With maid cafes where pretty young girls that ooze submissiveness to their “masters”, and “shuccho health” (出張ヘルス, basically, dial-a-prostitute) and soap-lands (sensual bathing houses with soapy special service) to vending machines for porn, and specialty shops with used high school girl underwear; Japan, at least on the surface appears one of the most sexually proactive nations in the world. Japanese men are as perverted (if not more perverted) than those in other countries, and as for the ladies, on top of being naturally feminine (with petite sexy bodies, skin that doesn’t seem to change complexion from childhood, pretty faces and silky black hair), the women of Japan have no misconceptions about what style – clothes, perfume and make up – makes a man stop in his tracks, and rouse that tingle in his loins.
When interacting with others, sex and everything surrounding it is fair game for a topic of conversation in Japan and, it is certainly not frowned upon by religious groups or society at large as it is in the USA and other countries. When it comes to secreting sexual hormones and sexuality in general, almost nothing is taboo in Japan – until that is, the day one gets married, or so it seems. Indeed in stark sexual contrast, Japan may be suffering from a sexual drought, where being totally open about sex and being sexy in general, doesn’t seem to be converted into the ins-and-outs of baby making when it comes to married couples.
Shown in these statistics, a recent survey by Japan’s health ministry found that as many as one-third of all marriages in Japan are sexless. The problem is now so widespread that the government fears it is a major contributor to the dramatic plunge in Japan’s birthrate (now only 1.28 births per woman). This sexless phenomenon is not only found in those relationships that are plunging down the drain toward divorce, but to the contrary, more and more couples that consider themselves healthily married (and have no intention of separating), have not had sex with each other in the last month or more (the common definition of “sexless” in Japan), with many saying that they have not had sex together in the last 6 months to one year.
According to the most recent survey of 41 nations last October, the average Japanese has intercourse 45 (and according to Bayer Pharmaceuticals as low as 17) times a year, compared with the global average of 103. Japan is repeatedly at the bottom of the list. Last year it trailed Singapore, which was 28 shags a year higher!
The term “sexless”, was first used in Japan in the early 1990s, but now is instantly recognizable to the Japanese as a universally understood concept, and widely discussed in the media. There are books on the subject and thousands websites and heartbreaking blogs discussing sexless Japan, while letters on the subject fill agony columns on “dear doctor”-type sites.
One in five sexless couples say they view sex simply as a nuisance. A small number cite the lack of a private space, because children or elderly parents often sleep just the other side of a paper-thin door, leading many married couples to even sleep in separate rooms. Mitsui Home announced recently in an Asahi Newspaper article, that in 30% of the new houses they build, the couples are asking for 2 “master” bedrooms. This is a shocking statistic, which shows that sexless couples want to continue living their lives together – separately! “We are sort of room-mates rather than a married couple”, one 31-year-old man, who had not had sex with his wife for two years, told the Asahi Shinbun.
There are many other theories about why the Japanese become less inclined to raunchy evenings in the sack together, but likely it is a mixture of some of these:
- Stress of work/life in Japan (maybe the taihen cloud?)
- Lack of understanding, and usage of contraception, especially “the pill” (who wants to use condoms with their wife!?), making sex with your wife viable only when you want to have a baby
- Abundance of 不倫 (furin, or extra-marital) relationships
- More and more Japanese women choosing career over family
- A tendency among Japanese married couples to feel an aversion to sex with their spouse, not because they dislike one another, but rather because they feel that they have more of a sister-brother relationship; the sanctity of which would be destroyed with a repulsive incest-like feeling, by what westerners would consider normal conjugal relations
The last point is an interesting one, as in the past, it has been traditionally Japanese women who complained that they couldn’t see their hubby “as a member of the opposite sex.” But in the last few years, there’s been an exponential increase in men who can’t view their wives as sexual partners either. While it is true that many Japanese married couples seem to be sexless in nature, they key thing to remember is that this certainly does not mean that they lack the desire for sexual fulfillment. While marriage and children may bring on a sex drought in the home, Japanese people who want (and in the case of most men, need) sex do not simply abstain from sex because they cannot see the feminine qualities in their own wife, or the sexual attraction of their hard working husband.
Japanese men love their companies; they live for work, and many don’t even think it is a problem if they don’t have sex with their wives. They have pornography and the sex industry (soap lands, cabaret bars, and dial-a-girl services, and trips to Taiwan) to take care of their needs, but their wives have nowhere to go. They just suffer in silence.. or do they? The divorce rate in Japan has nearly doubled in the past 10 years, with more women blaming their sexually inactive, as opposed to sexually errant, husbands for break-ups. Though they may not be seeking sexual pleasure from their better halves, married Japanese women are seeking intimacy from other sources (many even claim to have a sex addiction), leading double lives – being the good mother, while at the same time seeking out “Leroy” the lover, who is always lurking, and ready to fulfill her every desire.
Japan is full of temptation, and it doesn’t matter whether you are a housewife or salary-man, there is plenty of raunchy action waiting out there – if that is what you desire. Furin sites to find a (extra marital) “sex friend” partner are just as rampant in Japan as in other countries, however they are much more widely used by women in Japan to solve their sexless quandaries. For the more conservative ladies, sites like mixi.jp – which are neutrally classed as “social networking” spaces – are abound with profiles (men and women) looking for partners to secretly spruce up their sexless, but otherwise happily married lives.
Many Japanese marriages may be sexless, but this is only a statistic about the state of sex within marriage itself. In fact, there may be a good reason for the sexless condition of marriages here – Are the Japanese getting enough of the good stuff outside their marriages to keep them happy? I certainly think so.
Japanese people will never be sexless as individuals; therefore Japan is not sexless, so don’t let mere statistics confuse the situation!
(If you are married in Japan, or married to a Japanese, let us know what you think of “Sexless Japan” by leaving a comment below!)
