought it might be a language [lost in translation] thing. But even in Japanese the whole idea and notion is over her head. First of all, there must be a answer to the question ‘why’, for example why did I get a 63 on a test I never took. If there is no answer as to why then in her mind its not true or she just can’t understand. Very frustrating to say the least.
Haha! This is a great thread.
I’ve only got about half way down it (it’s long!) but I have to say that I am 100% in agreement with mitaboy up there ( who posted in 2007 so I don’t know if he’s still around…)
As I began to read some of the comments I was just shaking my head in disbelief at the navel-gazing of the husbands on here. One guy even suggested ( to his wife, no less!) that BREAST IMPLANTS would liven up their sex life. HOw ignorant does a man have to be about the female anatomy?! Breast implants create a *loss* of sensation in the breast area because the nerves are cut. How on earth can *her* sex life possibly improve if she has less sensation in one of her erogenous zones? And how do you think it makes a woman feel if her husband suggests breast implants? INadequate is the answer. Unsexy. Depressed. The guy wanted the breast implants for HIMSELF, of course…
Ditto all the guys at the top of the thread who suggested dress up and shit. All lifted straight from pron.
Let me give you some advice for free. Pron is marketed and distributed by and for men. It has *Zilch* to do with female sexuality. True, some women get turned on by it but that’s a fluke, for the most part.
I’d go so far as to say that Japanese pron has the edge over western movies because it focuses a lot on cunnilingus, on making her cum, and intercourse doesn’t feature very highly. This is more in line with female sexuality, and what women want in bed.
Western pron is more about intercourse in various positions and how long a man can keep it up, which is more to do with the man’s ego than the woman’s pleasure in most cases…
Mitaboy knows what he’s talking about. Read his comments.
Failing that, extra-marital relationships should spice things up and the glow you get from that will transmit to the marriage bed and improve your sex life naturally.
My sex life is okay, husband is Japanese, two kids.. but he’s always working. WHen it happens it’s fireworks… but it just doesn’t happen often enough, I’m sorry to say. It’s a serious issue for me. I crave the attention and affection of sex. so I’m not preaching from a high horse … I’m seriously thinking of getting a toyboy; I even have a specific one in mind.
come back to say, I’ve finished the rest of the thread.
I’m 30 now, and perhaps I should get out while I can. Foreigner in Japan, though… I’m gonna lose the kids in a custody battle… I’ll have to stick it out. I like Japanese men, wouldn’t mind a lover for the time being… but if/when I divorce I am NEVER. EVER going to live with a guy or get married again. Can’t wait to taste sweet freedom again one day.
My wife missed the whole point, the whole idea of dishonesty from an instructor seems to be beyond comprehension.
Coconut:
In the same way that my wife does not understand that the radiation level in Japan is now so high that the place is basically inhabitable. She believes that the experts in Japan would warn the citizens if there was a danger. She wants to go back to visit next year. She can not comprehend that it will still not be a safe place to visit a 1000 years from now. I did show her the evidence of the danger but she just can not get it mentally. Japan is finished.
Plumblossom better get her ass out of Japan pronto. 30 years of age is just too young. Please remove your children now from Japan.
Timmy
thanks for the advice Timmy
I’ve got a plan, getting organized. Luckily I’m in the south (don’t want to reveal my exact location for anonymity reasons) so as far from Fukushima as possible, i don’t feed my family beef, and I’m doing other stuff to limit radiation exposure. But yeah.. that’s another worry.
I just don’t want to be middle aged at thirty, and I’m pretty certain my own mother has a better sex life than me right now, as she has got herself a boyfriend after divorcing my father (something she needed to do).
I’ve got so much energy and life inside me. God..
Plumblossom:
As a gentlemen, I’d volunteer myself, if it was not for my (so-far happy) marriage and living in Kansai region.
I think that venting your frustrations here might actually get you some attention of potential toyboy candidates living in Japan, so perhaps you should reveal your location or contact info if you want to have some fun
Timmy:
Speaking of Japan, it seems quite habitable to me, so can you please direct me to the “evidence of the danger” you mentioned above? I am only aware of increased radiation around Fukushima, and some hot spots (Cesium…) in Tohoku, but I am not aware of any serious health risks of daily life southward from Tokyo. What does it mean “Japan is finished”? I don’t want to leave yet…
Can an admin give mitaboy my email address!
I have a few questions:
I like Japanese girls, but I don’t plan on ever getting married.
Do you think it is ok to have Japanese girlfriends then?
Kasaman,
Take my advice.
Have a Japanese girlfriend. Have a dozen. Knock yourself out.
DO NOT MARRY ONE.
Marry the girl and it’s GAME OVER.
…And then you write on this message board how miserable your life is….
Thanks.
I don’t know if this is off topic:
I’m currently seeing a Japanese girl, we are both in our early twenties studying at college.
We told each other that we like each other, but never agreed formally to be bf and gf.
We hold hands and hug. That’s it. I’ve only known her two weeks so far.
She came over and I kissed her but she didn’t kiss back really. I asked what is wrong, and she said it is because she is shy and not confident. I stopped kissing her. She said she missed the last train, so we slept in the same bed, but just hugging.
She may be a vrigin. Her friend told me that she has only had one bf in Japan before. He was Japanese.
Any ideas about if I should try to kiss her again or not?
she seems like of those “cute” girls that arent into sex very much…
Kasaman,
If you want to have sex with her, you could probably pull it off.
If you want to have PASSIONATE sex with her, forget it.
She IS one of those squeaky “cute” (kawaiiiiiiiiiiiii ne!) girls who isn’t into sex, and while she may grow into a obatarian housewife, the sex drive will remain firmly at zero.
It’s really a question of what YOU want.
Thanks Heinrich.
Be-aware not to get sucked into a relationship with one of them and expect 180 degree expressions of emotions. As in today she seems to like you and tomorrow you are hated and ignored. Japanese women are mental cases for sure, my advice is to stick and move.
I’m married to a Japanese woman and we have two kids. Sometimes family and work life kicks our asses, but we try to have sex every chance we get. I’ve found being honest about desires and kinks (and encouraging her to do the same) has worked well over the past decade.
I’ve noticed a lot of blame on the wives in this comment thread; if you were having great sex before marriage (and kids) and now you aren’t, step back and take a look at the ways you treat her differently and see if there’s anything you can change to get your relationship back closer to how it used to be. It may legitimately be a one-sided issue for some couples but in a lot of cases both sides of the marriage are part of the problem.
I agree xo9, there are always two sides or maybe 3 to every story.
I married my Japanese wife about 8 years ago and sure things get tough but we enjoy a good sex life. We are both in our 40s and she keeps me satisfied.
I have been married to a Japanese woman for over 10 years now. We waited a long time to have our child, mostly because I wanted to wait. Before our child was born, our sex life was good. I always made sure she got her enjoyment before I got mine. Since our child was born we have had actual intercourse once or twice. Oral exchanges happened maybe once or twice as well. The last time anything happened was over a year ago.
We recently moved to Japan because of unforeseen events outside our control. People close to me in my home country strongly recommended I divorce her there instead of moving here. She was shockingly uninvolved as a mother. I was concerned about whether or not a lawyer would be able to keep our child from boarding an international flight. I was worried about her taking our child to Japan while I was out of the house.
After just a few weeks of working full time and our child attending daycare, he no longer speaks English. She readily agrees to speak English to him, but never actually does it. She complains when I study Japanese at home and refuses to speak Japanese to me. An outsider would think these things were connected and that she was trying to drive a wedge between me and our child. I am beginning to believe that myself.
I have been hurt and upset by her total lack of concern regarding sex. It disturbs me that my child rarely utters a word of English. My wife receives compliments about the beauty of our child everywhere she goes with him. She has zero interest in sex now. She has no use for me beyond my income. She is perfectly happy with the way things are.
I am tired of taking care of my own needs. However, I am sick of looking at her face. She no longer turns me on. She didn’t gain weight. Her breasts are no longer milk bags. I don’t see her more as a mother or sister than a wife. She is simply a bitch. She is unbelievably selfish, just like one of her parents. Maybe she always was and I simply got sex often enough not to worry about the lack of a nice personality.
It took me several days at work to read this entire thread. It was cathartic. It was helpful to know my experience is not unique. It was a little depressing to find out how prevalent it is. I am trying to change my outlook regarding life and marriage, at least with a Japanese person. I am trying to stop wondering “Why me?” and starting asking “Why not me?” I need to stop waiting for her to be nice to me and just move on.
@Way_down_south
I feel really bad to read the extent that this has happened to you, believe me, I feel you pain. I share many of the same things of two different fronts, a first marriage with children that a wedge was driven between me and them and a current J-wife.
Concerning the J-wife, as I am sure you are already know this life you are living is “Indeed” never going to change. She played her master game of chest, used her patience and ended up in a lifestyle that only a J-wife would love. For some reason they never love, in fact they do not know how to love….yes they can fake it and often do in front of strangers or even the once in awhile flash of affection. But its all just an act. I am convinced that my J-wife as a true undiagnosed personality disorder. After I saw this early in our marriage it actually scared me into a vasectomy, having two previous children made it an easy choice as well.
