Up until now we have never introduced any angles on picking up in Japan, or for that matter anything to do with romance in Japan in general (except that is, for our unfinished series on Japanese Love Hotels). This is for several reasons, the first being that most of us have been here for more than ten years, and picking up ladies in Japan seems to have become “second nature” – so much so that most of us ended up marrying one (or two!) of them. By no means does this mean that we claim to be pick-up machines, but it just didn’t seem to be a topic that needed airing amongst our mostly long term Japan resident readership. Despite running Stippy Friends (the best online deai spot to meet real Japanese girls), we thought that writing about the same would be slightly crass, and would turn people away from discovering our other more serious, and sometimes humorous perspectives on Japan. It seems we were wrong.
In fact, we have had multiple requests from guys and girls to share secrets of landing a date (or more..!) in Japan. People have asked us through the contact form all sorts of questions, and despite some of them being junk, many were imploring help to decode the mystery of romance the Japanese way, perhaps to heat up their lonely summer nights!
Lets face it, picking up girls (if you are a guy) or being picked up by a handsome guy (if you are a gal) is a real rush even in your own country. Add to this the added tokimeki (the racing heart throb of potential love) in cross-cultural situations, you are in for a novelty that just may be addictive. Cross cultural “deai junkies”, find that apart from the normal cauldron of emotion, misunderstanding, love making, and fighting that prevail in any mono-cultural situation, they crave for the multi-racial differences in every aspect of physical and emotional human culture that international couples enjoy – differences in basic values, food, language, skin colour, body shape/smell, and even different ways of going about the ultimate goal of filling your nights with steamy love!
With that said, many writers here are married, or have long time j-girlfriends. While we still do academic research into the field of lovin’ in Japan, our applied “nanpa” technique seems to be eroding away under the tyranny of our better halves. We needed to call in the cavalry to help us fill in our new category called “Japan: Girls”. The nice guys over at The Osaka Crew (TOC) offered to take stippy over to “their side”, and write some pieces for us that will hopefully fill (or re-kindle) your desire to go out and get ’em in your next night out at the heartland, or maybe Shinsaibashi in Osaka. (For our female readers, please read and let us know what you think too. Are we getting it wrong?)
What these articles may show you though, is that despite some cultural quirks, girls are girls in any culture. Sure, it helps to know these subtle differences, they help refine your game – but it is the commonalities that are important too. Japanese girls are a different animal when it comes to going out with them, but baiting the hook so that you are in their field of vision does not require you to change your basic instincts. Enough of the disclaimers (honey, this was not written by me!), and enough of a lead in – here is the first essay by the pros at TOC – enjoy “Leading”.
“Leading”
by RedpoleQ (The Osaka Crew)
Women want to be lead through an experience. They don’t want to decide the experience, they just want to have it safely.
They have to trust your strength that they will be safe with you on that journey.
It’s Sunday morning and I just jumped out of bed at the crack of 2:28pm to write the above words down. I’m with a woman I met the night before at a club here in Osaka and we’re lying around talking.
“So, when did you decide to sleep with me?” I ask her. She doesn’t want to tell me but finally she admits that it was after I tossed her on my bed and climbed in after her, which is interesting because it wasn’t all smooth sailing from there.
Then I ask her about the other guys in her life. You see, every attractive woman has one, two, three or more guys out there who are e-mailing and calling, and asking her out on dates. And every time I start a relationship with a new woman, I always want to know, why me? Why didn’t she end up with those other guys who have been trying so hard to win her over. Why could I just come in and sweep her off her feet?
One guy she met through friends at the beach—she calls him “Sportsman” because he’s muscular. This guy is a good looking guy, but she won’t go out with him. He tells her he’s good with women, motte motte, and she believes it’s true. He displays his muscles for her.
The other guy does delivery at her store. She likes him. She wants to be with him. She tells me he’s got a great personality. I ask her what the problem is, how come she’s not with him right now instead of me. She told me that me that he’s a “bit weak”. He asks her out, but buckles at the least bit of resistance. He doesn’t push it. She thinks he’s afraid of rejection so he just let’s it go, playing aloof to hide his weakness. Interesting…
She says she likes a guy to lead and as I’m hearing her, in my mind I’m reviewing the evening’s chain of events that led me to where I am now. I’m reviewing my life experience with women and I’m feeling back to the time when I was that delivery guy. It’s not hard for me to recall that time because it was just a few years ago, and only recently that I stamped that guy out completely. Even now, I can still hear him vaguely in the background, more like a mother really, “Don’t go that way, it’s dangerous and I worry. Don’t make mother worry.”
It’s hard to remember all the times I was that delivery guy because there are too many bad memories to keep them all straight. I can remember the feeling though. The powerlessness, the feeling of uselessness, and confusion as I watched my life unfold and the slow motion crashes. Dating to me used to be like some kind of natural disaster. Inevitable, overwhelming, uncaring, and very, very destructive. I remember a girl I dated over 10 years ago on seeing a fellow classmate, tell me, “You don’t have IT. He does.”
But that didn’t discourage me. I always knew that if I could find out what it was that I could have it for myself. I watched the it guys, I studied them, and what they did and how. I copied them, their attitudes, they’re clothes, they’re body language and mannerism—trying them on, trying to figure out what constituted it.
I modeled a variety of guys with different styles, melding them together, taking what seemed to work best for me. And then in November 2004, I found out that there were guys out there, pros, who studied this stuff like scientists. Coming up with theories, hypothesizing, and testing them out like any professional researcher. My learning accelerated. I got some top notch coaching, and I continued to work at it. And then BOOM! Here I am, almost three years later.
Anyway, back to the story. I then suggest we leave the club to grab a bite to eat. She says she doesn’t want to go and then, less than 5 minutes later, I take her hand and lead her right out of the club to grab some food around the corner which was just the first step in the journey that finished with more than just a filling meal.