I also wonder if j ladies marry non Asian foreigners just for producing cute off spring. I mean I’ve seen some fairly unattractive j ladies who I’m sure married a non Asian gaijin just so they can have kids who don’t look like them… This may be the cause of having an unhappy marriage afterwards? As many of you referred to j wifes as not being able to be a mother and wife at the same time. Their goal is just to be a mother of cute babies? This definitely doesn’t apply to all but may be relevant for many…
@curious
You may not be far off the mark there
Japanese people have a low sex drive period. Unlike what has been said before, the abundance of fetish porn etc.actually proves it! Think about it, people with a low sex drive need all sorts of extra stimulation visual or otherwise to help amplify flagging desire. The ultra-femininity associated Japanese is directly related to lower testosterone.
I know, I am married to someone Japanese and haven’t had sex for 4 years! We’ve spoken about this and none of her friends is particularly sexual either. I made a mistake. Do not marry a Japanese woman unless you are willing to give up on sex.Even when we had it it was always perfunctory. We still cuddle etc. but it isn’t enough for me. I am miserable but at 50 with only passable looks, low middle income all my “wealth” tied up in a co-op worth less now than when we bought it, what can I do? Dying slowly…
@Curious
My ex J-wife married me because she didn’t want the typical J-Hubby experience.
She is thrilled to have gorgeous daughters, and after the American Divorce, she kept the kids and I will pay for them until they turn 21.
@Larry
My advice to you is this. You have three options.
Option 1(FIGHT): DEMAND what you want. You have nothing to lose putting up a fight and kicking up some dust. What is the worst she will do? NOT have sex with you? You are already there. She will put up a fight, since she likes the status quo…. no sex, TV, rice, you do all the work. Make your stand.
Option 2(FLIGHT): Get out. You are 50. (I’m 47). You’ve got some good years left, make the best of it. Get to a gym, get in shape, live your life, travel. You only go around this world ONCE. Don’t waste your life with a boat anchor J-wife around your neck. Yeah, you’ll lose some money, so you won’t be the richest guy in the graveyard. Big deal.
Option 3(Do nothing): Give up. Wait for death. Play video games (I played Civ 3 & 4 for hours on end).
Nice to see the thread as active as ever… And some familiar names: Kayumochi, Heinrich…
I have been away from here for a while. Reason: I was having an affair with yet ANOTHER Japanese woman while still being married to my current Japanese wife.
The affair is over. Reason: I realised that whether you`re married to them or just having a fling with them at the end of the day they are still Japanese women. This last fling I was put through the ringer by a gf and didn`t have the nouse to walk away (OK, I am 47 and she was 27…an age thing maybe…like, this is as good as it gets…WRONG!!)
Listen. Heinrich is right.(check out his numerous previous posts) Just give up on the Japanese idea and get down with another nationality. Seriously… run for the hills my friends. We are all just waiting for disaster to strike if we hang out with these women a moment longer.
@Dd I hear what you`re saying in post#938 though. Thank you for that.
Huge thread. Huge topic. Lots of stereotyping.
But……..let me be another foreign woman married to a Japanese man… to add my 2 yen. The sexless issue…was an issue (around engagement, damn I should have known better and ended it then), is an issue…and will always be an issue. Our daughter was conceived out of a fight about the issue.
Intimacy and connection is there. Attention that is craved…..is not, at all. I am one to look around, but the temptation has been there. Might I add, though, even if I wanted, it would not be easy. For foreign men and Japanese men, there are options (Roppongi, soaplands, prostitutes, delivery health, etc)…but what about foreign women in Japan…what do they do?
Life is happy. But bittersweet. When the rest of the marriage is functioning…it’s hard to complain. And after having a child…….well……yeah, that complicated things, sure enough.
Still young…and very genki………so still hopeful. That’s all I have to say!
Oops, you probably figured it out already but I mean to write “I am not one to look around”
I think there is a lot of truth to this…
Muhammad Ali Tells The Truth – 1971
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTeudEWOL4w&feature=share
Japanese I have to say have a complex which has been addressed by the man himself ishihara shintaro. Hence marry outside to elevate their status and outward appearance….
@ Lily
“For foreign men and Japanese men, there are options (Roppongi, soaplands, prostitutes, delivery health, etc)…but what about foreign women in Japan…what do they do?”
Well, given women don’t pay for sex, why don’t you try the adult friend site? And if you are happy to pay for sex, there must be some establishments catering to a women clientele in Japan…
“Might I add, though, even if I wanted, it would not be easy. For foreign men and Japanese men, there are options (Roppongi, soaplands, prostitutes, delivery health, etc)…but what about foreign women in Japan…what do they do?”
Lily:
I want to be with someone in a intimate affectionate way. Sex that one has to pay for is just mechanical and I can do that myself. One can not pay for affection so for foreign men in Japan the option is not prostitution. If one stays in a marriage with a Japanese spouse maybe the only option is to have an affair. I am struggling with this myself at this time. The cost of having a lover on the side can be high. Is it worth it? I just do not know.
My wife will never become an affectionate. I have come to the conclusion that I have two options if I want to be intimate with a woman I will either have to get a divorce my wife and then I can be free to be with other women, or I can have an affair. I see no other option. I am now having an affair with a young women. This also is not all that fulfilling, since I can not be open in public with my girl friend. Therefore: the intimacy is somewhat lacking.
What is a person to do? Grin an bear it maybe the way to go. I just do not know.
Timmy
Timmy (and others reading along)
Sorry to hear about the situation…but agreed about those two options. (by the way, do you have kids? if you do……..please consider things over again a bit because until the Hague treaty is signed, you are at risk and might not see your kids again much if things get really nasty!) After exhausting all other legit options and getting even laughed at (cosplay)……..I came to the conclusion that it’s not really going to get any steamier. A cultural difference…oceans apart. Open marriage is not really accepted here and swinging, nooo….. Most Japanese women I know are not at all into that. Strange…many young Japanese women are spicy and sexy, but after marriage and kids, it’s like they turn into asexual creatures. Don’t know but I still like being hot…and dress it. Cleavage, short skirts…yeah, hell ya, I am young and going to show it while I have still got it.