My life since our marriage has done nothing but take a slow but relentless spiral down hill. This situation is the epitome of “Sunk Cost”, meaning that the time and energy that I have put into it makes it hard to leave although I can plainly see it only getting worse. Like a stock that keeps sinking every day but you continue to hold in hopes of recovering some of your loses. Fact is, this stock will never go up again yet I continue to hold now because its so low that I have nothing more to loose. I wish I would have had the courage to end it before we hit year one when I saw the signs.
However this whole thing has been a huge learning lesson for me. Not so much about J-women because writing them off was easy, but a lesson about myself.
Good luck to you my friend, we are with you in spirit and wishing you the best.
Coconut,
I feel your pain. Divorce sucks, but it offers a hope of finding “true love”.
I have no regrets about divorcing my J-wife, in fact, I should have done it earlier.
Stay strong my brother.
Folks, i have to admit, I’m just speechless. It is an amazing forum and exactly what I needed. I would have never ever thought that it is such a burning issue and that this thread is still running. Spent hours to read through (although I’ve not finished yet i absolutely want to write sth) and was surprised by the partly very good quality of it. And I would thank some of the writers, I really got some very good insights and it definitely helped to face to truth, something I haven’t done for a quite long time.
I would really like to join the group so I may provide you my story, you may already know what will come because it covers a lot of things i read already, but still knowing someone will read it, helps.
I (male, west European) am in a relationship with a Japanese for slightly more than 5 years. As already heard many times before, the beginning was just great. I used to date a quite westernized Japanese girl who really enjoyed sex (I thought). Spending years abroad I was really convinced that this would sustainable to some extent. We just could not stand without touching each other as we started to be a couple. Almost every day we had sex. If she was not in the mood for receiving, she still gave me some bj’s or just by hand, sometimes three in two hour or until i could not any more (some numbers where wished above).
Frankly saying, it was very spontaneous and good! And i was in my early twenties, and she just one year older.
I already had experience that time, international as well, and with a ten years older hot Hungarian woman, but still, miles away from Don Juan.
That said, it good times were roughly the case for about one year. After that (we both tended to be more occupied) it dropped but it was still okay. It tended to be an average of 2-3 times per week.
I can live with that, because I really love my wife!
But then, last year the marriage came… But this was actually, contrary to other stories, a huge boost for our sex life, the fire was definitely back (like in the beginning) for about half a year.
But then, suddenly as soon as she started working quite a hard job in my home-country, it dropped and i now have exactly the same as so many of you guys mentioned above.
I now have serious trouble to keep the fire running and we now have sex 1 a week, which for me is too low. Im fu_king 27.
And as already heard from many of you, the passion is not there anymore as it used to be (and it definitely was there).
I tried and tried to talk with her, but you know it is not easy (even though I speak Japanese at an acceptable level and dealt partly with Japanese studies at college).
Suddenly, what was very surprising, she searched a Japanese sex counseling dvd, which was just awful. The guy just kept talking and talking and doing “the things” to the girl, while she was just lying there like a dead fish. But criticizing that it ended in a very severe dispute.
Later tried again, and there were some good hints btw. but none of them were quite sustainable.
So, if that was a counseling (!) and not (!) porn video, where you see some kind of s*it, what can one expect?
I also spotted that there is a tendency to treat me like a son (which I hate). I’m really wondering what have her changed to behave like that. Also spending hours on housework, but not having time for me is a hard feeling to bear.
During the last year I argued with my wife and also with myself, that once a week should be enough (and regarding many of your comments, i really should be very very happy about that), but actually I’m not. Otherwise, the life with her is perfect. She’s taking care of everything in the house (which i do not demand), but just there is this thing.
That said, I hoped that changing the place of living (to Japan) would help our relationship to become more intimate, but it did not.
Thanks to the lecture of this forum i now wrapped up my situation and as a consequence, I’m going to look for a girlfriend and afterwards may tell her that, even though it is fuc*ing brutal in my opinion and it is completely against my moral.
But since it is not a big deal here in Tokyo and it seems to be quite easy; I will give it a try.
So, see maybe some of you guys around roppongi this weekend!
Any comments really appreciated, even though it became very long.
Btw. I now superficially 10 couples all mixed (Western men, j-women) but I did not talk with the man about this topic yet. But looking back now, there are signs which shocked me, e.g. the woman demanding a lot of the man, speaking badly of him in Japanese and sleeping with the child, getting him to buy a family car etc.
So, I’ll start talking with people I know about this topic and provide them the link to this forum…
@way_down_south
“I am trying to change my outlook regarding life and marriage, at least with a Japanese person”
Hell yeah, so did I! But considering that sexless marriage is really quite common all over the globe (including my divorced parents who are def not Japanese), i think that it is more or less common everywhere, but the structure of the japanese society does not help to address the problem adequately.
Excuse my double post, but writing here really helps to get some steam off.
UPDATE:
In the West, my marriage would already be finished. Here in Japan, we damn foreigners have no rights so I’m stuck in this situation. My wife’s parents are basically divorced-while-legally -married. It should be no surprise to me that she thinks that situation is natural.
I’m not going to change my wife’s outlook on marriage or life or anything else. She got a kid, she got to move back to her home country with excellent English skills, she’s close to her parents, we have no sex, I work a lot of hours. To her, everything is perfect.
Since I can’t change her outlook, I am still working to change my own. She doesn’t like that I don’t give a shit about her opinions anymore. I try not to be bitter about it. I try to let the nagging just roll off my back.
I’m forcing myself to be independent of her. I don’t ask her to handle anything for me anymore. I can tell she doesn’t like it when I accomplish something without her help. I see that she wants to feel like she has the power to decide what I can and cannot do. She wants me to have to depend on her.
I am pretty bitter about the 180 degree turn my wife took after we had our child. I still depend on her for my immigration status. Until I get PR or citizenship, I have to keep swallowing my anger. I wrote some things on a piece of paper. I carry it hidden in a pocket of my wallet.
Don’t need her for anything
Be disinterested
Be your own person
Be casually friendly in return to kindness;
otherwise, ignore her.
Nothing bothers you
Nothing touches you
After I finished reading this entire thread, I started researching the topic of marriage in Japan. I still depend on this selfish monster for my legal status. I learned that unlike the West, divorce is very difficult to get when both parties do not agree. There is an expectation that after kids, men will look elsewhere for sex. Sex for money is easy to find (at least for Japanese-looking men). After having kids, women will not have to pretend they like that dirty business anymore. After they want another kid they are miraculously interested again. By appointment only, mind you!
I learned that if you’re like me and already have a kid together, you had better guard your own interests. Men in general have few rights to their children in Japan. Foreigners have even less power. Have enough cash squirreled away to get out of the country and file for divorce from there if things go nuclear. Secure your child’s foreign passport, hide your registered seal （jitsuin じついん 実印), and file an anti-divorce form every six months. If your kids go to daycare, make sure it isn’t unusual for you to drop them off and pick them up. Know where her main friends and extended family live. These easy preparations require no confrontation and can prevent a lot of the horror stories you read about mothers going crazy when an international marriage falls apart.
EXAMPLE DIVORCE REFUSAL FORM
http://www.rikon-navi.jp/shiryou/syoshiki/non_recive_divorce_notice.html
Like some of the other posters on here, I was always against adultery (in principle). After living without sex for well over a year, self-preservation has finally kicked in. I just started doing research about how foreigners who are obviously NOT Japanese can find outlets in Japan. All I know so far is that it’s best to hook up with someone else whose marriage is dead, has kids, and has as much to lose as you do. Now I just need to find out how to meet those kind of people…
“I’m forcing myself to be independent of her. I don’t ask her to handle anything for me anymore. I can tell she doesn’t like it when I accomplish something without her help. I see that she wants to feel like she has the power to decide what I can and cannot do. She wants me to have to depend on her.”
Very good point!
I finally put myself together to talk about various issues of marriage in japan in general and our case in particular. Took about 4 hours but was a good start point, because it was surprising for her that I spoke that points up so clearly. So, let’s see how it goes on. Will keep you posted. It turned out that the mother son relation from above seemed to be quite an issue in our case.
So, keeping independence is a very good point for both your self esteem and for being the husband and not the sun (fact she did not like your independence prove that, imho).
Do not let her feel as you would be her son!
And do not allow her to have power over you including your sex drive.
Adultery is not really that what I want, either! But just by getting the awareness that i could do it gave me some kind of boost in power to mention all the difficult points.
But yeah, sometimes it is too late to talk anyway…
I consider doing following (so far only tried out 1, which was quite ok imho, got a message from the girl the day after, but said i was busy):
1. there are a lot of nightclubs in roppongi (ordinary ones not those from the blacks) and some bars in shibuya are quite a good choice.
–> Ill be there tonight btw…
2. teach english and post announces in the internet
3. international parties
good luck to those who need it!