These memories, the good ones, are still easy to remember, they are a regular part of my life now, but not so much that they are completely normal to every part of my self. Even while doing what I’ve been learning to do all these years in my journey towards manhood, towards sovereignty, it’s strange to be so comfortable when I enter that mystical zone like feeling that comes from innate understanding.
Sometimes I step outside my self and I can see that, now, I’ve got IT. Now, I’m the model. Lead, lead, lead. This is what separates the men from the men.
So while I lead, I feel for those who can’t and I want to help them get to where I am in a way that I didn’t get help. I want to help all those delivery guys develop IT.
And here’s a simple thing you can start doing right NOW to help you lead next time you interact with a Japanese woman (or, likely any woman!). From now on, you’re going to stop being like most guys, following the woman’s lead. In dating, as in dancing, you as the man lead so she as a woman can just enjoy the ride.
Find out what she LIKES, not what she wants. Don’t ask her what she wants to do, or where she wants to go, or what she wants to eat. No, no, no. Rather, ask her questions that reveal who she is and what she enjoys and save that information to use it on her later.
Find out what foods she doesn’t like, and what kinds of things she does with her friends. Does she like eating ice cream on a hot day or maybe she doesn’t like sweet things at all. Learn about her and plan the experience you’re going to lead her through around that. Test and challenge her by taking her just a bit outside of her comfort zone.
Anyone can do what I do, anyone of you can go into a club and have a sexy Japanese girl, or a hot Ukrainian model give you their number right there while their boyfriends are watching, but you have to get IT first.
When I first came to Japan, I remember seeing people drinking their drinks right next to the vending machines and I used to wonder why they didn’t just take it and keep walking like we do back home. But I wondered, if maybe I was missing something, so the next time I was thirsty I decided to go through the looking glass and see it from the other side
I bought my drink and I stood there, trying to feel what that salaryman that I saw the day before was feeling. As I stood there, watching everyone hustle by on their way to their busyness, time slowed down for me and I looked around and saw, that I was taking a break. It wasn’t about the drink, it was about taking some time off from the hustle. Come and see things from my side.
Look forward to more by the Osaka Crew on Stippy. Leave your impressions on this new type of stippy article below. We are keen to know if it works, or if we should forget about it…
I agree that a certain amount of assertiveness is needed in order to get the girl. But there’s a fine line between leading and being too pushy, don’t you think ? I guess you can understand that difference with experience and you outlined.
Overall – good article. Looking forward to read others like it.
One big ad…. they just want your money! go read free stuff on the internet .. free forums and articles on that matter, don’t waste your bucks
Hey Delivery boy, or is it water boy??, lucky all your targets are empty headed chicks that think little of jumping in the sack with a new guy each week…if you tried it on real women with sophistication and experience youd get cut back in 3 mins.
Good article, no need to hate on it. To say seduction tips don’t work on the more intelligent girls is really a misunderstanding. This particular technique, leading, may backfire with certain girls, but it’s still a good one to have in your arsenal. Note that you need to make the girl like you before you can grab her hand and lead her out of the club. I once read a book called “How to Seduce Women” and it had similar advice. I recommend the book to anyone who wants serious help in pick-up techniques. It’s kind of an embarrassing title though, and you don’t want to leave it lying around on the table.
I didn’t see anything specific to Japanese girls in this article, though. Maybe in the next few.
It’s not enough to make me angry, but not good at all. I expect more from Stippy, as this falls on the same level of Gaijinpot.
You know, I’ve used Stippy Friends and met some nice people out of it (and some girls in the market for gaijin guys), but I know any girl with an ad on there, should remove it after reading this topic.
Matt, thanks for the comment – that’s the sort of feedback I was after. As you say, this may seem to be an ad, but of course stippy not getting anything out of this (other than a fun read..). The guys at TOC offered filling in a void where information was requested by some readers, one that we couldn’t (or more accurately, wouldn’t) fill ourselves. For that, the least they deserve is a link or two, as there seems to be people out there interested in their services!
Syd, ouch – gaijinpot? really? 🙂 We will try to give views through the guys at TOC in a manner that is entertaining and may be useful. To broaden our spectrum a little into the love/dating side can not be seen as a bad thing, although it may be stereotypical of other sites if we don’t take care. I guess we can’t please all readers, but we appreciate you letting us know. (By the way, the Japanese girls on Stippy Friends mainly sign up on our partner Japanese sites. We share the database of profiles with hundreds of partner sites, so likely they wont ever read this article. Don’t worry, we already thought about that one – you are safe).
We will try this idea it out for a bit, and if it continues to be an “ad” for most, or just too similar to other sites, we will certainly pull the plug.
What I found most shocking about this article is that there are gaijin men in Japan who will pay someone to teach them how to pick up girls. Either Japanese women have become immune to the gaijin “mystique” or the guys heading to Japan now are of a different ilk than my generation.
When I moved to Japan in the late 1980s basically all my guy friends needed was to to be somewhere in Shinsaibashi and have a pulse. The girls seemed to do all the rest. (And I knew these guys back home and none of them were even close to being what you would call “players”.)
Race war!! Maybe in Roppongi!!! One of The Osaka Crew instructors is black and I have seen him attract many stunning women. I am a good looking, WHITE, gaijin, banker but I took the course, and found it very beneficial. It is true that it is not all that difficult to get women in any country and it is even easier here in Japan, however it is much easier if you know what you are doing… and that’s what TOC teach. I know about 5 of their x students and each of them are extremely happy with the results…… i.e. they can now attract the women they choose in their life rather than just gaijin lovers…
Whatever pal, your site has pics with you and heaps of hot girls…
Can we raise the bar a little please?