Well………the cost is high. And risk of betrayal. And what I worry – girlfriends here are possessive and pretty nuts. They will stalk after a relationship is long gone and dead. Or purposely leave evidence around for your wife to find in order to sabotage your marriage. It is a risk that you take. Women are a lot more conniving than men, in that way, if you ask me. Trust me, I know enough women here to know that….women are one another’s enemies.
Not the best option but more advisable is affair with someone who has the same to lose as you. Perhaps another foreigner married to a Japanese who can sympathize? I would offer, but I am still trying my best and hanging in there. In that case, at least they are trying to keep things discreet and don’t let things get out of hand. Problem w/affairs is when one or the other party has stronger feelings and it becomes more than just a fling. Then things can get really ugly. Most young Japanese women these days……..are not really ones to tolerate infidelity. If they have the money or a hometown to escape to, they will.
Grin and bear. Perhaps. How about picking up some more interests in your spare time? For men, soba and udon making is very energy consuming. I myself have gotten very physically involved in sports and that seems to take some energy and desire out of me…draining stuff. And, appreciate the other aspects of the relationship that are good and functioning.
Also……..forgot to mention. Some Japanese women really like tidy, fit men…and when their husband gets all out of shape, they get so disgusted by it. So, the good thing about this sexless, lack of sex marriage is…..that I have never looked better. At least I know it is not a matter of my body not looking good enough! It really motivated me to stay fit, get my abs into toned shape, and stay attractive. (at first I went overboard and was insecure about my looks… but now, I see men staring all the time, so I am pretty sure it’s just my husband being too used to seeing me scantily clad in skimpy wear. I do it to tease him too…well if you are not looking, the rest of the street is so…I find some satisfaction in that)
And get your PR. No one has mentioned it(I don’t think…there are TONS of comments and I tried to read/skim most, minus the flaming and stupid comments) but it is a good idea to get permanent residency asap. So if all hell breaks out, at least you can stay legally in the country w/out depending on a spouse visa that will become invalid upon separation.
Best and good luck.
For foreign women in Japan married to a Japanese man who has turned cold.
It is not you – it is them and their culture! Don’t waste your time wondering about your own looks, this and that…..it is a waste of your time.
It is a huge blow to one’s self-confidence, feeling like one is not desired. And I spent many a crying nights wondering what was wrong with me, what I lacked or what part of my body needed to be “fixed” before he’d change.
Waiting to be whisked away into the bedroom one day. Still waiting, by the way. I am always the one to initiate. ALWAYS. This was one of the most depressing points……….as I had to fend off most men in my university days…..all too eager to get into my pants. Total change from that, total change! Hard change to accept and deal with!!!!
People don’t change and if you are expecting change, you might as well take out the divorce papers NOW. Talking it out will only lead to fighting and frustration on both sides.
Anyway, my friend was all depressed and had body-image issues due to the sexless issue. It really takes a toll on one, mentally! But, just do things to be more self-confident, wear things that make you feel good and sexy. Show some extra skin and make some old oji-chan’s day. (trust me, I got many a smile from super old Japanese men…but I was glad to be of service, be their pin-up gal for the day or bend down to give them a peek of my red panties, heck….poor guys probably getting none at home, so…just a peek won’t hurt)
That and buy a few adult toys. Just do it. They’ll last longer than any man anyway!
And some Japanese female commenter said that foreign men are too sexed up, horny and demanding sex. Umm……well, compared to Japanese standards, maybe yes. But again, a cultural difference! Back home, regular sex is by definition part of a healthy relationship! And I am a foreign woman and not a slut at all but I have sexual desires and needs. So please don’t judge these men on this forum. Many are just desperate and trying ANYTHING and everything to get the physical aspect back, sizzling chemistry working again. Of course they are going to try anything, even stupid things. Again, don’t judge until you have been there, in that situation!
Okay, I think I have said enough for now. I think I’ve added my 8yen already (laughing).
Lily:
I am living in the USA with my Japanese wife. The kids are grown and out of house. We have been married almost 30 years so to me divorce would be a little difficult. We share many things both material and emotional. In addition I know it would be a step backward financially if I did divorced my wife. We do feel comfortable around each other. She is to me like an old shirt that I love and feel comfortable wearing.
I started working a little over a year ago and many people have given me complements on my body. One problem with working out is that I find it makes one crave sex even the more. I think it must increase the testosterone levels.
Timmy
@timmy
I guess you are At the place where I am thinking to myself I will surely leave my wife (30 yrs vs 11 yrs marriage). I’m surely going to throw the old shirt away once the kids grow old and leave the house. If u want to be free and happy with your new gf why don’t u throw away the old t-shirt? It can’t be that comfortable anymore, can it?
This bear and grin solution sure is painful!! As many of you has opted for the get-a-mistress-solution, I may start looking into that… Ive been working out a lot lately and yes the testosterone level is rising!!
@curious: thanks for the idea but that is not at all appealing for me and i am trying my best to gaman, and not to resort to/think of such options. but thanks for the idea, regardless.