I know it is highly unlikely but I wish a native Japanese person would come here to help us explore this further.
This phenomena needs to be brought to the forefront in order to be resolved. Its a situation that too many people are living in both foreign/Japanese and Japanese/Japanese. Its very counter productive and is not a functional relationship that promotes mental or physical health. Too many Japanese have accepted this as the norm and resolved themselves to live a life of misery.
@leanback
Reading your posts (and other recent ones too eg Way Down South) make me realise (again) that this problem with J women really is so prevalent.
I have posted on here before and been through a fair bit with this issue.
I have tried adultery and it kind of worked for a while after I told her what had been happening. She pulled her socks up, so to speak, and things were what I would call normal. But after a couple of months things started to slide and two years on we’re back where we were before I got the GF.
To be honest, I think Heinrich is right when he mentions that divorce is basically the only solution for this thing. BUT I have a kid who, if I were to divorce, would probably never see again – that would destroy both of us as we’re so close.
So, I too am looking once again… after all I am only human.
I han’t been here in awhile but just reading and (OMG)you guys really take this loneliness and affection problem seriously. I felt like the world is on your shoulder and it is such a big problem. I can’t help but laugh out loud for “Way-down-south” secret note.If you can’t get divorce, or get out of the situation, find friends that you can go to the party with sometimes, watch movie,play the guitar,chat ,chat,chat and ponder how lonely life can be. I did it all.
@Arnie
You’re probably right… I tried to hook up with some chicks this saturday, but it felt so completely wrong to me that I just could not do it and go for the deal. I want my wife to be my hot affair and not some random ***! (I’m not depending on her, she does not get my salary nor are divorce laws in my home country against me, “not yet” at least)
But i don’t want to hold back my latest tries from you, because I really suffered of this situation and that board helped so much, literary the scales fell from my eyes.
Yesterday evening, she started the discussion by her majesty herself (complaining why I treat her so harsh the whole day, because I blocked every attempt to dominate me and had a flirt with a hot j-girl next to her!) and wanted to continue it, actually it was for the first time that she spoke up such kind of things.
(Equation here: Speaking up essential and important problems = treating other people harsh and disturb the calm and peace…. NOT for me actually, I’m not willing to accept that any longer!)
But at first there was a lot of this subtle resistance which I only know from the Japanese girls so far.
Said that, you need really to be patient and focused otherwise you lose your path so easily I felt.
After one hour or so with endless patience and really insisting on my points, I felt that I could get her to understand my message and break through the wall.
(
But this is so difficult; imho you really need to have a deeper understanding of the Japanese society/way of communication in order to distract her arguments of her being Japanese. “You know in Japan, in jp relationships…” –> Honey, I’m in Japan, talked to Japanese boys & girls and I know X, but this is not what I want with you. Point
Let the silence work for you instead against you, as it is normally the case.
)
I mainly focused on the lack of affection to me / our relationship and the purpose that sex is not just something she gives me, but we have together!
I thought this is better than just focusing of how many times you have sex, speaking this out and talk just about sex itself causes a terrible resistance and triggers the so famous “mental switch off button” (you know what I mean)!
After half an hour of silence…. Suddenly, she came up some unaffiliated evident lacks of her affection feelings to me (which I haven’t mentioned with intent), that’s why I thought she really is able to think about our relationship and also wants to have it in a better way.
She told me, that after she got independent she loses interest in sex and affection with me, because she assumed that I will be always around, but now she knows that I won’t! She got the point, now I can build up from there
After some silence, she asked me, if I want sex from (!) her! I said NO (I also meant that)!
I want no sex, I want her affection. And that woke up her inner animal. So, I had a really good time (best for over one year, m****fu**king bs).
The affection from the beginning was definitely back! (That was no fake at all)
MY THOUGHTS OF IMPROVEMENT AND WHAT I’M DOING FROM NOW ON:
I know that it is really hard, but stop watching porn regularly, (I really was used to do it actually), but it weakens your mind and distracts you being focused, so you’re less male to her which is the absolute killer! (I’m not religious too much nor are my moral standards against porn, but I really doubt that it is good for your mental health and your hunter instinct!)
If you have, let her put the wedding ring away and tell her that she is your gf, worked perfect to me, just as simple thing like that!
Do something together, like dancing or something like that.
Concerning that our situation is a common problem all over the world and in all societies (I have not the slightest doubt that it is), I think the unique society constellation (not western and never being colonialized with our morals) makes it particular difficult to deal with it in an appropriate way.
So, it is your task (the western part) to speak it up and destroy the harmony. As for you it is not harmony, but the hell, you have nothing to lose.
Make her clear that you are not her enemy, but the anchor in a cold world which she should treat with respect and take care like of a fire.
DOUBTS:
Concerning your writing, I doubt it will work for a longer run.
Is it really worth to write almost 1000 words in a completely anonymous forum and trying to fix a situation where the evidence that there is little chance to succeed is so low? Why investing so much
You surely come up with some arguments why also my try cannot work (why should it be exceptional in my case…)
And consolidating my situation, the worst point is that I really wanted and actually still want to have kids with her. But under the given circumstances, I have severe (!) doubts that this will work, so I’m back to the rubber…
The kid makes the situation so so hard… oh my god… thanks lord I don’t have one so far…
I’m sure all the gaijin are gonna lose their kid when it comes hard by hard in Japan. Discussed this issue with a Professor of Japanese studies.
If you love your kid and you are completely sure that it has a better life with you than with your spouse, I think you can just escape the country together with your kid’s gaijin passport (which is like a diamond) and tell no one where you’re going to live (maybe your mother or brother if they are close (!!!) to only you, and know how you suffer, because other people definitely do NOT understand how these “aaah so cute” Japanese girls can really be. They often forget that there are women, man, just as simple as that. It’s so clear that they love their kids, look at women from South America, Italy, Spain etc.).
Sorry for the sheer length of my post again, but there is so much to say….
leanback,
It sounds like your wife is very busy, working and doing all the housework. This might be another reason why she’s less interested in sex. If she has more time to rest and relax, this might help. She could work less, or you could help with the housework.
@McLovin
I wish I had an explanation as simple as that. But she quitted work four months ago when we came to Japan. No work since then, and the housework it is not such a big deal. I did everything alone for over two years (as I was single), and it was definitely not stressful nor so much time-consuming…
Hi guys, how are you doing?
After long days of arguing with myself, I chose the adultery path and so it comes that I’m dating some girls, which actually feels quite great (besides some slight bitterness)!
What are your views regarding that? There were some comments about adultery, but does anyone believe that having one girlfriend after another is really a sustainable solution?
I really doubt that, but at least the feeling of being isolated, lost and rejected has just gone in one instance.
Maybe as a starting point it is fine to recover your selfesteem and to look if there is something to fix, but maybe a final cut is inevitable and should be done more sooner than later…
I would be really interested to hear some opinions, as people to talk about this topic are very rare these days…
Leanback:
When I worked in Japan 25 years ago I kind of did not know what to think of the married co -workers that had girlfriends on the side. I thought it was wrong at the time. Now I am just like them in that I have a girlfriend. She is only 23 years old and very attractive. The young age makes it strange for me in that she is two years younger than my daughter. It is what is I guess. It sure does feel good to this 52 year old man that a young pretty girl finds an interest in me. I want to fair to this girl. I want her to have a great future and I will not hold her back from finding someone else that can give her a long term relationship. I can not do that for her. So that is the dilemma. Can I be fair to this girl and be seeing her? It feels good for my self esteem to be with her but what does it do to her self esteem? Is it possible to keep it everything drama free? At this time we both enjoy each others company. Neither one of us is clingy. We are both respectful of each others life outside our own. We do not demand time from each other. I think the relationship will have to stay on the light side in order for it to stay fun.
Timmy
@leanback
I understand you but please please please remember that if GFs hang around long enough they have a nasty habit of becoming wives and believe me the cycle just kicks off again.
@Arnie,
I’m also convinced that it will be the same cycle over and over again, in fact I already can notice it, the very beginning is also some kind of repetitive, so why the rest should be that much different…
But yeah, I already have some kind of feelings for my new date, gosh…
@Timmy, it sounds somehow very cool (promising future for me though), but I see your dilemma. I also don’t want to harm her (gf) in any way, but the more intense it gets the harder it will be not to do it. It’s difficult.
I think as long as you follow just the casual dating path without getting too serious and without some kind of commitments, it won’t prevent her from looking for other guys.
I also want to try to keep it as light as possible (but you all know that this is not the aim of Japanese relationships, so be prepared)
In my case the age difference is now “only” 6 years, but I think this is even worse… I’m just waiting for the question: “Why don’t we live together?”….
Conserning what I’m doing, I sometimes have real problems to look at myself in the mirror… It is a real dilemma.
My reason for doing this *** is that I really hope that I can transport the drive from dating other girls into my marriage and get my wife’s attraction back somehow…
But yeah, it is definitely not fair for no one involved as I’m just using people which I have feelings for. And this just before Christmas…
Despite the irony of the situation: Merry Christmas to all (enjoy as much as it is possible in this country…)
Merry Christmas.