I think the quality of comments is about on level with content of this article. Or is that what you’re talking about: Can we raise the bar a little on this article? Come on, guys! Where’s your decency? I was younger once, so I know the temptation, but what about diseases you might be catching/giving/spreading? What about babies you might be making? Does that not bother you?
Shell: What are you, the morality police? Why are these sorts of comments always aimed at the guy. Takes two to mess the sheets. The girl is just as much a part of any of this by letting herself be picked up by the guy, and taken home. They are the ones spreading any disease and making babies just as much as the fellow. I got a VD from one of the first Japanese chicks I did – it served me right, but she was the one that picked me up.
By the way, I think “raising the bar”, refers to Secret Lurker’s girlfriend – see picture in comment 13.
But the article in question is this one, and this one’s aimed at men. If it had been aimed at women, I would’ve made the very same comment, changing only one sentence to “Come on, gals!”
I would think that raising the bar would mean people contributing their own experiences of leading a woman in an interaction and it turning out well for both of them.
This isn’t only about picking up either. This is about interacting with women in general. Women as a whole like to be lead if they’re happy where they’re being taken.
That’s the point of the article. Men give away they power to lead to women and then wonder why women get bored and go elsewhere.
This applies even more so for j-girls.
My comment to raise the bar was to RacialTruth who commented above me. Not sure why he bothers.
This isn’t usual Stippy type content, but I agree with Ao, no need to hate it.
I tried your Stippy Friends and its pretty good. I’m not good at talking in person so being able to look at all the J-gals photos and reading their profile helps alot before I start emailing them.
Red,
You can become good at talking to people in person. It’s like any other skill that takes practice and experience.
Many of the best guys started out terribly, and that’s why they wanted to study social dynamics and learn how to handle them.
It’s really a lot of fun knowing you can have an enjoyable interaction with complete strangers.
I think some excellent points are made here. Though, I take exception to comments like “oh that will never work on an intelligent, sophisticated woman”. Thanks bud! I think guys who think like that are what we call in the US, “Cock-blockers”. Guys who go to the club and become the simpathy, “gal pal” guy to all the girls at the bar. While most guys are getting their courage up to make an attempt to speak to a pretty lady, guys like you are whispering her ear. “Don’t dance with him, he looks like a player….trust me I am a guy I know these things….” he says. Fact is intelligent or not, women are subject to the whimsy of their hearts. So if your charming words make her “FEEL” good, then you are in. My gift has always been humor. And Japanese women are much easier to make laugh, I think because the tactic is not as commonly used on them. But all in all, making a woman laugh lowers her defenses against you and makes her feel good about the experience of being with you. They yearn to be a man that can make them happy. She will make a bond with you (mentally) each time she sees you, because she remembers how much FUN it is to be WITH you. She will say to her girlfriends, he is so funny. I always have a blast around him. Then of course you have to deal with the new found interest her girlfriends have in you. Thats a different story. Women are not team players like men are…
So after dating Japanese women exclusively for a while (and then eventually marrying one) I think it would be important to include a little note in this article that Japanese girls are nuts.
It would help, you know, people.
I’m not sure why I’m bothering to read this. But looking at this just reminds of me why foreigners here have the stereotype applied to them that they do. Every site relating to Japan done in English I come across has something like “Making Out In Japanese.” I’m not commenting on anyone’s behaviour. But the community on the net that surrounds these habits is the disturbing part.
What a load of arrogant bullshit this article is…too bad the writer doesnt believe in serendipity….he must have a sad past to have to make such a Herculian effort to be cool and get laid….no wonder so many japanese woman call gaijin men ‘back home losers`…..
Bentoman & Kelev – couldn’t agree more!
This article is not too bad, but some of the other “pick-up technique” sites I have seen are disturbing at best; scary at worst.
I have a suggestion…when picking up, how about just being yourself?
The existence of “pick-up technique” sites makes me think that there must be a lot of people out there who aren’t confident enough to do that.
A lot of guys don’t have the confidence to be themselves. In this case, we have to teach them that there’s nothing wrong with being themselves and that they are very cool people that women would be lucky to be with.
A lot of other guys see themselves as being guys who can’t have women–guys who women are not attracted to. In this case, teaching them to be more themselves is not the answer, because if being themselves attracted women, they’d already have them.
Just like acheivement in any part of life there are no simple remedies. If there were, they wouldn’t be looking for help.
If these guys can’t get a woman by being themselves, they need to change something more fundamental than their bar game. Japan attracts some of the biggest lowlifes the West has to offer it seems.
Seems a little short sighted to me… ‘how to pick up a girl’, how about, ‘how to keep a girl’, how to be an interesting person? No?
your gaijin sister’s next after you took my japanese sister.
hi
The commenter who said it\’s arrogance has got it backwards. It takes humility to admit to yourself that you could benefit from advice on how to attract the opposite sex.
It also takes courage to put your ego on the line and try to meet women on the spot, without introduction and, especially, when you know other men are watching you.
I\’d wager that the snarky comments here are from men who are either too weak or to arrogant to admit that they can\’t attract the opposite sex as well as they\’d like to. As such, they deeply resent anyone who has the simple honesty to admit that they like to pick up girls and the gumption to try and get better at it.
It seems to me that what \”The Osaka Crew\’\’ — OK the names and lingo ARE a little ridiculous — teaches isn\’t at all about disrespecting women nor preying on them nor lying to them.
They seem to be taking a very common sense approach and just amplifying it and presenting it in a way the people feeling comfortable and motivated to learn.
I do agree, though, with the guy who said you needn\’t spend money to get this kind of advice. It\’s all over the Internet. Still, if the fees don\’t make too much dent in your budget, it\’s always more fun to learn from teachers than by yourself.