@timmy: 30 years is a lot of time, all right. to throw it all away just like that…….would be such a waste, indeed. i assume you are not too old but…a young girl may be around to play but she’ll leave you to take care of yourself in old age?!
my husband has so many qualities no other man has. so to toss him out because of the lack of sex, would be a bit extreme. though not into sex, he is warm, gives massages and is affectionate. so, well, not all that i wanted, but i will take it. he is bad at giving me compliments but others do give me compliments, so i guess i should be happy enough with that.
each man/woman we find…will have some sort of trade-off personality trait. and no one is perfect. i prefer this “personality flaw…culture clash” over many others (laziness, rudeness, lack of responsibility) and…i can tolerate lack of sex…but i cannot tolerate cheating myself at all……. (which is why i am pretty adamant about not doing it myself) ….a cheater would be automatically out.
it’s important to remember the “in good times and bad” vow that we made to each other. easy to forget though. best not to focus on the issue because the more you do, the more you are going to magnify it. and anger, resentment will build up, show, and come exploding out one day. ahhh, easy to say……hard to do!
women have ebbing hormones…up and down and change a great deal with age. men, too, but to a less extreme extent, it seems. some women around 50 lose interest in sex or are dealing with menopause, so sex is the last thing on their mind.
might i add. perhaps people’s wives want to “make love” and not “have sex” and feel that it has become more the latter than former. many women need a lot of warming up and romance, slow crescendo, until many men who are good to go. but i am sure most of you have tried your best already, as it is not what you are/are not doing……just a matter of different sex drives.
one option timmy, you did not mention…is pulling our your porn magazines and videos. yes, a bit sad to resort to that but it is an option for those who don’t want to go down that complicated cheating road. and if i were a man, i would definitely buy one of those devices for masturbation i have heard so much about …umm, called Tenga. another, named Groomin is also set to be sold to the public, soon…or something.
for some foreign women – you have to realize that japanese men are being heavily influenced by media and rely solely on porn these days until they get a serious girlfriend. it affects their sex life and gives them unrealistic ideas about having sex. and non-existent foreplay in the case of lots of japanese adult videos. and it affects performance too… ED and more… not being able to hold for a long time. the first year was a frustrating year, just keeping things “up”… men being too used to their own touch – this causes a flurry of problems… and some men, in the end, prefer masturbation over the real thing – easy, no worries (having a child), fast (no wasting time in foreplay), and done exactly how they want it done.
accepting the difference in sex needs/drives is the hardest part of all. this cultural difference is a killer one. and one that is hardly talked about, too. often sufferers suffer in silence and are incredibly embarrassed to talk about it.
very interesting topics, everyone. talking it out with others in the same boat helps, a lot.
Wow where do u buy that tenga and groomin? Never thought of that until now. Thx lily! Can’t get it delivers to home, don’t want to get busted and not sure I can get at store, too embarrassing… Anyone here give it a try?
It’s extraordinary to see how this thread has gone on for 5 years with more and more people logging in to tell remarkably similar stories.
I’m here to let all you heterosexuals know that sadly, this phenomenon even extends to the gay world in Japan. Yesterday I told my partner of 15 years that I wanted out, mainly because I couldn’t face the thought of another 40 or 50 years of celibacy.
My story is boringly similar to everyone else’s, despite the sexual orientation. I am a white western gay man and I met my partner, a Japanese man, in 1997. For 18 months we had amazing sex, mind-blowing, exciting, fireworks, all the rest of it, and then it slowly began to fade. At first I wasn’t too concerned. I had no illusions that we would be going at it every day for our entire lives together, so when every day became twice a week and even once a week I wasn’t worried at all. I do remember once confiding in a western female friend of mine that we had dropped down to once every two weeks and being surprised at her response: that she would consider her relationship with her Peruvian boyfriend to be in serious trouble if sex fell to that frequency. Nowadays of course once every two weeks seems like some crazy beautiful porn dream to me!
Once we’d slipped to once a month was when the problems really started. We settled into a pattern of me begging, cajoling, pestering, persuading, moaning, joking, getting angry, utterly debasing myself, anything that I thought might enable us to have sex. I was rebuffed probably nine times out of ten, maybe more. I guess I don’t need to point out what damage that does to the old ego. It didn’t help that when we finally did get going the sex was almost always cold and unreciprocating. Many times I would be going to work on him while he played with his phone or games machine. Ridiculous to even think of it. How I humiliated myself.
This went on for about ten years, and finally, from about two or three years ago, I stopped asking and stopped caring. Since then we’ve been sexual maybe less than ten times. And just once so far this year.
The upshot is I was left with a roving eye and a mild addiction to porn. And about a month ago I met someone else. Yes, another Japanese guy, but I figure at least I’m going into it with my eyes open this time.
My partner took my announcement very badly, and since there is still love and some affection between us I’m torn between feeling huge relief and a sense of freedom and feeling like the biggest bastard to walk the earth. Right now he has locked himself in his room of the 120 square meter apartment we live in, to which he has never contributed a single yen in rent (!), and refuses to talk. I know I’m in for a really shitty couple of months, but it has to be better than 40 years of unhappiness.
I feel for you guys with kids. How incredibly torn you must feel. Fortunately I just have a dog to worry about. I was half-hoping he would be quite pragmatic about the break-up, that he would agree that we had become nothing more than brothers and it was time to move on, but I guess if sexless long term relationships are normal for Japanese people, male or female, straight or gay, they are not going to be able to take it well when we foreigners make that the reason we want to leave.
I still love Japan very much. I’m deeply invested in the country and the language, but my advice to any young’uns out there would be to never dismiss the power of cultural differences.
Sorry for the late reply guys.
The Tenga is avail in larger sizes and in Japan or the States.
One time use only, so don’t buy it thinking it can be used over and over. (you can’t) But cheaper than a hooker or a lover. And a heck of a lot safer! (don’t want that incurable gonorrhea or whatever that is going around, I hear) And keep your marriage intact.
If your wife finds it, just say “do you prefer I go out to get my thrills?” and that should shut her up immediately…..or if you wanna be slightly nicer, you can say “having an affair is not an option, so I resorted to this” Perhaps some of you might WANT your wives to find this on accident, ha ha!
Anyway, hopefully the other aspects of your marriages/relationships are going well. If not, then, well, getting caught having an affair and breaking up/divorcing might be a good thing after all!