I am sick of my sham marriage. I have started withdrawing and detaching myself emotionally from my marriage. I have always been patient with my wife’s incessant bitching but now I have zero tolerance. The smallest bit of nagging and we start barking and snapping at each other like wolves over a carcass.
Speaking of the guilt associated with adultery, life is too short to be unhappy all the time. Next spring I will be going on a business trip throughout Asia. I have two years of desire and unmet needs backed up. When I come back to Japan I will be lucky if I can walk straight. I will probably feel very guilty after the first time. I’m planning to get plenty of practice. I hope to eventually find someone else trapped in a dead marriage so we can find comfort and excitement together between the sheets.
Every time I look at my wife I feel like I got tricked. I’m trapped with her because my child is more important to me than life itself. I’m hoping some other woman will be a nicer person, but I know any relationship would probably just turn into the same thing all over again. Like Bugs Bunny said, “Aren’t they all witches inside?”
@Timmy
I am very happy for you, and no matter what your relationship is or amounts too with this person enjoy it. Shallow or deep, and no matter how brief take it for what it is and enjoy yourself.
OK, here’s another update. Check back a few months up to see the last one. We’ve been in therapy since then, and it’s going pretty well. Not perfect but much, much better. The therapist basically said to her that it’s unacceptable to not have sex if she loved me. If she really didn’t love me, then we needed to think about getting a divorce. She said she did. The therapist then told her that there are other options too if she really didn’t want sex, like going outside for sex, but she didn’t want that so she worked on becoming more comfortable with her sexuality which had been repressed from living in inaka I guess.
Before we rarely had sex, maybe once in a few months, now it’s a few times a week. She will dress up in lingerie occasionally, will make noises during sex sometimes, used a vibrator several times, masturbated herself during foreplay and during sex when I asked her to try. She was getting a cold recently and so I asked her to give me a handjob instead, and she did it. First time I’ve ever gotten that before. She also initiates occasionally which is great. And she doesn’t refuse as much when I initiate. She asked about going to a female-centric sex store to check out, and was willing to watch some porn. Basically opening herself up becoming comfortable with herself. It’s not natural for her but she is trying, I have to admit that.
For my part I try to be more attentive, communicate more and it’s better. Without the therapist pushing her I know the same old not interested bs would continue. No doubt about it. I just have to see what next year brings. Hope it continues.
Hey Doug, this sounds really good and quite promising. I’m very impressed.
Where did you go to therapy, was it in Japan?
Would be really, really glad about a good recommendation…
I was also thinking about it once in a while recognizing that I do not have the will/power anymore for the try to cure the relationship by myself alone, but I was not very successful in finding something useful in Tokyo yet…
But now, I really think I should consider going to a therapy with my wife, because having a quite young gf besides my marriage (and she does not know anything about it (yet)) and not being able to offer her some kind of stableness on one hand, and cheating my wife on the other hand is also not that life I would like to have…
Frankly saying, I hate myself for doing that!
Has anyone of you other guys ever gone to some kind of therapy and had any success?
Another point I would be very interested in:
Do you guys have someone to talk about this kind of topics in the real life?
I now know just 2,3 people in a similar situation, I can occasionally talk to, but unfortunately it is not possible to the extent I would like to.
Having someone on the side can develop into a sticky situation.
In my first marriage I cheated for 10 out of the 13 years it lasted. I tried to dump my gf after about year 5 when I saw that she was really wasting her time with me…she was too good of a person for the temporary relationship we had. She deserved a man to herself, I thought. But after her persistence and my weakness I went back to her and we continued. Finally through a long process I managed to end our relationship, it was hurtful to both of us but necessary.
Some years later I was at a restaurant and met this 80 year old lady [maybe even older] and she took it upon herself to school me on women. Everything she taught me was dead on, even when she told me about having a mistress. She told me that men will feel guilty about having a mistress because they feel like they owe them something. But the fact is women who choose to be a mistress find joy in no other type of relationship. Long story short, I should have kept her as my mistress…she was as happy as she had ever been and so was I, and now many years later she is still single and we both have not enjoyed the companionship we shared as lovers since.
Too bad I burned that bridge and can never go back.
Now having had my eyes opened I see things a bit different, more like they are and less like I want or imagine. My J-wife knows her short comings and I know that as long as quiet is kept I can have a gf on the side without question.
Very interesting story. Can imagine that this had to be quite interesting taling with the obaasan about this kind of things…
Sounds somehow very logic, but still the bitter taste having a gf beside has first to be eliminated.
Now then, when do you in tell your gf that you are married or do you just try to hide it?
For myself, I would have liked to hide it as long as possible, as I think it may frighten too many (especially young) girls to get involved with you as a “married” man, because the idea of marrying you in the back of their mind is not realistic, even though just playing around is usually fine in most cases…
@leanback
I think you should tell your gf about your marriage. It is unfair to her if you dont, and besides, why keep her around if she will turn away if she knows that you’re married (a high chance that she will know sooner or later!) If she likes you enough, she will stay.
You should be careful though – there are many kinds of women around. @Coconut had a gf that would not have mind being a gf all her life, but some dont! Also, your wife would be another problem. While some may keep quiet, to some it can be a unalterable damage in trust, and things usually go downhill from there. To play this game, you should first know your girls well. If not, not only do you not lose in one battle (the wife or gf), you might end up being a loser in both. Even if this is Japan, divorce rates are rising.
Honestly, I feel that a gf is a short term solution. If you really think that you and you’re wife’s relationship has no more hope, then you should get a divorce and not let her suffer as well.
Just curious – since you got a gf, what would your reaction be if your wife got a bf?
Simply put.
If you do not Love and Care-for [a thing] how can you expect that [thing] to want to stay around? In fact should you even expect that [thing] to stay?
For this reason divorce rates are justified in going up and marriage rates are justified in decreasing.
If people would Love and Care-for each other for example the way they would Love and Care-for a Dog, you can expect happy lasting marriages and a true benefit from being married in the first place.
Until then you can expect all sorts of mis-deeds as people try to satisfy their natural urges.
Coconut:
I agree with you about if only people would care for each other like they love and care for a dog. My wife gives more physical affection for our cat than she does for me. I know this would never change even if I became the most perfect man towards her. She often says she shows her love to me by cooking great meals. I guess I get this and for the most part she is a great wife. The only part that she totally sucks at is in being physically affectionate. Not only do we never have sex but she hates being touched. She even hates it more if I touch her or give her a kiss or a hug. Maybe I could stand it if at least she petted me like she does our cat. Since she does not I have gone to another women to satisfy my natural urges.
Timmy
Timmy,
Good for you Timmy, I very happy for you and hope you enjoy your time with your gf.
During my first marriage when I had a gf she knew I was married from the start, I think her knowing actually made things a lot easier.
Honestly Timmy, your wife seems a lot like my first wife. I found out some years after our marriage that what I suspected was true….which is she had been sexually abused as a child. What I did not know was to the extent that it happened and with who. I really think your wife may have been sexually abused as well, its more common than we think.
Happy New Year Timmy and enjoy!
Coconut:
My girlfriend also knew from the beginning that I was married. I think it would be very difficult to hide this for very long. My wife has pretty much verbally said that it is OK for me to get my needs met elsewhere. I think that this is a common arrangement for married couples in Japan.
I doubt very much if my wife was physically abused as a child. I have the best father and mother In Law in the world. They would have never abused their child or let someone abuse her. In addition my wife would not have allowed it. From what her sister has told me about my wife is that even as a child she was not afraid of standing up for herself or confrontation. I think the problem is that my wife was never touched as a child. Never given as much as a hug. Being raised in rural Japan I think she saw very little healthy physical affection among couples. Her parents sleep on futons feet away from each other for example. She had no experience with touch as a child so how could she relate to it as an adult.
Timmy
Guys, what about kissing? I’ve gone through the thread and there are a few references, but I was wondering about kissing-as-foreplay. Does it happen a lot after marriage? Is it something you get a lot of before marriage (like sex), but it disappears after marriage, or do Japanese girls dislike kissing (indoors) even before marriage?
I lived in Japan a few years ago, and one long-time Japanese girlfriend I had was a wonderful kisser. When I complimented here on that, she started crying! Apparently I was accusing her the equivalent of being a slut. I never understood that.
@leanBack, the therapy is in US not Japan, and originally I went to a Japanese therapist by myself one time and thought it was awful. So I decided to find a sex positive therapist. I found someone who is both a family therapist and a sex therapist so I knew she would be sex positive. I told my wife she was a family counselor while not highlighting the sex therapist part. She turned out to be great and my wife likes her as well.
Since the last update we have been to a sex shop and bought a vibrator and a sex card game. She has given me another hand job, we’ve had sex several more times, lingerie etc and it’s been good.