I like shy Japanese boys, especially when I know they want me but are too afraid of asking me out.
Well, I don’t like to ‘lead’ them but still i like to make them even more nervous by showing them that I like them too and do things which would be 恥ずかしすぎ for japanese girls.
I remember a time where I and a Japanese boy were so drunk that we end up sleeping in one bed. He was, of course, too shy to do anything. So I just made him put off my shirt, but after seeing my bra he was like ‘僕はすごくラッキー’. However, after a while we fell asleep while he had his face put on my breasts (I really wonder how he could breath XD). The next morning he was like ‘Thank you so much for this experience.’ ‘I never had this opportunity’. He was 27 and a researcher…Moreover, he said that in the past he spent 95% into his work or research and had little fun. But from this night on he wants to change him-self ( i hope i didn’t create a monster *gg*).
There are other Japanese boy relationship stories but I don’t want to bother you with tem.
I went to their bootcamp and it changed my life, not just with women. I always did OK with women, but had trouble advancing the relationship whether it be a long term or one night stand and it was my fault. After taking lessons with these guys, everything changed. Most of my problem was self esteem. I was overweight (lost 100 pounds since then), and it was difficult for me to be so outgoing and assertive. At the end of the night of my training with them, I had over 20 phone numbers from women I thought were out of my league (one was a professional actress and model and another was a well known dancer who I dated for a while before meeting my wife). This training works well on all women, but I think Japanese are more difficult especially if your language abilities are limited like mine were.
I am 44 now and married to a much younger lady I met in Japan and we are very happy.
These guys are for real. I saw Redpole Q, number and kiss close 2 (both were at least 9’s ) Russian hostesses that were not friendly nor interested in being bothered by men. His other partners are just as good as we all witnessed.
A smart person can learn from others (even if it is what not to do) no matter what subject it is. These guys know their stuff and it was worth every yen I paid. Thanks guys.
i
Stuntman,
Something doesn’t add up. You took a course on picking up gals, then ended up getting married, and now you recommend the course to others??
I think the pick up tips guys have something to teach about picking up girls, but their advice is totally worthless when it comes to meeting someone you’d like to marry.
What doesn’t add up? I met my wife using these skills. Just because you learn to meet women doesn’t mean you have committed yourself to being a player forever. I was at the age where I was ready to settle down. If I was 20 years old again I’d never think of marriage, but at over 40 I have had my fun and alot of it happened after this course.
My wife and I have a great relationship because of some of the things the courses teach you. Not just how to get the girl you want (keywords are “you want”), but how to get her into a relationship (if you wish) and how to keep it going good and putting excitement into it. To keep women interested in you takes alot of work. If they are interested and in love with you they will keep you happy. This class also helped give me enough confidence to start my own business. I learned to take risks (walking up to a woman to talk to her is a risk, a big one for most men) not just with women, but other parts of life too. I am much more confident.
Look into their other courses, not just their pick up classes.
“Just because you learn to meet women doesn’t mean you have committed yourself to being a player forever.”
You paid for a class to learn how to pick up on girls, and now you’re in a situation where you have no use for that skill. That’s probably good news for you, personally, but I think you’d agree, it doesn’t do much to recommend the course. It’s a bit like investing in surfing lessons, then moving to Moscow and telling people there they should really learn to ride the waves.
Confidence is key, but if the pickup course is about anything, it’s about faking confidence. Real confidence comes from how you live your life and the course doesn’t have anything to say about that, nor should it, really. Nothing wrong with learning to put your best foot forward, which, in the dating world, might amount to faking a bit of confidence. Just don’t ask anyone to believe that the course has anything to say about the true source of confidence and/or character.
Believe what you want. Everyone (even outgoing people) have to fake confidence at first, but once you get to the point where you realize no one will kill you for talking to them then real confidence kicks in.
As far as wasting my “education” and not using my skill, no education is ever a waste. I chose my wife not settled for her. I met her with her 4 friends and hit on all of them but immediately wanted to know the lady who became my wife. I never would have walked up to a table with 5 women and talked to them before this course. I plan on teaching this to my nephews and sons (hopefully) in the future. I have also used this confidence building in my hypnotherapy practice. Every action is built on memory. The mind can’t tell what is real and what is madeup if you focus on it enough. So this “fake confidence” will eventially become real in the mind. Also, this course teaches you other self improvement skills such as dress, body language (reading and your own), joke and story telling, so it isn’t so much making women think they want to know you as it is improving yourself to letting the woman decide they are interested in you.
I know it difficult for most people to understand that there is set rule of interaction we follow as humans, but most of the time we just take it for granted. These guys have spent hours figuring this out and getting shot down by women while learning, so they have earned the respect I give them.
Greetings Stuntman,
I am interested in taking this course as I think it will help me like it helped you.
Can you please tell me more information about this guys (The Osaka Crew or whatever) that you have learn the technique how to pick up the women you WANT.
I would really appreciate it, please help me who haven’t find my mate yet……you are very lucky to be get the woman you want. I appreciate if you could send the information to my e-mail: [email protected]
Thank you very much in advance for your kind help and assistance! Really appreciate it and may God bless you more!
Sushikid:
Here is all you need to know –
Make a choice — how important is your dignity?
If you value it、forget about strategizing or using “skills” to pick up girls. Just be yourself and enjoy the adventure. If you love yourself, you’ll attract like-minded women. If you don’t you won’t, no matter what Redpole might try to tell you.
If, on the other hand, you don’t value your dignity all that much, just head to the nearest pickup spot and stroll up to every girl you like the look of and start asking questions. No matter what she says, just keep asking questions. Never talk about yourself. Never. If you get shot down, move on. Tokyo is full of bars and full of women. If you’re willing to get shot down, you can get laid every night.
that is all you need to know
Major Bristols:
Thank you very much for the reply and enlightenment. I really appreciate it. I have a trouble talking with girl or leading the conversation because sometimes I don’t know how to follow up with conversation. I mean, I can ask in the beginning and say hi to her but after that I don’t know how to bring the conversation so she could enjoy it and willing to tell her number to me.