TENGA U.S.TENGA ディープスロート・カップ
http://www.amazon.com/Tenga-Soft-Tube-Throat-Ultra/dp/B000N8YOI8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1341718496&sr=8-1&keywords=tenga
http://www.amazon.co.jp/TENGA-U-S-TENGA-%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%83%BC%E3%83%97%E3%82%B9%E3%83%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%83%88%E3%83%BB%E3%82%AB%E3%83%83%E3%83%97-DEEP-THROAT/dp/B000N8YOI8/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1341718457&sr=8-5
Lily:
I think most of us would find the Tenga kind of expensive being that it is disposable. For a cheaper date that is not high maintenance, and will not fill up the landfill a banana peal will be a better way to go. See the link below.
http://www.yourdailymedia.com/video/watch/4910/
A banana also contains an enzyme, which aids in the production of sex hormones. The only problem is that if you have a Japanese wife an increase in sex hormones only makes one desire more bananas. The link below also gives example of foods that will make one more randy. I know I have failed in getting my old lady to change up her Japanese diet to make her have a desire for my pink banana.
http://suite101.com/article/aphrodisiac-foods-for-love-and-better-sex-life-a197233
If one is married to a Japanese spouse the skill level of masturbation goes to the black belt master level. It is one skill that I just wish I sucked at because I hardly ever did it.
Timmy
I keep checking back to the comments of this article thinking I’ll see some glimmer of hope. That somebody out there is happy in a Japanese relationship / marriage. So far… nothing. I have a weird mixture of disappointment that I shouldn’t pursue it and, at the same time, relief that I never got into one.
You’re better off avoiding it. Marriage has never been a particularly good deal for men, and it’s getting worse every year. Relationships are fine, depending on the type of person you become close to, but sign the marriage certificate and get the government involved and it’s all downhill from there.
Does any one know of any support groups for foreign guys married to sexless AND lazy J-wifes?? I read in the thread that some of you have sexless marriages but wives still take care of the house and kids really well… you guys are lucky, atleast the mrs manages the household and ensures the kids are well fed!! I’m completely fucked!
@Kirk
Just go for it and don’t let anyone else’s experience determine your own.
Kirk:
Do listen to us because we have experience.
Life will be filled with much more pleasure for you if you take the wise advise of people that have life experience.
We all have been down that sexless road because we married a Japanese women. It sucks big time. I would not wish it on any healthy young man.
Timmy
@Kirk,
I live my life by a set of rules which I codified on this webpage.
http://www.iheinrich.com/blog/?page_id=891
I draw your attention to Rule #4 and Rule #9.
Kayumochi says, “Just go for it and don’t let anyone else’s experience determine your own.”
I disagree.
Rule #9: Learning from your mistakes is important. Learning FROM OTHER PEOPLE’S mistakes is smarter.
Be smarter.
No matter who you marry, you will have a certain set of issues, problems.
Despite this issue, in the end, when I think long and hard (haha…forgive the pun?) …..I don’t regret my ultimate decision of marrying. The rest of my life is very fulfilling and he is very loving. So while it is hard to get used to the different sex drive…I do realize that most women would kill to be in the same position. With another man I’d have just a whole set of different, perhaps even more complex problems!!!! To even think of it makes me tired.
And well while reading up on the topic, I realized a good portion of marriages in America are, too, sexless. Not as much as here in Japan but…still….. so don’t just assume…… So if you have found the right person…and you think she won’t change, go for it. It is best to talk about these sexual needs before marriage. After you tie the knot, it is a bit too late. Tell her that if you feel like your sexual needs are not being met, it is grounds for separation……and this is a very cultural thing. Better to warn upfront rather than suddenly leave her or have an affair, right?
The best Japanese wives/women I have met…..are those who are kind and not selfish. The kind who WILL stay at your house until they have washed the last dish, the kind who WILL work their butt off for the event you planned together, the one who will be there if your child needs to be watched at the last minute.
The happiest men I have met are those married not to emotional rollercoasters. Women who are generous and do think about bringing him home dessert when she has had a nice lunch out w/the ladies. The little things you should start observing now while dating.
Is she a high-maintenance girl who just wants a free meal ticket for the rest of her life? Or is she going to be your partner and support you even when things get harder in this near-recession-like economy around the world?
One thing is for sure. Don’t have children UNTIL YOU ARE SURE. And don’t share assets, buy a house, until YOU ARE SURE and after you have had kids and seen if she is going to change on you.
Some women figure – they have got a house and kids…….and you cannot leave now. This is true in Japan and all around the world. Beware. Like someone said – dating is so much easier. But even said, I don’t want to return to the dating scene anytime soon…too complex and dramatic.
@lily
Well said… Are you a counsellor by any chance? 🙂 wish I had spoken to you over ten years ago…
Im starting to question the instition of marriage at my tender age of 40.
God what an out-dated and over done conversation that would be.
I think any problem that any of us have shared is the result of trying to own someone and trying to bend our own wills to let someone own us. She’s my wife. He’s my husband. He /she’s my partner.
I’m in a relationship with a new woman. Or I’m having an affair.
Am I kidding myself with the notion that I’ll be able to continue not owning someone and continue not being owned. Maybe. I know the new lady wants to marry me. I’m gonna break it to her best I can that it’s now not on my long term plan. I don’t think that’ll work for her. Who knows. She’s amazing.
Sometimes I wonder whether the love will fade with the new girl too. Maybe especially the chances are high with me rejecting marriage.
Basically all women and men are good. In fact on the grand scheme of things bad is a part of good in that all emotions lead to happiness and love.
So if you know your current feelings you now have the key to get to a new and more empowering emotion.
Suicidal -> depressed -> lonely -> disappointed -> hateful -> vengeful -> spiteful -> in rage -> angry -> betrayed -> frustrated-> complacent -> satisfied -> sharing. -> caring -> contributing -> healing -> empowered -> empowering -> open -> free -> powerful -> guiding -> loving -> confident -> joyous -> sexual -> physical -> spiritual -> in love -> in love with everything -> happy -> connected ->aligned.