However, I think Timmy has described almost the exact situation my wife grew up in. Even though sex is better, her non-sexual intimacy is pretty much lacking. She won’t push me away like before, but she won’t initiate either. For example, I’ll go up to her and hug her and thank her for making dinner etc. She will hug back and thank me for something. But she will almost never hug me first. In bed I will cuddle with her but she won’t initiate cuddling with me. On the couch watching tv I will put my arms around her, but she will never initiate and put her arms around me. Personally as a guy, that’s not been a big dig deal to me, and the increased sex has more than made up for the lack of intimacy, but now that I think about it it’s kind of sad. The next time we go back to the therapist I’m going to try to see if anything can be done about this. It definitely goes back to lack of intimacy as a child growing up in rural Japan I’m sure of.
I guess it’s a very slow process for women to change and become more sexual and intimate. And they have to want to try otherwise there’s no point. So I guess you need to ask her whether she loves you, and if so whether she wants to try to make it work, and if not, ask her for other options open-endedly and see what she says. Maybe she would say get a gf on her own.
@yume, did you grow up in a western country?
If you asked me that half a year ago, I would have probably told you that I would have been really disappointed and terribly jealous.
I always thought that the declining of sex was just my fault, regardless how much I tried to be the “perfect” man.
I took it very personal which was very bad for my self-esteem (even though very well hidden).
But I’m now convinced that it is not just my fault and that to some extent it just does not seem to be appealing to get down with your husband even though the person is still the same.
But like the things are now, I would not care that much if she would have a nice bf, if it would help her to get more passion in the marriage, I think I would appreciate it in some ways.
I tried to propose her that in an indirect way, but she clearly told me she’s not interested.
I’m also not that afraid of ending up losing both at the moment…
But if she would do that, I assume that the slightest amount of affection will be taken out of
the marriage, so seems quite useless to think about it.
My aim is different instead; I try to take the thrill of dating with other women into my marriage, which is actually helpful at the moment (in term of more affection).
I can realize like two different behaviors. If we go out and do some date-like stuff, than she really changes, all the passion (like before marriage) comes back, but as soon as the atmosphere of marriage dominates the situation, the passion is just wiped out.
About telling your gf that you’re married. Did you guys really tell them this at your first date or just a few dates later? I’m really curious about your experiences regarding it as it will be a hot topic very soon for me…
And they really did not bother? My western perspective simply cannot understand that…
I also understand that you can’t hide it for too long, but I think you should know each other at least better; otherwise the risk of just stopping it is too high in my view, even though it is not fair for this young girl who may expect different than hanging out with a married guy…
Thank you doug, i also thought that this kind of therapy is not worth trying in japan.
You saved me a lot of time searching after it in Tokyo. Maybe I’ll try it once back home.
I also agree to what you guys mentioned about the puppy dog, in my situation it is very similar
and also to the affection from the parents, which is almost unseen.
But what I’m really astonished is the huge percentage of similarities in our situations…It’s often so similar that one just would not believe it…
“About telling your gf that you’re married. Did you guys really tell them this at your first date or just a few dates later? I’m really curious about your experiences regarding it as it will be a hot topic very soon for me…
And they really did not bother? My western perspective simply cannot understand that…”
Dear lean Back
I have had four different girl friends and I told each of them that I was married from the beginning. The first girlfriend was a Japanese woman that was a friend of a friend of mine. We developed the relationship four years after the birth of my second child. The relationship I had with my wife became sexless after our last child was born. I was sexually starved at the time, so I responded to this single woman’s advances. She knew I was married at the time and we were both in our mid-thirties. This woman was very affectionate sexually and she was good beyond any fantasy I had at the time. It just shows that Japanese women can be affectionate but most as a rule become sexless after a child comes. The relationship lasted about three years. We broke up and came together again about four or five times. Each time we came back together because we missed the great time we had with each other. We did try to become just friends but that never worked out because we both always lack the control not to have sex. She was bothered that I could not be with her whenever she wanted so that was one reason we often broke up. In addition she was a jealous type. She did get a job as a flight attendant so that ended the relationship in that she left town. After she left I did develop a since of guilt because of my religious beliefs. She called me about a year after she left and she wanted to see me when she came back into town. I told her no because of the guilt I had in having committed adultery. I knew the desire I had for her was so great that it would lead right back to sex.
I developed a relationship with the 2nd woman about four years ago. She was a member of the same club I attend. I had developed feelings for her and this became mutual. She initiated the relationship physically and I being starved for affection and lacking self-control responded to her advances. She knew I was married from the very beginning. Just like the first girlfriend we broke up and come together multiple times. The reason being she did not feel right about me being married and that we could not be open about our relationship. Each time we got together it would start friendly but in a short time it would again become sexual. Finally at last it has become only friendly and we are best of friends. I actually did spend the day with her a couple of days ago. She was suspicions if I had a new girlfriend. She did interrogate me and I did fess up that I did. She said she was happy for me.
The relationship with the third women was one that was just too fast and furious. I have a partnership with a sports bar in organizing an activity for the bar. One afternoon about 9 months ago I sat next to women at the bar and we had a great conversation. We bumped into each other about every two months and we would just basically say hi to each other. Last fall we bumped into each other again and I offered to buy her a drink. The conversation turned into her previous relationships and that she was now divorced. She asked about me and I told her that I was married. She was taken back and asked me why did her lead her on. I told her about the relationship I have with my wife. She said she understood and that she knows that European man have a similar arrangement with their wife and having a girlfriend on the side. I was kind of relieved in that now it was out that I was married and I could just become friends with this truly fun spirited woman. It was not to be in that she asked me to walk her to her car. That did led to a kiss, and more kissing and eventually having sex in her front seat. Luckily the windows fogged up to hide from those passing by. We were to meet up a couple of days later. She called me and said she had fun but had to cancel meeting up with me because she had thought about it and she felt she could not be with a married man. I bumped into her about three weeks ago at the bar. She said she had thought about me and I told her the same.
A few weeks after that fun evening in the car I did meet my present girlfriend. I met her at different bar. We again just happened to sit next to each other. She is black and just 23 years of age. We had a fun conversation and a great time together at the bar. We exchanged phone numbers. I was kind of wishing that she would not call me because of the age difference and the complications of having a girlfriend. She did call me back the next day. During that first call I did not tell her that I was married but I did tell her the following day over the phone. She did not have a problem with it and she said she would not judge me for it. It has been more than interesting to me because of the difference in our age and cultural back grounds. It was a trip for me as example to be the only middle age white person in a hip hop bar.
I cannot say that having a girlfriend on the side is the answer. I know myself well and in that I have almost no self-control when it comes to the advances of women. I do know from my experience that there are complications in having a girlfriend. It would be difficult to say that the fun with a girlfriend over rules the complications.
All that being said what is a sex starved married man to do?
Timmy
@leanback
No, I’m asian; grew up and living in an asian country (not japan though).
I am just interested to see the different perspectives people have.
Although I have my own side of the story, I don’t feel obliged to share it here… Good luck to you though! I don’t believe morals are everything, they only act as a measure to keep society. But that doesn’t mean I totally agree with adulterous affairs either.
@yume
This is an anonymous forum. Please do share “your side” of the story as it would greatly benefit everyone here…
Rest assured you will not be verbally attacked. A woman’s insight is greatly needed in this forum, be it Asian or other.
Dear Timmy
Thank you very much for your insightful explanations. Was really interesting to read!
“She called me and said she had fun but had to cancel meeting up with me because she had thought about it and she felt she could not be with a married man.”
That’s actually my very selfish worry and why I don’t say it at the beginning. I think, there is some time needed until she will be willing to try to understand my situation and see her benefits in it. Saying it too soon I fear that she will just fade out, because I approach girls like I wanna have their as gf (can’t do it different…)
But yeah, after a while there won’t be any choices I think, and I’ll have to tell it.
@Yume,
of course you are not obliged to share anything here. But if you would consider to share your thoughts of this story anyway, you won’t have anything to lose because like Coconut said, it is completely anonymous.
But you could really help a lot of people, because especially honest women insights to this topic are badly needed.
Reading through the forum helped me personally a lot. I started to talk to some friends I made in Japan since I moved here who are also in a relationship with Japanese women. And every one of these guys knew exactly what I meant but no one would ever try to talk about it because they thought it would just concern only them. Exactly the same thing I thought.
I was quite depressed for about a year about the situation (at my not so late 20ties nota bene)
but this is definitely over now and I really feel relieved somehow…
And that’s why I’m really thankful for all the people who talked so openly about their situations…
The link below is to a song by Tammy Wynette. I think if Japanese married women followed the lyrics in the song things would be a whole lot better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rr-neHxc-g
Haha, true that!
Too said that it is only in English… A good Japanese translation needed….
btw. Timmy, just out of curiousity, do you live in Japan?
“btw. Timmy, just out of curiousity, do you live in Japan?”
Dear LeanBack:
My wife and I lived in Japan for two years in the early 80′s. We have lived in the USA since that time.