Actually now I am located in California. You said that the most important thing is just keep asking, but do you know what kind of thing that I can ask her? I mean, the question that look “normal” and “natural”, not obviously seen as fake question just to approach her, because I know women are sensitive and they could know if we are truly asking that question to them because we don’t know or just pretending to be friendly with them. Can you give some examples? I would appreciate it. Please enlighten me more. Thank you so much!
Sushikid,
As I mentioned, it depends on whether you mind getting shot down, i.e. surrendering a little bit of your dignity. My advice on that is–don’t worry about your dignity. If you really want to become a pick up artist, the first thing isn’t to learn to say or what not to say. That’s not so important. What is important is that you be willing to approach, say, 20 women within a couple of hours, if necessary to get the number of phone numbers you want. This has 2 benefits. Firstly, the more women you approach, the more women you’ll end up having the opportunity to date. Secondly, practice makes perfect. Conversational style is a very personal thing. there is no formula and anyone who tries to sell you one is probably a fraud. if you practice speaking to women, you WILL get better at it. If you practice, but don’t get better, you probably should just give up on the pick up game.
Women are people. Sure there are some things worth knowing about the differences between the ways they tend to think and men tend to think, but it is also crucial to remember that they are not from another planet.
Here are some conversation starters i like;
how’s my hair? (you gotta have a big smile, of course, for this one, and be ready to follow up with. Do you think i should try some highlights, or a curler? or something silly like that. women love to talk about hair and the fact that you are willing to call attention to your own shows boldness or confidence)
is that your real hair? works too. especially if the girl has nice hair. if the hair isn’t so nice, avoid this one. you don’t want to, initially, say anything that could be misinterpreted as demeaning.
isnt this a great song? are you looking for someone? can you guess my weight?
sure, 80 percent of the time, max, the hotter women are going to laugh in your face, or just ignore you. But remember, you’re approaching 20 women an hour — one every three minutes, average. So if you go out for four hours, that’s 80 women. if you get shot down 90 percent of the time, you will still have 8 phone numbers!!!! So maybe that is exaggerated. only approach 10 women an hour, then you would only get 4 phone numbers, which should be plenty for one night.
all the men i know who pick up a lot work this way. i know some guys who do well without that, but they are exceptionally good looking and wealthy.
lastly, i am pretty sure sushikid is already in the Osaka Crew. he uses the same lingo. obvious.
Hi major bristols,
Thank you, thank you so much, so the key is keep practicing and forget my dignity, am I right?
But what about if I ask something stupid and not only one girl, but all girls that I approaced within that 1 hour rejected or ignored me? I ever read a book that you have to be careful and pay attention in what you say when you are talking with women, one mistake can ruin her mood and brush her off.
What is the line that you use the most to get her phone number at the end of the conversation? I just thought she would not want to hang out with a stranger that she just met for 10-15 minutes that easy, especially if she got the looks.
Also, I am not quite sure what do you mean by “lastly, i am pretty sure sushikid is already in the Osaka Crew. he uses the same lingo. obvious”? I am in Cali right now and there is no Osaka Crew in here (I think), and I haven’t take their lesson.
Sushikid:
It’s obvious you’re posing as a commenter, when actually, you are Redpole or another member of the “Osaka Crew.”
Why is it obvious? You use the same sort of language: “leading” the conversation with women, “Cali,” your nickname “sushikid” etc. Even more tellingly, your logic follows exactly the Osaka Crew’s advertising pitch.
You ask:
“But what about if I ask something stupid and not only one girl, but all girls that I approached within that 1 hour rejected or ignored me?”
Keep trying. You have to be able to generate conversation on your own. The last thing you want to do is to try using canned lines you were taught at a “boot camp” or from a book. You must be creative and you must take an honest, earnest interest in the woman you’re talking with. That doesn’t mean you have to want to fall in love with every girl you chat up, it means you need to find something about them that sincerely intrigues you. If you can’t find that, find another target.
If you can’t do that, admit it, and accept your fate. Nothing wrong with being a “normal” guy and leaving the “pick up” game to others who have talent for it.
If, on the other hand, you CAN deliver canned lines convincingly, forget about Japan! Head straight for Hollywood: you’ve got a huge career in acting ahead, and the women will be doing their best to pick you up once you’ve made it there.
You ask:
“What is the line that you use the most to get her phone number at the end of the conversation?”
I never use a “line” for that. One of the great things about Japan is you almost never have to worry about this. Nine times out of 10, a gal will give you her business card right after you give her yours. If she doesn’t, just say: If you give me your phone number, I promise to call you. Or: May I have your phone number?
It’s a huge mistake to use any kind of subterfuge or smooth moves to get a woman’s phone number. If she gives it to you under those circumstances, you have just succeeded in adding a prospect that’s not fully qualified, i.e. a potential waste of time. And remember, you’ve already given her your biz card. If she was too shy or embarrassed to give you her number, she can always contact you if she’s interested.
If you’re going to be a pick up artist, you’re very quickly going to find that the biggest limit on your dating activities is time. The very last thing you need is to waste time calling a woman who wasn’t interested enough in you to straight up give you her phone number when you asked for it straight up.
You write:
“ I just thought she would not want to hang out with a stranger that she just met for 10-15 minutes that easy, especially if she got the looks.”
Your instincts are correct. 8 out of 10 nice-looking women will not even think of spending time with someone they just met for 10-minutes, unless you’re exceptionally handsome, exceptionally wealthy or so infectiously entertaining you make the Osaka Crew look like a bunch of momma’s-boy accountants. (But if you were a wealthy, entertaining stud, you wouldn’t be writing this e-mail, would you?)