All you have to do is keep going for one emotion better than the one your getting.
Anger is a really powerful and positive emotion.
By the way these ideas aren’t my originals.
If you check the list above its a stack way better than depressed or even disappointed. Disappointed is so disempowering that it leads to inaction.
So getting a little angry can be a good thing for you. As long as it doesn’t lead to revenge.
Get angry at your terrible situation. Take it out on a cushion or something.
By the way I wrote the above list from the secrets book. Except I totally forgot to put in fear. I’ve probably rearranged the order of the emotions in trying to remember them too. It’s an idea which might guide you to a happier emotion.
All you have to do is keep going for one emotion better than the one your getting.
Anger is a really powerful and positive emotion.
By the way these ideas aren’t my originals.
If you check the list above its a stack way better than depressed or even disappointed. Disappointed is so disempowering that it leads to inaction.
So getting a little angry can be a good thing for you. As long as it doesn’t lead to revenge.
Get angry at your terrible situation. Take it out on a cushion or something.
By the way I wrote the above list from the secrets book. Except I totally forgot to put in fear. I’ve probably rearranged the order of the emotions in trying to remember them too. It’s an idea which might guide you to a happier emotion.
If you were going to insert the emotion ‘fear’ where would you put it?
It’s a big one. How did I forget it.
What about ‘rejection’ where would you put that?
@lily
Um. Japanese women. Um. Do pay for sex.
I enjoyed reading the great 70 posts after my last visit and the fact this thread is active since ever…
@dds post 982:
Let me add this movie:
http://watchdocumentary.com/watch/the-great-happiness-space-tale-of-an-osaka-love-thief-video_a7339fd5c.html
@kirk
I read thoroughly the whole thread last year.
Well yeah, conclusion: dating Japanese girls is okay, but DON’T marry them… (you can do it if you have lost your friend downstairs in an accident, because you’re not supposed to use it anymore).
Sexless marriages of course are phenomena everywhere, but in Japan it is somehow expected to become that just due to fact that when you are married you should somehow stop it. Or does anyone know another country where women start to wear completely different clothes just a couple of weeks after marriage? Maybe it happens after years of having been married, but not literally from one day to another.
But you maybe have a choice if you face all these things before you marry. Then, maybe it can work somehow.
But I would never take this risk again as it takes too much time anyway.
Japanese girls have to marry to secure their future and to fit the strong social demands, love is not the reason #1.
My situation so far:
Quite good, my wife really kept up to meet some of my points.
I’m trying to get things to work like it used to be before we married… And this seems to work for the moment.
yep i got a sexless horror situation ill really hanging here
Interesting thread, I’ve been following it for quite a while now. To me it seems that sexless marriages and their resulting problems are universal in many countries of the world, but in Japan the situation is surely one of the worst…
There is a saying in Japan that goes as follows: “there’s no need to feed the fish once it is caught….”
This says it all…
@samuel welsh, just let me summarize what I’ve done
Stop wearing your wedding ring, get in shape and move on and get to know some chicks!
After a while of meeting girls, if you want, start to stand your points and explain them to your wife. She will do like if she does not understand anything blabla. (Typical JP style)
But continue your way, stay away overnight, go to Thailand, Indonesia, and Brazil… (that was the best!)
Just make her very clear that you leave, not by saying, but by acting.
I did it and it was one of the best decisions I’ve ever taken. After countless dates, two girlfriends (who left when I made clear that I’m not down for any commitment) couple of fb, or just ONS (this is a treadmill on its own too) it feels much better now and at some point I was really ready to leave the marriage.
But things changed, she wants to win me back… and we’re having a good time now.
I’ve no idea about your exact situation, your morals, your way of living or if you have kids or not.
But why not giving it a try…
“There is a saying in Japan that goes as follows: “there’s no need to feed the fish once it is caught….” This says it all”
True, I came across this too, “tsuita sakana ni esa o yaranai” or something like that.
But if you don’t feed your fish, someone else will do it or it will go (someone already posted this here I think)
After reading this thread for some time now, I’ve come to the conclusion that the root cause of all these issues boils down to the parents of your partners and transcends race/cultures. The only reason it’s more common in Japan is probably something to do with the post war economic development (who knows). I’m sure it’s been said before in previous comments, but a wise guy told me when I was single that when/if you choose to marry, you MUST observe your partner’s parents in the house. I wish I’d listen to him more and more these days. My wife’s parents have a crappy relationship and they sleep in separate beds. This was my sign back then to bail!! So naive to think you can change someone and things will work out!!
I know this foreign guy who say they sleep in the same bed with their wife and the kids sleep in separate rooms, etc. I’m convinced his wife’s parents did the same, healthy relationship, etc etc. All the guys who are suffering from sexless wives, I bet your wives’ parents had the same pathetic situation.. agree?
I did something our of character today. I decided to believe in my own sexual virility. I went to then men’s room at a local cafe and spashed the tap water on my face. I told myself that it was a powerful odorless aphrodisiac.
I then proceeded to go the rounds at 5 different cafes. I say down next to the hottest woman there and got each of them to punch in their phone numbers into my phone.
Hay. I called them while I was there to check the reality of the numbers. They all worked fine. So next we made a next time to meet.
Tell ya. If my wife wants out at any time I’m thumbs up
Our= out
Then = the
Say= sat
But you knew that
To go back to some of the first posts. The mother-in-law suggesting you DON’T go to 風俗… No, sorry, clearly you misunderstood the Japanese. Please allow me this opportunity to educate you.