The sad thing is most Japanese women already have an understanding of the message in the lyrics of the song Good Lovin. They know that their husband will go to another woman if they do not give some warming at night. However: for most of them and my wife included it is almost encouraged to have their husbands go to the arms of another women. Japanese wives just find it just too much work to be passionate with their husbands. It is just so much easier to have another women do that for them.
Tammy Wynette type women in Japan are pretty much nonexistent.
Timmy
Link to an article titled “Japan is Dying”.
http://www.henrymakow.com/japan_is_dying.html
Don’t be fooled by single Japanese women who behave sensual and wanton of sex. Before I married my Japanese wife, she initiated much sex on the beach, at the apartment, and going to Love Hotels. I married her 12 years ago and I’ve not had the same experience. In fact I’ve now been without sex for 10 years.
Ironically before I married, I experienced many monogomous relationships with many other cultures with me having romanitic sex 6 or 7 days a week (7days is a week), and on Saturday and Sunday I’d have sex 2 or 3 times a day.
I have 2 wonderful children and when they grow older into their late teens, I will dump my Japanese wife. I will never again marry a Japanese woman. I once was hurt, and then angry, but now I merely laugh at my sexless marriage.
Walking in Japan, often it enters my mind the many Japanese folks I walk past are not having sex, statistically.
I met a married japanese woman whose not had sex with her japanese husband for 2 years. He has yound girls as girlfriends, so I suggested that we go to a Love Hotel and she said, “You Americans…”. She declined yet she complains about not having sex. So silly are Japanese.
Every Western man I meet in Japan shares the same story with me. So take my advice and son’t believe a Japanese girlfriend who seems to like sex. It’s all fake and after marriage, a many might as well cut off his testacles.
In addition if sex is ever had with a Japanese woman, the sex is not good at all.
Irish women and Porto Rican women are the best at love making between the sheets.
Ps; with over 125 sexual partners for me, I’ve heard many compliments for my size and skill, so I know that my sexless marriage is not my lack in offerings.
Take care to All and please heed my advice.
BTW; I forgot to add that my wife wishes for me to find a girlfriend.
I have to agree with Robert about Irish women. I have not been with a lot but out of the ones I have been with Irish was absolutely the best…at sex. Japanese is the worst by far, even less than masturbation.
I’ll add to Robert’s information:
Polish women can be good, I had mixed results.
Latina women are VERY passionate.
Russian women (my current squeeze) are gold medalists in bed. Wild and frequent!
I preferred masturbation over boring sex with my Japanese ex-wife. Less hassle.
@ Timmy
“Timmy
Link to an article titled “Japan is Dying”.
http://www.henrymakow.com/japan_is_dying.html”
“The hand of the Illuminati can be seen in all of this. This is what they do. Destroy traditional structures. Fragment. Sterilize.”
LOL
Kayumochi:
Which part did you Laugh out Loud?
Do you think that it is just silly that the Illuminati exist or had a hand in all of this? If so what explanation can you give for the destruction of the culture in Japan in just one or two generations?
Timmy
Timmy
I agree its not funny at all. Because quietly and with purposeful intent the Japanese culture was and IS indeed destroyed from the family out.
People don’t realise how subtle and complete the damage is, even the Japanese themselves don’t realise it. Not until someone steps back and takes a real look at then vs. now do they really get an idea.
@Timmy
Please tell me who this “Illuminati” is that Henry Makow speaks of? I am not one to believe conspiracy theories, so I have a hard time considering this “Illuminati” and any plausible reason why and, more importantly, HOW “they” could create such a marital culture… If you read The Anatomy of Dependance (p.1973) by Takeo Doi you will see these issues have been part of Japanese culture more than just one or two generations.
FYI, I am married to a Japanese (20yrs w/ 3 kids), and understand clearly the issues with regards to the lack of intimacy between husband and wife. I am fluent, travel to Japan on business often, and interact with Japanese businessmen while I’m there, so I know firsthand how dysfunctional (from a Western point of view) Japanese husband/wife relationships can be. Fortunately for me, we live in the U.S. where the media and my wife’s American friends provide a more “western” environment, otherwise I am sure we’d have stopped having sex years ago… That being said, I still would not recommend marrying a Japanese.
I find it hard to believe that the Illuminati exist because I don’t see a single example in the “visible” where anything works out according to human plans in the long-term. Why should the “hidden” world of the Illuminati be any different?
That being said, let’s not get too far off topic. I don’t know that I would marry a Japanese woman again knowing what I know now.
Please tell me who this “Illuminati” is that Henry Makow speaks of? I am not one to believe conspiracy theories, so I have a hard time considering this “Illuminati” and any plausible reason why and, more importantly, HOW “they” could create such a marital culture…
Dear Nelson:
A normal person thinks and plans pretty much for his own life time. For example a life time plan for most is to finish school High School, College, or Grad School. Find a good job. Get married. Have children. Buy a house and a nice car. Save for retirement for one’s old age so one can enjoy the grandkids. Almost nobody makes plans for anything beyond one’s life except maybe to give a little bit of inheritance to your kids that they can enjoy after your death. It is beyond most of our understanding that there would exist a group of people that would make plans down the road for hundreds and hundreds of years. This is the Illuminati that make such plans. One may think that people do not come together to conspire. However: does it not make sense that this would be done by people with money. My local newspaper is filled with conspiracies. For example there is a story that the state has a theory that a certain boyfriend and girlfriend conspired to murder the boy’s parents. Yes ordinary people do conspire and people have conspired since the beginning to time. The Illuminati that Henry Makow speaks of consist of 13 bloodlines and information on them be found at the following video link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i3Dw8Cvg0o
How could the Illuminati create such a marital culture in Japan? One goal of the Illuminati is to destroy the family. If the family is nonexistent the state is what a person will look to for protection and this will give the Illuminati more power. In addition it is easier to destroy something first and then rebuild what you like from the rubble. The elite control the media and most of the music and movie industry. They pretty much can control the popular culture and the way it will go. Songs and movies can be put out to promote and give examples of free sex and homosexuality. In addition dramas can be put out to show how the father in the drama is weak and really just a goofball. One example of the power of a drama in changing the attitudes of women in Japan can be found at the following link.
http://www.japanesestudies.org.uk/discussionpapers/2011/Takeda.html
Not only can the arts be used to change the culture but the environmental will also make an influence. I feel that there may have been introduction of chemicals in the environment that has made a change in the physiology of the people of Japan. It again is just a theory but something happened to Japanese men. The younger men sure look and act more feminine than their fathers or grandfathers. The following link shows that chemicals can have a feminizing effect. These same chemicals may also give women a lower libido.
http://www.skinbiology.com/toxicsunscreens.html
What I would like to know is how the husbands of war brides felt about the sexuality of their Japanese wives. Is this a current problem or was it also a problem for the service men of World War 2 in that their wives did not put out? If it was also a problem for them I will guess I would have to admit my conspiracy theory is wrong.
Timmy
I personally also find it very hard to believe that something like that is manageable, but some facts you mentioned are quite overhelming.
When I talk to younger Japanese men, a lot of them are not interested in woman (except western looking manga women). Hard to believe, but they really are not. Even when they are drunk an amazingly high percentage of young men said that.
I can’t understand this at all…in western countries i have never ever heard anything similar.
Indeed, the country is going down, which is quite sad actually, but it can be seen quite clearly.
A lot of things are going terribly wrong…
Look at the faces of the people in the trains… how many happy faces have you seen there?
and then go to an other country, it looks different.
“Japanese wives just find it just too much work to be passionate with their husbands. It is just so much easier to have another women do that for them. ”
@timmy, somehow this phrase brings it to the point…
But still I really don’t get it. Why can’t they see the nice things once married….? It’s incredible
Dear leanBack
“When I talk to younger Japanese men, a lot of them are not interested in woman (except western looking manga women). Hard to believe, but they really are not.”
What the heck! It is much worse in Japan than I thought. I have not been back in over 25 years so I did not know it became this retarded. Back in the day my Japanese friends and coworkers did not have this view at all. They would talk about girls and would show a healthy interest in being with one.
I just happened to come across the video at the link below yesterday. It really proves your point. The man in the video makes the following statement. “A real female of course smells, is dirty…of course because it is a human being, it has lots of things. So we have this anime, isn’t it clean and pretty?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDNWcmG6Gjk
Timmy
Dear Timmy
Crazy the story in the link you posted. It also made the way to some newspapers of my home country…
But somehow preferring fantasy over reality seems to be like a recent trend…
But of course a lot of my japanese male friends have also girlfriends and when I’m once in a while go to the infamous love hotel districts, they are often quite full..
So, there’s still same action going on…
But still the fact that there are quite a lot of my japanese friends who honestly assured me that they have little interest in girls still shocked me, as I really never ever heard it from western people… Might be biased, but still…
@all
Actually, a couple of days ago I remembered a discussion I once had with my wife when we decided to get married.
One thing she said was that she expressed her worries something in our relashionship could change after our marriage…
I still can remember my reaction because I found this point very very strange (I have to admit that these days I was a Japan Noob and knew nothing about the culture…)
So, I replied
sry, someone came in my office and I had to hide the window, but the content was already submitted…. anyway
———————————————————————————————-
no, what could change? We have now a good relationship why should it change just because we are married, it even would be more comfortable as we do not need to worry about the visa stuff anymore.