You need to play the numbers game. Only 2 in 10 of the finest-looking women are even going to consider your approach. You write that you’re afraid that saying the wrong thing will turn one off and she’ll ignore you. The odds are very high you’ll be ignored anyway! If you really want to count your success in numbers and if you really want to target only the hotter-to-hottest gals, you have to accept that you’ll be rejected a lot. That means you’re only chance to do real numbers is to be prepared to approach dozens of women and to gracefully embrace rejection as a learning experience.
major bristols, thank you for your advice and I will make sure I remember it in my mind and apply it when I am trying to approach girls.
For clarification, I guarantee that I am not affiliated nor taking any of Osaka Club program yet, so I have no idea about the boot camp that you mentioned. I just happened to use the same keyword or “lingo” because I quote it from the article and because it is their article, of course it made me sounds like them. If I am already take their class or already a part of them, I won’t be this desperate and write this post to beg for your advice. Ok, you said I have to try to generate the conversation on my own, I tried before, and it really worked…such like at the party, I asked a girl if she likes the music or what does she think about the drink….it worked well for conversation opener, but the hardest part that I have been struggling with is to “lead” the conversation that already started into more “intimate” conversation to lure her to think that I am not a stranger to her and tap her “unconscious” mind to ignite her interest on me. Usually, I ran out of topic in the middle of conversation or I was afraid to ask follow up questions that would be considered to “personal” for her, like “what is your hobbies” or “do you have boyfriend” or “so, what are you doing on the weekend, hang out with your boyfriend?” or “am I holding you up from getting back to your boyfriend’s side?” or something like that. I think those questions are good to ask when we already become friend and know each other a bit longer, right? I can’t just asked those questions after met her just 10-15 minutes ago. Even if she positively replied “boyfriend? oh no i don’t have a boyfriend”, what should I follow up with….can I say like “really? i don’t believe someone as cute and nice like you don’t have a boyfriend yet” and ask “may i have your number? we should hang out sometimes”……do you think it is a good idea?
And here in California, we don’t really exchange business cards like Japan, as I met some hot girls who are not a business professionals, so I need to get her number straight from her, but I have not scored anything yet until now.
Please help me…..I am really desperate now…..I will update you and won’t forget your help when I scored one.
Thank you, I appreciate it man.
Your first mistake is to believe it’s possible to make a many women want to be intimate after just a few minutes of talking to them. Most women will never consider getting intimate until at least two or three dates. Perhaps the best pick up artists can pare that down to one date, but even then, it’s only going to work on a minority of women. And, again, the last thing you need to do is waste time trying to get intimate with women on a timetable they’ll almost never comply with.
Remember, as you pointed out, your goal is simply to get phone numbers. There’s no need to rush into intimacy. (If you’re looking for one-night stands, there’s nothing wrong with that in my book if you go about it honestly, but it requires a completely different approach and, almost certainly, a willingness to compromise on standards to include dealing with heavy drinking/insecurity issues.)
If you really want to meet quality women, you’ll have to let things develop at their own pace. This will allow you greater confidence, more fun along the way, and, IMHO, help ensure you don’t veer into arsehole behavior.
Rushing intimacy is the kiss of death: It makes you look desperate. The message you want to convey is: I’m attractive and I’m going to share some of that attractiveness with you now and, because I’m especially interested in you, I’m even going to allow you a second chance to enjoy me a little more by going out on a date.
If you’re thinking that you need cause a woman to have intimate feelings for you right away, the message you’re in danger of sending is: I need love. I don’t have love now, and I don’t think I’m good enough to get it soon, so I really want to make sure I get it from you.
Can’t stress it enough: Don’t rush. If you go out consistently and stay on your game, you will have numerous relationships developing simultaneously, with intimacy becoming available in one or more of them on a daily or almost-daily basis. And really, do you have time to go on more than 3 or 4 dates a week?
A good pattern is: collect numbers on Friday and Saturday nights (when the most, best women are out) and go on dates Sunday-Thursday nights. A lot of the women who think more of themselves will insist on a Friday or Saturday night date. Only grant that in the most promising circumstances. Weekends are for sowing, weekdays for reaping.
Never forget that picking up and dating are different from almost every other human activity in that trying hard doesn’t necessarily pay off. In fact, effort is often counterproductive. Seduction is, instead, the art of effortlessness.
major bristols, thanks mate, you really enlightened me and gave me a new perspective to think of. I got the point, so my mission on Friday or Saturday night is just to get her number, after that, go on dates on weekdays. I am so excited because it is going to be a long weekend here in USA since this weekend is Memorial Day weekend, I might want to try it out and will surely to keep you updated of my progress.
Pardon me if I missed something but I didn’t get the answer for this part of my question yet:
“Ok, you said I have to try to generate the conversation on my own, I tried before, and it really worked…such like at the party, I asked a girl if she likes the music or what does she think about the drink….it worked well for conversation opener, but the hardest part that I have been struggling with is to “lead” the conversation that already started into more “intimate” conversation to lure her to think that I am not a stranger to her and tap her “unconscious” mind to ignite her interest on me. Usually, I ran out of topic in the middle of conversation or I was afraid to ask follow up questions that would be considered to “personal” for her, like “what is your hobbies” or “do you have boyfriend” or “so, what are you doing on the weekend, hang out with your boyfriend?” or “am I holding you up from getting back to your boyfriend’s side?” or something like that. I think those questions are good to ask when we already become friend and know each other a bit longer, right? I can’t just asked those questions after met her just 10-15 minutes ago. Even if she positively replied “boyfriend? oh no i don’t have a boyfriend”, what should I follow up with….can I say like “really? i don’t believe someone as cute and nice like you don’t have a boyfriend yet” and ask “may i have your number? we should hang out sometimes”……do you think it is a good idea?”