In a Japanese relationship there is traditionally a ‘Love’ versus ‘companionship/status’ duality in play. These two diametrically opposed worlds are best described by any of the following social or cultural constructs: 本音／建前、表／裏、外／内. The keyword being ‘surface.’ On the surface, Mr. and Mrs. Saka-moto look very happy (i.e. they are not screaming at each other in the street), they have the required house, the required car, their required children go to the required school, he has a required job with a required company whilst she stays at home (as required) and does required tasks. All of these are required cues, props and elements of the narrative called ‘A typical Japanese life.’ As long as no-one does anything to rock the boat, all will be well.
So, if Mr. S. decided he wants to get some extra-marital action then that is FINE, so long as HE GOES TO A PROFESSIONAL! ← There lies your mistaken understanding. If Mr. S goes to 風俗 and fucks some unknown whore he will then go back to his household afterwards, take a bath, eat his nutritious dinner with his can of beer, watch TV and then go to bed in his separate bed. Now… if the same Mr. S. was fucking a girl at the office and things got out of hand, he could loose his job (rare), but certainly loose his standing (Americans like to mistakenly misuse the passé Chinese concept of ‘face’ here). Not because he was fucking someone else BUT because he couldn’t keep the mask of decency on, because he revealed his 本音 to the world and had not mastered the art of 建前. Imagine Mr. S. gets the OL he has been porking, pregnant and she shows up at the family home and bangs the door and airs her dirty laundry in public… BIG problem. The neighbours would have a field day, all previous social rankings in the neighbourhood would have to be reorganised with Mrs. S being relegated, the kids might then feel some pressure and so it would continue down.
SO… Japanese men are ENCOURAGED to take their itch to a PROFESSIONAL because professionals don’t cause trouble, don’t get pregnant and don’t come knockin’ at three in the a.m.
So what your mother-in-law was actually trying to tell you is go see a whore, just don’t start an extra-marital affair that i) Could end up on the doorstep or worse ii) Could make you fall in love and thereby see the head of the household transfer his loyalty (and his cash) to another woman, leaving the first family blowing in the wind. Now Japanese women have got more savvy when it comes to divorce settlements but STILL, what the hell is some forty year-old mother of two realistically going to do if her hubby drops he in favour of some new bit of fluff?
I’m wondering, for those of you who are married and in miserable relationships with Japanese women- do you wish that you just weren’t married at all? If given a choice, would you rather be completely unmarried or do you just wish that you could be married to a woman from your home country?
Also, I’m not sure if this question has been covered before or not, but do you think that these Japanese wives are happy? Since they are generally cold and not affectionate, do you think they are living out what their ideal marriage is and that this is just the way that it is for them?
This is a fascinating topic… depressing, but fascinating…
My Japanese female friend said to me, “I have no desire and have not wanted to have sex since the birth of our child. It is too much trouble.”
Hmm…….I wonder if her husband feels the same way! If not, poor guy. She seems happy enough with the marriage though. As for him, I don’t know. She treats him like crap from what I have heard……..and I feel sorry for him. What’s a man to do when he finds out the woman he married……is not at all what she presented herself to him as?! Have an affair, get caught on purpose, quick divorce? Hmmmm…
I do often feel roving eyes though, when at my daughter’s school on a day when lots of fathers come. So obviously some men are not getting it on at home and starting to even look desperate.
Honestly, this is the longest thread I have ever bothered to read every entry for. This is also the first time in my trolling career I have ever cared to reply to a board of any kind at this length.
Having said that, I’d like to give a brief biography of my relationship with a Japanese woman (initial romance in early 1990’s Boston) and the long and frustrating odyssey that has followed. I tell my tale seeking neither pity nor approval: just like everyone else here, I’m just trying to figure it out.
Background: I met my J-wife 16 years ago in Boston. I was a TA (Teaching Assistant) at a reputable university and she was an entry level student. She came to my office hours enough that someone else pointed out she might like me ( I was clueless). Feeling terribly privileged due to the power dynamic of the relationship, I waited until after the semester to ask her out. She said yes, we dated and lived together and eventually her visa ran out. She proposed to me and I said no on the grounds immigration status was not a good reason to get married. I sometimes regret that decision. She moved back to Japan for 3 years and we reunited on the west coast u.s.a. in 2002. We say each other around the world every six months in the intrim (Mexico, Paris, Iceland).
Fast forward a decade: At this point I am writing ghost papers for her MA degree while teaching 5 classes at university and driving her everywhere because she can’t pass the license test. Anyway, right before graduation from school she got pregnant with our first child. She stayed at home for a year or so after the birth of our child (failing all of her certification exams to be qualified to work during that period- 4 times total in the process). She suggested we have a second child and surprisingly within a 2 month window of attempts, we were on our way to child number 2. When I look at that now, I feel like my reckless “we’ll work it out attitude” signed my death warrant. Think about that; young J-loving men reading this.
Present day (1.5 years later): Still waiting for sex. Now I’m not a patient man but come on…. really? Yeah we all age, change, grow differently, etc. but seriously. The thread I pick up on here and identify with is the lack of connection between the physical act of sex and the bond it creates. It feels like my wife thinks sex is like taking out the trash or folding the clothes which makes me thank god for internet porn. Without it, I’d be an adulterer. With it, I am just a creepy man…lol.
In our history, my wife was wild sexually before marriage because it was like having sex with a shark. Those eyes were empty. I guess I should have known my Judeo-Christian background wasn’t going to change her heart but her lack of religious compass or particular belief led me to think a little Jesus and we were golden.
Moving from religion, I never thought a husband could be put in the “Friendzone” but I am living proof it can happen. But by friend, I mean the bitch boy who has to listen to her inane chatter while refilling her beer and not complaining about the nato.
Turning a little darker, perhaps the most detrimental thing to our relationship is that reason and logic make no difference in the discussion. As many people probably realize “you can’t argue with stupid” so despite bending over backwards to be culturally sensitive, gender neutral and generally positive, the sheer irritation I feel when I hear the illogical minutia she has to offer chills me to the bone. I thought we would grow together but after 15 years we’re talking about Tom Cruise’s divorce like it means something to her personally. Not a casual comment but a 20 minute monolog. Unfortunately I think that this is her attempt to adapt to the culture. So hollow it hurts but she dismisses my advances with regard to talking about issues locally, nationally, internationally that may actually be relevant to our experiences. I’m not talking to her as an educator but rather as an opinion seeker. She’d rather not.