Then, she said approximately something like: “I don’t know, it may be very different but I don’t not know how, but maybe less fun” and so on…
But I really did not pay attention to that and forgot it completely until recently…
But viewing at it from today’s standpoint, I guess I now know what she wanted to say me back in these days…
I really underestimated this situation…
So, what I’m wondering now, did anyone of you had some kind of a similar talk or just experience?
My Japanese wife hasn’t spoken to me in a month. Should I show her the door?
Kayumochi,
The Japanese “Silent Treatment” is very destructive to a relationship. When I went to marriage counseling, the counsellor told my ex-wife this was a disastrous way to deal with marital problems.
I coped with it quite well. During her “silent modes” I did whatever the hell I wanted. I went to the movies by myself, played poker, hung out with friends, she never asked me to DO anything so I was fine and dandy, just like candy.
Silent mode could last anywhere from a week to 6 months (being the longest) and the average was a month.
During her FINAL silent period, I struck up a relationship with a very attractive young lady and thus ended my marriage.
I was the one who broke the silence this time by saying, “I’m leaving”
Do not let your Japanese sexless robot “wife” manipulate you. Be your own person. Don’t worry about pissing her off or making things worse or “keeping the peace”. BE DISRUPTIVE! It’s the only way you’ll get a change.
Show her the door if you like. Otherwise, live YOUR LIFE. Have fun. Life is short.
Allright, pardon for changing the direction a little here but I need your collective advice.
I’ve dealt with a Japanese girl before – went to the same college she was great – actually cooked (in Los Angeles thats a majoooooor A+++) for me and all that. Long story short really liked her but insisted in going back to Japan and became ‘weird’ – and in trying to figure out how/why thats how I came to this site and a had a few of you fellas saying NEVER SETTLE DOWN WITH A JAPANESE WOMAN.
Heres what I need advice for :
I just went to Japan for the first time on transit back to LA. Loved it! Especially the katsu stuff aha, and of course the seemingly endless stream of women in thick ass makeup. SO anyways, I hooked up with a girl from Osaka (weve been in contact a month before I landed Japan) and we get along really well she speaks pretty okay english (never said “have a nice fright back to LA”). This girl though , has travelled around the world, and hates settling down back to Japan – she admits most Japanese are drones, the politeness is a facade, etc etc. What are the chances?
And I gotta say, I am almost at a point of addiction of wanting to go back to Japan. I got a lot of attention, realllllllllllllly enjoy the sexuality of Japanese women, even the ones for sale. A world’s difference in LA where a woman would not even look at you twice unless youre a sleazy rich producer (I am one, just not sleazy). The addicting point for me was men are, in a manner of speaking, to me, are treated king like almost. Thats my take and all the Russian women in Roppongi seemed just boring compared to em (Good times One Host club!)
Even though I never got the nice silent treatment so far longer than a couple of hours…
But at the moment I am currently exposed to a very nasty unwillingness, which results in avoiding every kind of funny activities….
–> Best thing to do: Go out alone/with friends and much better with a bunch of women!
–> If she does not want to talk with you, then you should talk (and even more) to other women….
Every weekend when I come home in the very early morning I think, why does it has to be like that…?
But yeah, its your life live it and if she does not wanna be part of it, then well… its her fault
@Kayumochi
Why is she giving you the silent treatment anyway?
I’d just use it as an excuse to go and do your own thing.
Well I have been back in Japan for 2 years and nearly 3 months and the J wife has fallen back into old habits: avoiding me like the plague at bedtime and of course NEVER initiating anything.
I’ve got something just about to happen with another woman again…
The silent treatment has been going off and on for years now so it doesn’t bother me as much as it used to and yes, I do make the most of this time and do my own thing. She has made me a symbol of everything that is wrong in her life, in other words, wrong with her. She doesn’t realize that if she leaves she is going to be stuck with all the same problems she has now. I think one reason she doesn’t leave is that she knows she can’t make it on her own either in Japan or the States.
I’m latina woman and I have been married for 14 years with a japanese man, our sex life the first years was good, then we had a kid and it dropped and dropped, from 3 times a week, to 3 times a month, and then 3 times a year, or some years 0! Now it’s once every 2 years. Not because of me because I love intimacy and I’m very romantic, but he just stop to feel the desire…sometimes I though, Oh my God I think he must be gay… Or, he must have another woman…but it’s not, he just simple stop feeling the desire because implicate emotional and physical effort. It has been so frustrating, I have talked to him so many times and the response it’s always the same…”You only think of sex? I’m not a pervert. Or, there are other things more important than having sex” Of course I believe that there are very important things in a marriage but sex and intimacy is one of then, having sex once every 2 or 3 years is not healthy for any relationship and I’m getting crazy!! Last week I talked to him and the answer was the same…we share this house, a child, and that’s the important thing, I’m not interesting in “those physical things” I wanted to know what he really think so I asked him, what would you feel if you see me naked passing in front of you? And he said..”.hmmm I don’t know…I think nothing, I don’t have such a pervert mind” I just couldn’t believe it! I don’t remember when was the las time my husband told me I was beautiful or anything at all, not a hug, not even a kiss on the chick, nothing! Thanks God my friends tell me compliments of how pretty I am or how good I look or wherever, I appreciate it in my heart so much, otherwise I will already loose any confident about me…There’s nothing I can do to make my husband look at me like a woman or want to lay down with me, I care a lot about my body and my appearance, I spend the whole day at home cleaning the house perfectly and cocking lots of japanese meals because my husband loves it, trying to always do something to make him happy…but nothing works, he sees me like his mom or like his little sister…I feel so tired of pushing my self so much and receive back nothing that I decide to leave our bedroom last week, I installed a bed on another room for me, it’s just to painful to sleep with him…I’m tired to get in bed and kiss goodnight to his back because he will never give me his face…I’m just to tired to all the avoid, to be ignore all the time…I’m only 37 years old and I feel sad to spend this beautiful years with somebody who thinks I’m just his room-mate. We have a 12 years old daughter so unfortunately because of her I have to keep being with him, my daughter loves him so much and I will break her world if I take her with me…Living with a partner who doesn’t want to take time to give you affection, touch, some kind words it’s hard…I decide to try to put him outside of my heart, he doesn’t deserve my love for him and I don’t deserve feel I’m a woman because I clean the kitchen. It’s just to painful that I don’t want to have him anymore in my heart, so that will help me to go through this without so much torture.
Thank you for your insight. I met only one western woman who shared stories about the constellation western female, Japanese male…
btw. do you live in Japan?
”You only think of sex? I’m not a pervert. Or, there are other things more important than having sex”
–> I get similar responses from my wife, EVERY time I talk about this topic.
The funny thing hereby is that before marriage (during 5 years!) she never complained and in fact initiated approx. 2 times a week (now she NEVER initiated for almost 2 years…).
What response do you get if you ask him something like: “Why did you change your behavior regarding having sex with me?” or “Before you never said anything, why now?”
“I don’t remember when was the last time my husband told me I was beautiful or anything at all”
–> I guess you won’t hear it in the future either.
Last time I heard something similar from my wife was before the marriage… Since then, affection is only there when I’m ill or something like that, but otherwise, it is around zero…
Maybe it is really the best if you get your attention elsewhere, even though it may does not fit with your morals. I do it now this way, and it helps quite a lot at the moment.
That’s the reason I now go clubbing 2 times a week. It’s very exhausting, but at least it helps.
…but nothing works, he sees me like his mom or like his little sister.
–> Somehow true… I asked (applying Japanese style asking technique) my wife recently how she perceives a husband. It turned out that she looks at me more as a familiy member rather than a dating partner… which is just too sad for me, but at least is honest…
My question hereby is: Do you think your husband just feels that it is not right to have sex with his wife, because she is more a sister/mother?
I sometimes have this kind of impression, namely that my wife enjoys having sex, but somehow she just does not feel that it is right to do it with her husband.
Would other people agree to this point or is it just too subjective…?
@Kayumoch
she has made me a symbol of everything that is wrong in her life, in other words, wrong with her.
–> Heard something similar from my wife before Christmas, it was something about a missed opportunity 5 years ago because we dated a lot those days.
Even though it was some kind of vague, it hurt me because I and my family really helped her to cope better with her own life (I found her a quite good job etc. ).
I felt really sad to hear things like this…
@Heinreich
Is it possible that your wife gave you the silent treatment to cause you to leave her so she wouldn’t have to take the blame?
@leanBack
Am with you on that. I can say the simplest, most trivial thing and she will project years of marriage onto it.