I am just a bit clueless and lost on how to follow up the conversation to make her feel comfortable and give me her number naturally, because once I just asked “tell me your number” and she said her phone is broken or she used a pre-paid phone that almost run out of balance and other lame excuse to brush me off, so I really need your advice on this.
Thank you very much, ‘prreciate it!
sushikid,
I know your problem. You don’t listen.
How do I know?
Because you obviously haven’t paid attention to the answers I already gave you.
I also know that you’re one of the “Osaka Crew” guys trying to make the point that someone who gives dating advice should have some sort of canned conversation they can dispense like a pancake recipe or a diet. Either that, or you’re a customer of the Osaka Crew trying to make the same point. It’s obvious sushikid. But I don’t mind playing along. I am interested to see how far you think you can string it along and keep playing like I don’t know who you are. (your writing style and logic formation matches stuntman’s a little to closely, don’t you think?)
Here’s what you’d already understand if you had paid attention to what I wrote:
Rejection is unavoidable. Most hot women will reject you. (If they didn’t, picking up would be about as exciting as ordering the lunch special at Denny’s five days a week.)
Most hot women are already committed in one way or another. Either that, or they are extremely selective. In either case, you are left with only one choice, accept rejection as part of the game and focus on making sure you chat up ENOUGH women so that the 20 percent or even 10 percent that do say yes gives you the number of dates you’d like to be having week after week.
It’s the numbers. Just like sales. No different. The more women you approach, the more dates you will get and the more relationships you’ll experience. If you are determined to date the best looking women, who probably aren’t attracted to you on sight, it will be even more important to approach large numbers and to have a positive, creative response to rejection.
Do the math. The most attractive men often date 2, 3 or more of the most attractive women simultaneously. (If the Osaka Crew is half as successful as it claims to be, think how many women they’re keeping away from “average” guys.) At the same time, the most attractive women usually date only one guy at a time. It is a somewhat unfortunate biological fact, but a fact indeed, that men who are not in the most attractive category will have to contend with having far less than their fair share of attractive women available to them.
Not to worry. There is still plenty to go around if you are willing to work the numbers.
You seem very concerned about being sure to say the right thing. But there is never one right thing to say to all women in all typical situations. Successful pick up artists must think their feet. What you say will ALWAYS be customized to what the woman you’re talking with is saying to you.
Listening is the most important thing. You must listen with your ears and your eyes and very carefully detect the nuances of what a woman is telling you when you are chatting her up.
That is why having a canned rap doesn’t work. Everything you say needs to link directly to what she says. Spontaneity is crucial. That is the simple art of conversation. Simple to understand, though difficult to do, even impossible for some. Knowing what to say is the easy part. Listening with intensity is more difficult, but that’s where the payoff is.
Read a lot and widely. Do that, and you will always have a lot to talk about. And there is one thing that women find most interesting of all — themselves. To the extent possible, keep the conversation focused on them and you can’t go wrong.
A couple of other things: it is important to remember that by far the best way to meet quality women is by introduction through friends. If you become a trustworthy platonic friend to a hottie, there is a good chance she will introduce you to one or more of her hot friends — especially if you simply ask her to. Introductions save time and improve your success ration. All dates are pre-qualified, to some degree, at least. This is another reason not to try to rush things with canned lines and the kind of ludicrous mind games the Osaka Crew peddles. (Some of that they say is perfectly valid — the stuff that should be common sense to most men. The rest is useless and based on the moronic notion that you can trick women into liking you or that tricking women who don’t like you into sleeping with you is a rewarding lifestyle.
Major Bristol,
First off, Sushikid is not me. I honestly can’t say if he is a member of Osaka crew or not, but I don’t think so.
None of this is about tricking women or getting them into bed the night you meet them. As a matter of fact they teach you to just get a phone number and not to spend too much time with her or you will appear needy. This is about how to improve yourself to get the woman you want (no tricking involved). Women are different in that they don’t care as much about looks(as much as men do) if they are attracted to you. You claim all the hot women are taken, this is BS. Most hot women are not approached by men ,due to fear of rejection. You would not believe how many hot women are happy that a guy talks to them. Japan has a higher ratio of hot women (just my opinion) than most countries so they are a lot more open and friendly.
It is obvious to me that nothing said here will change your mind. Keep living in your world and be happy with the women(or woman) that you settle for. The rest of us open minded guys will be happy with the women we chose.
Not buying it, Stuntman. I still think you are the sushikid and part of the crew. Your comments follow the logic and style exactly. But I don’t care whether you are or not. I am happy to exchange views with anyone on this subject, whether or not they are who they say they are.
“None of this is about tricking women or getting them into bed the night you meet them.”
My point wasn’t that there’s something wrong with shooting for a hole in one, but that the entire raison d’etre of the “boot camp” and course is that you can get women by talking to them in a certain way. Maybe “tricking” is a too blunt a word, but the point stands. Why would anyone bother with the camp if they didn’t think it was going to allow them to pick up women they couldn’t get otherwise?
“This is about how to improve yourself to get the woman you want (no tricking involved). ”
Sorry, but he surest way to get women is to get rich and/or famous. A biological fact. Learn to live it with it. Beyond that, how in the world is learning to chat to women strategically “improving yourself?”
“Women are different in that they don’t care as much about looks(as much as men do) if they are attracted to you.”
True, but irrelevant. They may care less about looks, but looks are still No. 1, whether or not women will admit it. Women are much more likely to give a semi unattractive guy a shot, but he’ll be working from a disadvantage compared with the stud, every time.
“You claim all the hot women are taken.”