Update: She and my two children have been away in Japan for the last 7 weeks. My initial interest in this post/thread/board was to try to figure out how to “restart the fire” so to speak. I feel a great sense of relief that there are other people out there with broadly the same issues. For many years now my lack of intimacy (emotional, intellectual, sexual) have been explained to me by my J-wife that I am responsible. I had that “Sunk Loss” epiphany coming here. Am I a fool? After seeing this thread, I’ve been a goddamn jackass. Holla if ya’ hear me.
-Dr. M.
I hear you Dr_M. Long ago in this thread someone mentioned that this topic’s usefulness had long since come to an end. You (and others recently) have proved this fool wrong.
You talk about Tom Cruise’s divorce? Me? The latest bit of gossip from the Kardashian clan. I smile and pretend to be engaged in the topic but I care fuck all … Your Japanese family away in Japan for 7 weeks? Mine too. Having a wonderful time I hear and don’t want to return. You have heard the refrain that you and you alone are responsible for the state of your marriage? Me too. While I pay all the bills, do all the gardening, do all the heavy housework with my wife bitching during commercial breaks during “Keeping Up With the Kardashians.”
She says I am boring. Could it be I am often too busy (and tired) to be the fascinating man she says she desires. When I explain that a little help around the house to free me up and allow us to spend more time together I get only silence. The housework issue should have been my red flag: it has been with us since the first days of our almost 17 year marriage. A Japanese WW2 veteran long ago told me I had to be firm with my wife and simply lay it out: you WILL help out – this is NON-negotiable. I took his advice and it worked, for a while but things returned to *normal* when my American conditioning kicked back in.
Dr. M and Kayumochi, I hear you both loud and clear… I have more free time these days and reading this thread is therapeutic in the sense that I can relate to others who share the same issues as me, BUT it’s so damn depresssing 🙁 … Like Kayumochi, my red flag was the housework issue. I should of known better and not listened to my father who was adamant that women are born twice (after confiding with him on the housework issue): when they are born and after they give birth! There was no upside after giving birth to 2 boys, I feel like a care giver to 3 kids! I tried hard to “restart the fire”, but no luck, I’ve given up. I get blank stares when I explain to her what’s lacking in our relationship. Sounds like cliche, but I can’t just walk out and leave because I love my kids tooo much! Funny thing is I went to see a marriage counsellor and he is afraid to get back to me I think because of all the shit I need to deal with.. I only have myself to blame, period.. I hope to read a turnaround story on this thread filled with hope, not despair..
I have been in ROM mode, reading all of your posts for several years now.
As someone with a J girl, who some day I hoped to marry, I am getting a little desperate.
I understand that people who have a great relationship with a J girl probably never land on this page (a friend of mine sent me the link, with the comment, “watch out!” some years back), but is there anyone at all, just one of you who may know just one couple where it all went well? Does anyone have a story that may refute any of the above? Cant it work? What are my chances? (I assume slim at best, I’m depressed…)
@JustWoonderin,
John & Yoko?
Think I have mentioned b4 that it seems to me that foreign woman/Japanese man marriages tend to be more successful. Why is that do you think?
But what is successful? My good friend living in NZ married to an Englishwoman just got divorced after 15 years of marriage (with 3 kids). According to him she is a miserable, unhappy cunt who cut him off from sex for 5 years. Makes my marriage look like pure bliss …
Don’t want to give the impression that my marriage is always an unhappy one. it is not. The happy times outweigh the unhappy ones. I love my wife. I love my daughter. I want it all to work out and sometimes I think it will.
@Curious,
I get that bit about being born twice. Thing is, after a while most non-Japanese men don’t want to be married to a child any longer.
I first posted message #500 although have been following it earlier than that, and so I figure I might as well post an update for message #1000.
Since the last update, I started working fulltime for a company instead of for myself, and have taken a trip on business by myself and we went to Japan as a family for a couple of weeks so counseling with the sex positive therapist has been put on hold for over a month now.
I feel that compared to before visiting the counselor our relationship is better, not great, but not horrendous as it was before, and same with sex, although it’s slowed down somewhat. Maybe around once per week. She does not initiate, but does not refuse either. A while ago I asked her what position she’d like to do, and she said standing up. Great, something new I thought, and it was great. Except now that’s the only position she wants. Literally every time over the past couple of months has been standing up. On the one hand it’s great we’re intimate, on the other hand, the lack of creativity/effort is annoying. She doesn’t wear lingerie, she always closes her eyes while doing it. She never says anything. She gets wet so I know she feels something, but it’s kind of like that dead fish thing again. Obviously her priority is to the kids and nothing more.
I feel as if culturally and emotionally, despite me loving certain aspects of Japanese society and culture, as well as physically, I have very little in common with her. I believe I ultimately got married too young, and despite not realizing it, was too immature to get married at the time. Meanwhile, 16 years, a house and 2 kids later, and it’s become too hard to leave. Things have stabilized compared to before, and for that I’m happy, but it’s still disappointing in general.
I have started going to the gym more regularly now, and the differences I see with American women with whom I work out with are huge. Conversations, attitude, and day-to-day lifestyle are so different from my wife it’s really quite amazing. Maybe these women are nightmares to deal with at home, but I sense that there’s something about Japanese women that annoy the hell out of me. If I had another chance there is no way I would have married a Japanese woman, and for that matter a foreigner. Life might have been much easier marrying a nice American girl rather than a supposedly ‘nice’ Japanese one.
Can we, through more counseling, ultimately work things out? I’m going to keep trying, but I obviously have my doubts.