IeanBack
Thank you for your insight too. Yes I live in Japan, and excuse my poor english since this is not my first language. My husband too loved intimacy for the first years, but I think that the same happens with the japanese females, he got so into our child that he totally forget I was in there. And every time I asked him about it was the same response…we have great things to share…our house, our kid, bla bla bla
I think japanese people (well some of them are not like that, but that must be a minority) doesn’t think of sex as a way of communicate and make relationships stronger, as a way of enjoying and loving each other, they perceive it like something mechanic and dirty that you should not put too much time or effort on it, or you need to make it when you want to have babys, actually I was very surprise when a japanese female friend of mine who was married too told me “do you do Echi with your husband?” So I told Oh this is the way they see it like “Echi” you know this means “Dirty” Echi o Suru “Do Something Dirty” in japanese, I was in shock…
It’s a total different point of view of intimacy, I could never understand why most of all my japanese friends females after they had kids they want to sleep with their kids on a futon and leave their husbands alone, I think he doesn’t care too much either.
I’m sad you have the same problem and it’s just amazing that they all have the exacly response for all of us…you only think of sex? I don’t want to say what you already know but it’s not going to change, just like my partner…I love my husband and I will do anything to be only with him till I die because despite of the sexless life he as a man has so many good attributes that I appreciate but humanly it’s just impossible! How can you live and sleep with somebody you love without been able to touch her/him? And specially is worst for me cause the japanese man doesn’t like when the woman wants to start something, it’s a big turn off for them, if it happens it’s because he is the one who decides. I hope God will forgive me but sooner or later I’m afraid I’ll commit adultery, something that goes agains my morals and my dream of a family but how else can you survive?? And what if I do it and I feel more empty after that…I’m a woman, I need some emotional things involve not just body.
And you know that I have 3 female friends who have been here in Japan longer than me and there situations was the same as mine, my friends advice was, “look you have too to stop looking at your husband as your man and looking at him as just the father of your kid and as a family because that’s the way they look at us, and you should go and meet someone else too just like we do” So I think that if we want to keep living with our spouses (in my case for the sake of my kid) we have to learn the Art of Gaman or just say Sayonara to our morals and bring some happiness to ours life…
@Carol
Thanks for that post. It’s great to hear a female’s perspective. But it’s also discouraging to see that it happens to non-Japanese wives as well as husbands. If nothing else, it helps confirm the cultural depth of the mother-child relationship, and how it is the strongest familial bond; and the husband-wife relationship being most similar to roommates, or a brother-sister relationship in the Western sense.
Your point of the Japanese calling sex “echi” really drives home the point. Just as some words have no equivalent translation from one language to another, Japanese culture may simply have never fully developed sex as part of an overall intimate and sharing relationship among husband and wife… it’s just not part of their “vocabulary” so to speak, and must be learned, like a new language… Of course, one must WANT and make an EFFORT to learn a new language if they are to acquire it.
@Cindy, No te preocupes… your English is completely understandable…
Your daughter is already 12 and goes to school and your husband is working long hours, I assume, So, do you have something which keeps you out of the house, like a hobby or so?
“I hope God will forgive me but sooner or later I’m afraid I’ll commit adultery, something that goes against my morals and my dream of a family but how else can you survive?? And what if I do it and I feel emptier after that…I’m a woman, I need some emotional things involve not just body.”
I had the same concerns just two months ago…
When I chose going this path, I first had real problems to look at myself, because I really thought I became a very bad person. But however, it’s now better.
If you want to go this path, I guess you should go slowly and take your time to get to used to your new freedom.
I did not have a date for almost 6 years with other women, so I feel it now refreshing just to go to a (first) date and also just talking is fine.
If you are afraid of feeling more empty afterwards, it is may better to look for (long term) dates more than for one-night-stands, which in fact can be perceived quite empty afterwards…
For me ons are not an option at the moment, as I already feel quite empty due to my personal situation. In fact, the lack of emotional affection and desire from my wife is the thing which I miss the most, much more than just sex by it.
So maybe you just start having a look for western males married to Japanese females and just begin a chat about “the situation” without any intentions… it can work wonders just to talk about it first…
But I don’t want / can’t consider you doing that, but I gained a lot of enjoyment back since I’m doing it…
Another point regarding “t’s just amazing that they all have the exactly response for all of us…you only think of sex?“
The thing which makes me upset every time I get this answer is:
They exactly knew us quite a long time and what and how often we like to do it. And I’m now convinced that they also know how they gonna change (I just have not seen the signs)…
it would have been nothing but fair to state that clearly, before getting married
(Sometimes I feel some kind of fooled, even though I haven’t done my homework and did not know anything about Japanese marriage perceptions…, it was my fault assuming it would be similar to western standards)
@Nelson
Good point.
It’s fine that the mother-child relashionship is the strongest, I guess if I had a child I could live with that. But does this mean to actually neglect and ignore the emotional needs of your spouse? I just can’t get that
As it seems sex takes part everywhere here but between husband and wife…
I really doubt that one can learn this “new language” in Japan. They are just too much cultural things against it…
@IenBack Gracias! but still need to work more on my english grammar…
“Sometimes I feel some kind of fooled, even though I haven’t done my homework and did not know anything about Japanese marriage perceptions…, it was my fault assuming it would be similar to western standards” I feel the same way foled everyday too…but I think they didn’t it know this either, cause they don’t know our standards, they think that their standards are Ok and that’s normal. I think that at the beginning they are just to excite to be with somebody who is “different” and loving so they can somehow feel not only loved in a special way but different from the group, people will tell them good compliments and they might feel some kind of special, my husband told me that at the beginning “I’m so proud to introduce you to my friends!” But after marriage they just forget the special, the magic, the spark and they start to look in us all the bad stuff that is an insult to their culture. I can’t generalize in millions of japanese it can be real different people but what I know from my own experience and looking at my friends the japanese spouses always are trying to change their gaijin partner even the smallest things. I have spend years learning the culture, the language and the manners as polite and perfect can be but for my husband I still can’t get the real understanding of such a rich culture, and one of those things is not show what you have in your mind, don’t show your feelings to others, wth! Why we have to be us the gaijins spouses the ones who push so hard when they just stay in their comfort zone.
And yes, well I go to the gym and try to exercise as much as I can, my husband has his own business and doesn’t work until late so he always come around dinner time, I think because he likes my food, I never repeat a dish in a month and always try to prepare something new, I realize I have been doing this unconsciously to somehow catch his attention on me cause I know how he loves food, but that doesn’t work either…any way cooking has become one of my escapes too now. But tomorrow I’l go out to a club with my girlfriend, my husband doesn’t even care if I come late too, I can’t understand why he never ever get jealous, are the girls like that too?
“the lack of emotional affection and desire from my wife is the thing which I miss the most, much more than just sex by it” Me too…the lack of emotional affection is worse than the lack of sex…
And I like the idea to chat with other people married with japanese, actually just coming to this forum has helped me a lot. I was in internet trying to look for something to tell me I wasn’t crazy and I found this page, I was in shock to read all the posts and experiences most from guys but so so similar to mine…so it came to my mind a gaijin male friend I was talking years ago who was complaining that her wife after having kids was so different, she took all his salary and didn’t gave him back to much, she didn’t care to look appealing and beautiful anymore and when he wanted to have intimancy most of the time she had headaches and when they could she only opened her legs like a death thing, looked at the ceiling and made no sound…Omg I can’t even imagine to be able to do that. My friend told me he felt he was raping her cause wasn’t a reciprocal thing. I never though all japanese wives changed so much as the males, I just though my friend was unlucky and besides his wife wasn’t very social either. The tips of how stimulate your night and your partner with toys, clothes, candles, music or wherever just doesn’t work for them, at least after they’re marriage and specially with kids.
For now I need to start forgetting and expecting anything from my husband for the sake of my heart and wellbeing. My dream was to love and be loved from the man I choose for the rest of my life since cheating was something I was always against, but I can’t go the rest of my life living without affection and love…this is just more than somebody can take…
So sad everybody is disperse, we should make a club of the heartbreaks gaijins spouses! lol
@Nelson Even we can understand the language the “Ecchi” word tells me a lot of their perception of what we call “Make Love” for them “Ecchi” has a meaning of “Dirty, Naughty, Pervert and Frivolous thing” That’s how they see it, that’s how they sell it too with the manga.
@ Cindy
Yes, knowing something intellectually is much different than FEELING the meaning. For example, I could say “F*ck You!” to a Japanese, and they understand it is a bad word, but they cannot FEEL the incisiveness of the words. (The same would be true in the reverse.)…
So my revelation from your illuminating comments about “etchi” is that the Japanese do not have a cultural understanding of “making love” and all that it encompasses beyond just the intercourse. For them, intercourse (sex) serves two purposes: either for ‘etchi’ pleasures, or for procreating. The idea of sex as a way to strengthen the bond between partners (especially after marriage & kids) is foreign to them. They might see it in movies and want to copy the ideal of it, but they cannot intrinsically FEEL the act of ‘making love’ since it is not part of their cultural vocabulary.
The difficult part is that we, as non-Japanese in this blog, know what is missing in the relationship. But, the Japanese don’t know, and so it never occurs to them that it is necessary. And even if they did, for most of them, it would be too much ‘work’ to try and find out…