I see you have the same problem as sushikid. You don’t pay attention. I said most hot women are committed one way or another. Sure, quite a few are available, in one way or another. But the point is, they all have numerous options for companionship. They seldom feel truly lonely, unless they are the highly selective type. And sorry, but it is absurd to say no one approaches the most attractive women. Sit anywhere you like and observe — they are treated to a constant parade of approaches. Their whole game is fending off the dogs so they can lure the prince.
“Keep living in your world and be happy with the women(or woman) that you settle for.”
I’ve got nothing against the pick-up lifestyle, as long as you can live it honestly and successfully. Few can, really. Most guys who pick up a lot of girls are constantly cutting corners on honesty. More often than not, they get burned their fair share of times because of it. And a few get burned badly and basically ruin their lives and the lives of others. But they also have a LOT of good times on the way and do so by their own free choice, so I certainly don’t begrudge them or anything, but I know there are not many people who can live that lifestyle well.
I hope you don’t begrudge people who reject that lifestyle..
This is just plain creepy.
Does the author think that searching for the most effective way of manipulating women is at all healthy or that it could yield worthwhile relationships? If you can’t openly communicate with a women on equal terms, however promiscuous your intentions may be, your relationship is bound to fail.
The whole idea of “leading” discussed in this article is super immature and misogynistic to the point of being laughable. The main points of this article are overconfident, simplistic and undeveloped. These facts aside, it doesn’t help that he’s trying to convince us of a superior method of bedding hot women of a specific race he has discovered. The author’s ridiculous ‘mystical zone of innate understanding’ must be the spectacularly delusional realm of fantasy he was residing in when he wrote this piece.
This site/community needs to improve it’s vetting process if they think content like this worth posting. Since when haas posting predatory “dating” advice been kosher? Maybe you can follow this piece up with advice on sex tourism in Asia.
I realize that this is a fairly old article but think its worth commenting, regardless.
Normally I regard this blog and its content to possess at least a basic level of moral fiber, considering its loose association with the Monbukagakusho community. I hope you’re more discerning in the future.
Careful, Rob, your attitude shows some disregard for women as well, a mindset you’d refer to as “misogyny.”
There is no older, more destructive myth about women than the one that says they’re too stupid or too emotional to act in their own best interests when confronted with a man who wants to bed them. And, indeed, that’s what you seem to be saying when you assert that these guys are “manipulating” women into dating them.
Sure, it’s inevitable that some women who make bad dating judgments and for every single one of them, there’s at least one man who does the same. But most women, and most men, get what they’re looking for, and, even, what they deserve, in the dating game.
If you strip it down, all the arrested development cases at “pickupasia.com” are trying to sell is the idea that you have to give women what they want, and what they want is a strong man. And while the specific approach and tone of the “pick up” frauds above is unrefined, undignified and, well, a little stupid, it is indeed based on an important reality, which is that women tend to like strong men, even though the contemporary social code has eliminated the more traditional ways men might demonstrate strength to women they meet in public.
Again, I certainly agree that the pick up “artistes” are risible frauds, but I find nothing anti-woman or “misogynist” about their approach and I find their comments very interesting in that they do seem to accurately reflect the mindset of sexually hyper-aggressive adolescents.
In essence, improving your dating and relationship situation is simple and there are only two things you need to do. Either:
1) Talk to more women
2) Improve the quality of each interaction
A lot of what Major Bristol says is right on. While it’s simple, it’s not always easy. Teaching this stuff is about finding way to make it easy to do.
The funniest stand up comedians don’t just show up on stage planning to be funny. They write and re-write their material and then they practice delivering it over and over until they get the delivery just right.
You can’t be successful at the highest levels of anything without that process.
Some guys need to start by using memorized lines; other guys have no problem taping into their creative ability when they are in front of girls but have problems elsewhere, like asking for the phone number, or following up to set up a date.
Major Bristol,
I’m in Tokyo until Tuesday or so. If you’re still in Tokyo, let’s get together for a coffee or something. You can contact me at: RedpoleQ (at) PickUp Asia (dot) com
lol. What an exchange.
I’m a female, and read Neil Strauss: The Game and this article (and comments!:) with interest. And the newer articles up above, lol.
I am really surprised at how clueless some guys (and girls) can be… (iRL or on other forums…) Even some really good-looking guys/girls (with low self-esteem or such).
So I’m not against trying to teach those guys (and girls) to date successfully… I agree the real challenge is in trying to keep and maintain honesty and integrity, and in learning how to have a relationship, not just a one night or a few weeks (or months) of fun…
I hope any ‘bootcamp’ or any courses teach guys what to look for in a woman too, and how to get to know each other, so there’s some compatibility, not just random ‘hotness’…
Basically it’s important that girls and guys learn to communicate effectively, and to find people who are looking for what they are…
Some of the ‘techniques’ from books or such do work iRL, and I sometimes looked back in surprise: was this guy using techniques or was he just ‘a natural’? lol
Sometimes misunderstandings can occur too… (if people use techniques without thinking, or while just trying to be friendly/’practising’ or such… hearts can be broken, etc.)
So these techniques can be misused and well, in a way it’s maybe good to know them so you can at least recognize them…? And then decide whether to use any of the knowledge or not.. Though again, many people pick these things up naturally too..
And people can ‘despise’ others if they feel they only got ‘tricked’ into this… (Strauss wrote about that too…) I think it’s important that people see each other as people, not just ‘another dating notch’ or something like that.
Some people who had very ‘wild lives’ became very bitter about it and lived their later life in seclusion or such.. And we know what happened to some rock stars and such..
I guess there needs to be some sort of balance.. in one’s life and then dating goes easier too.. If you’re doing things you enjoy doing and live a life you like living, your enthusiasm and joi de vivre are going to charm a lot of people!! 🙂